List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[Big Red is back]

As I said, it's only the ones that don't realize it is the folks money that turn into dickheads.
My daughter is at a public school, I went to an alternative private school. Half of my friends are from public stock, the other half from private and you would not be able to tell the difference. The only people that care about that sh*t once school ends are the elitest scum at the private end and the jelous scum at the public end.

You appear to be carrying a lot of issues.

 

[Lace_Out]

Hanging on to the info coming through and trying to make sense of it, wheat from chaff etc. Will go on record as saying Saad would add an element we
are lacking, but I am not in favour of selling the farm for it. Our mooted offer is already "overs" and bordering on lazy desperation. It is not overly difficult
to identify a running rebounder through state leagues, the draft or a judicious reallocation of resources. Philp for instance could potentially be redeployed as
a running defender.

I am sweating on Polson being delisted. I liked his package in the draft shorts, and have always commended his endeavour. Viewing through games and limited viewing at multiple Qld training camps shows his skills and composure to be sub standard for anything bar a fringe player. List sizes are now reducing, even if
slightly and he is not a long termer. Kemp or Stocker while developing bring much more to the side and more importantly the future.

Also, I respect the potential/ability of Macreadie, but if he is not over his issues NOW must be jetisoned. No hail Mary, last man standing defensive option please, and please no holding Moore as break glass, poor man's Levi.

The problem with identifying a running defender from outside the AFL is not knowing if he can handle the tempo, odds on they will not.

Saad we know can and thrive to boot.. importantly giving us what we need without a doubt. Will also help lift the standard at training like Martin, the guys a workhorse.

I'm happy to pay more for that.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Don't think he saw much in them.. like I said we paid **** all (in terms of trade capital) for these players apart from Smedts.

With the Tuohy trade the Cats didn't have any solid draft picks to give us and out of their players, Smedts was really the only one they were willing to offer up. Tuohy wanted out and unfortunately for us, he chose the Cats.

Tom Bell chose Brisbane... helped us get Charlie.

Win some, lose some.

But why go for them ahead of guys like Gibbons for example. I’m sure he thought they might play a role and hopefully find a Butler or Lyon type for cheap instead, it’s not like he was chasing crap cheap players instead of handy cheap players.
as you say they were cheap so haven’t cost us much but he obviously didn’t find as much value as he would’ve liked. Wright was probably his best get.

 

[skadoosh]

I am mates with a guy that also works with Saad's dad. He said to me last week that his dad says he loves playing with Essendon and expects him to stay.

So...grain of salt indeed!!!

Aphrodite, can you please have a quiet word with Saad's dad?

 

[BlueJet]

Sos' management of our list isn't beyond question.
He made some great moves but also some highly questionable ones - just how good a job he's done will be proven in time.

 

[DangerousD]

Ok, looks like you've got an agenda here.

Why does someone who thinks SOS did a bad job, have an agenda? The poster listed in very simple terms a long list of olayers brought in, who have been poor.

Now, someone can put their hindsight helmet on and say that 2017 2nd we could've drafted Tim Kelly, Ryan or Fritsch just remember, every club passed on these players and let's be honest that 2017 draft has not yielded a lot of quality compared to other drafts...

Hindsight helmet, of course, how else do you judge recruiters, if not by looking back at the selections they made. You only know if they made the right call 3-5 years later.

Now, remember, SOS had to delist a lot of other duds picked up before he was even there and had to fill list spots. Although not great, this was a reasonable trade return.

SOS didn’t have to get rid of those blokes, he chose to do it, he did it and brought in guys who were continuously no better, with some being much worse.

 

[skadoosh]

True about Saad or true about the poster only having 3 posts? Aha

I was going to ask for clarification...but didn't want to know the truth

 

[Gethelred]

Richmond had a lot of success with their drafting from 2010-2015
they won a premiership two seasons after they drafted all these duds
Reece Conca
Jake Batchelor
Dean MacDonald
Tom Derickx
Steven Morris
Todd Elton
Matthew Arnot
Liam McBean
Matthew McDonough
Ricky Petterd
Orren Stephenson
Sam Lonergan
Cadeyn Williams
Shaun Hampson
Ben Lennon
Nathan Gordon
Sam Lloyd
Todd Banfield
Anthony Miles
Matt Thomas
Taylor Hunt
Connor Menadue
Nathan Drummond
Reece McKenzie
Corey Ellis

Could go through every team and do this
So what is your point ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Lonergan

Your problem is they traded for a few of those players too.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Dad has been saying for the past week he’s son is coming to us..but no confirmation as yet..

You're confusing me with the double dots It might be too early in the morning for me.

Sounds like there's some mind games going on in the background of negotiations. Ahhh, the joy of AFL trade period

Not sure whether to read the post as it is or whether there's something else to be said

 

[HARKER]

For the record, my mate is a pies guy, loves seeing the blues struggle and enjoys seeing my hopes for success evaporate during the season and in the trade/free agent period as our targets select other clubs. We are also acquaintances with a coach at Essendon - so I think he's hoping for that friend (who is a very good bloke) that his job isn't made harder due to a quality player leaving.
I did comment to my bud 'if he loves the bombers so much, why hasn't he signed yet?'

It could all be a ploy but that North poster did say 'This morning'

When did you hear last?

 

[jimsta10]

I work with Saad’s Dad and he told me this morning he will be wearing navy blue next season

From the Adam Saad thread. Grain of salt?

Our new ITK poster. Pls don’t scare this one off to the nut house.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Why does someone who thinks SOS did a bad job, have an agenda? The poster listed in very simple terms a long list of olayers brought in, who have been poor.

Having a go at drafting private school boys???

And the fact that you could pretty much compile a list like that for every recruiter?

Hindsight helmet, of course, how else do you judge recruiters, if not by looking back at the selections they made. You only know if they made the right call 3-5 years later.

It's a lot easier to pick out the players that he should've drafted years after the draft isn't it? The point is, every recruiter passed on these players. If SOS should've held onto another 2nd round pick in 2017 draft then we wouldn't have got Marchbank.

The 2nd rounder he did have he drafted TDK...

SOS didn’t have to get rid of those blokes, he chose to do it, he did it and brought in guys who were continuously no better, with some being much worse.

The difference is, those players he delisted had already proven they weren't working for Carlton... the ones he brought in all had potential to lift or just be stop gaps with older bodies to let the kids mature.

Point is, would we have been better off had we kept the players SOS delisted vs the duds he brought in? To me, it's a pointless argument. They all cost next to nothing and none of them would have made a difference anyway...

If you want to say he couldn't pick out a gem from the rubble then that's fine... he's not the first and won't be the last list manager to do so. But he did for the most part construct the list by getting gun KPP players and pulled off smart trades as well.

 

[Eiffel 65]

I work with Saad’s Dad and he told me this morning he will be wearing navy blue next season

From the Adam Saad thread. Grain of salt?

The definition of random posting:

1 post in Alex Morgan delisting thread.
1 post in random North v South thread.
1 post in a betting thread.
1 post in Adam Saad thread.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

But why go for them ahead of guys like Gibbons for example. I’m sure he thought they might play a role and hopefully find a Butler or Lyon type for cheap instead, it’s not like he was chasing crap cheap players instead of handy cheap players.
as you say they were cheap so haven’