List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[Dylan12]

Complete off-season rating: C+

I'd probably rank it a C or C-, particularly the staff hits. As you said, time will tell, it hasn't been a disaster, but a lot of top 4 clubs in recent years have had much better off-seasons, both on and off the field than we have given we lost a couple of gun employees, had a poor draft (based on the hand we dealt and created for ourselves) and IMO, a poor trade period with who we brought in (again, agree with your assessment that they either boom or bust), but time will tell.

 

[Dalions]

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

Are you sure Blake Coleman and Maurice Rioli are not the same person?

 

[Dylan12]

 

[briztoon]

What did he say; I see neither Heath or Walsh were rookied? Surprised that he wasn't taken. I must admit, I am disappointed we took Smith over Heath and even Walsh.

Also, Cedric Cox

20

Cedric Cox

Age

27

Ht

183cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.8

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.2

2star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.2

3star

failed to land a gig at Freo or West Coast either, which personally surprised me. It will be interesting if he gives the WAFL a red hot crack with a hope of being drafted mid season or next year. No idea whether Corey Lyons or Toby Wooller nominated, but they too have been passed over.

It’s possible one or both of Freo and WC still have lists spots available, that they can fill during the SSP or at the mid season draft.

Cox could be one of three or four players to train with WC during the preseason, and they can make a call about whether to sign one of them before the SSP window closes.

 

[Dylan12]

It’s possible one or both of Freo and WC still have lists spots available, that they can fill during the SSP or at the mid season draft.

Cox could be one of three or four players to train with WC during the preseason, and they can make a call about whether to sign one of them before the SSP window closes.

Completely forgot about that.

It is so hard keeping up with when all clubs lists are finalised. It used to be the conclusion of the rookie draft, but now there is the SSP window.

 

[Dylan12]

Blake certainly looks a lot more solidly built that Keidean.

Would that be a fair assessment?

From the limited vision, he looks like a bull of a lad.

 

[briztoon]

What did he say; I see neither Heath or Walsh were rookied? Surprised that he wasn't taken. I must admit, I am disappointed we took Smith over Heath and even Walsh.

Basically that his rate of improvement over the off season astonished everyone, he looked very good in the preseason match, and that the Vic Metro coach had penciled Heath in as the Vic Metro ruck off that one game.

Clunking contested marks up forward, bullying his opposition in the ruck, strong contested follow up work after the rucking contest. Neat skills around the ground. Needs to work on his endurance.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Was this also the case with Shannon Neale in the WAFL?

Yes, he played Colts all year.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I actually didn't think it was possible but 2020 has made the "insights" of so called draft pundits in the media and on social media even less compelling and relevant than than I already perceived them to be. As usual they will dine out on their calls that pan out and remain utterly silent about their bad calls.

I have no compelling evidence that gives me any strong inclination other than to back in the judgement of our list management personnel.

Welcome to our four new Lions Go well.

My only concern is how many players we can carry in our backline who have interchangeable first and last names.

 

[dlanod]

Hmmm the Suns kids were listed in the rookie draft as academy preselections, wonder why Carter Michael wasn’t.

GC has special concessions at the moment where they can preselect players on to their rookie list even before the national draft.

myGoldCoast

The Gold Coast's Best Music Variety

www.mygc.com.au

Carter would be under the normal academy rules, so no surprise they're listed differently as if one takes a draft slot and the other just happens.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Are you sure Blake Coleman and Maurice Rioli are not the same person?
View attachment 1025974View attachment 1025973

Nah Blake's a lot happier.

 

[briztoon]

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

Knightmare got shown up as a bit of a fraud this year.

He admitted to not watching most of the underage football this year, didn’t know the NEAFL was canned.

Yet was answering people’s questions about players he hadn’t watched all year.

Claims he doesn’t read other people’s or media’s work, yet a lot of his stuff was clearly lifted from AFL Draft Central and eDPS’s thread. Especially when he would start talking up a player just days after ADC or Ed highlighted the player and wrote about them.

His comments and profile about Blake Coleman are lifted directly from me, from my comments on his thread much earlier in the year.

He has watched kids in the past, and has his own unique insights and rating system, but he didn’t keep up with changes made by the AFL this year, in the one year it was much easier to do so as there was little U18 football for him to watch live.

He’s genuinely the last “draft watcher” I read these days, and often I don’t.

 

[Dylan12]

GC has special concessions at the moment where they can preselect players on to their rookie list even before the national draft.

myGoldCoast

The Gold Coast's Best Music Variety

www.mygc.com.au

Carter would be under the normal academy rules, so no surprise they're listed differently as if one takes a draft slot and the other just happens.

Why am I not surprised the AFL''s "darling child" Gold Coast Suns have "special concessions" that no other club is afforded.

The AFL really will stop at nothing to continue to give them advantages that every other club could only dream about.

 

[spotthedog1]

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

Yep. I gave us a C+.

They lost Markov, Higgins, and got Geelong's first. I don't think they've gone forwards either. Without really considering it as much as I considered ours, I'd have them at a C to C+ as well.

I really wanted us to try to get hold of Collingwood's though. They really seem primed for an implosion.

 

[M Malice]

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

I found that strange as well, I have asked the question of Chris on his draft board, will be interesting to see the response.

 

[JasRulz63]

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

Given his talking up of Ballenden in the last month or two, surprised we didn't get an A purely just for keeping him on our list.

 

[Royboy1961]

Blake Coleman- No brainer to match the bid from Collingwood, needs to work on his endurance, can't have enough quick, nippy, x factor type players.

Harry Sharp- Will immediately set an elite standard in the off season fitness drills, listed as 183cm and a feather weight at 69kg, will need some slow steady gym work over the next few years. I'm looking forward to getting down to some training sessions to see how long J.Berry and Clugga can go with him, fills a need on the wing if he develops well.

Henry Smith- I had never heard of him but looks quite nimble for a big man and takes a good contested mark, also looks a decent kick albeit the 2 minute highlight package is all I have seen of him.

I don't expect any of the 3 to get a senior shot in 2021.

Great pick ups by the Lions. I was surprised at some of the players that were drafted this year as there were quite a few speculative picks made by other clubs. Usually atleast 60% of the players are Victorians and you could see by the players drafted the recruiters made many selections on potential or athletic abilities. We knew that Coleman was a wanted player so no surprise their. Sharp is well worth a punt in the 40s and is exactly the type of player we need in the future on the wing. It will be interesting how his football ability develops under full time development. Smith I was surprised about as I thought Heath and Walker were more highly regarded. But having a look at his biography he looks more like a forward/ruck than a pure ruckman. This will give him more versatility in the future. He seems to have a good marking technique as he marks the ball at the highest point and seems to have a good kicking technique which are both big pluses for a big man. Apparently his second efforts in the ruck are a feature which is also exactly what you want from a ruckman.

 

[JasRulz63]

For me I think we didn't have any glaring needs to fill so we took some high risk high reward types. The cost was pretty low in a very speculative draft so we did not have a lot to lose anyway. Apart from Coleman they were not the names I was hoping for but overall I thought the guys taken on paper look worth the picks.

I agree. Throw in Carter Michael as a half back flanker which fills a bit of a gap considering the three we lost over the off-season.

Essentially apart from Coleman we took players that were speculative, but if they develop they will fit a role in the side (athletic wing, development ruck, HBF with good disposal).

 

[BuntonRules]

I hope Keidean can get his fitness up to be a high half forward. Seems better suited setting up the play rather than finishing

IMO he has the tools to be a gun half back, in the McLeod mould.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Yep. I gave us a C+.

They lost Markov, Higgins, and got Geelong's first. I don't think they've gone forwards either. Without really considering it as much as I considered ours, I'd have them at a C to C+ as well.

I really wanted us to try to get hold of Collingwood's though. They really seem primed for an implosion.

And consider also that whilst Richmond got Geelong's 2021 1st rounder, we got Melbourne's. I know which I'd rather be death riding.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Yep. I gave us a C+.

They lost Markov, Higgins, and got Geelong's first. I don't think they've gone forwards either. Without really considering it as much as I considered ours, I'd have them at a C to C+ as well.

I really wanted us to try to get hold of Collingwood's though. They really seem primed for an implosion.

In fairness, his rating was based solely on drafting I think, not trades as well. But even if you include trades we clearly did better than Richmond.

 

[pulpdriver]

I'm not sure what we were even supposed to do to improve our draft with the hand we entered it holding. Ideally we would have had a pick before the Coleman bid but that's hardly in our control and one team seemingly went out of their way, perhaps maliciously or because they genuinely thought we wouldn't match at that point, to bid on him. After that we did what we could to improve our later picks and took two development prospects. Not particularly exciting but that's to be expected as a finals calibre team. Don't think too many finals teams are aiming to instantly improve their 22 for the following year using the draft.

 

[jjami15]

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

When I first came to BF I read every word but now I don’t even go to his thread.

 

[blueiris]

it really is interesting how much the AFL favours the Suns Imagine if the Lions could have pre-listed Coleman and Michael before the draft

 

[Quigley]

it really is interesting how much the AFL favours the Suns Imagine if the Lions could have pre-listed Coleman and Michael before the draft

In fairness they let them wallow for quite a few years before they actually did anything. They got a big leg up last year but they just could not hang onto players year after year. Those concessions finish this year so we should be back onto a similar playing field next year.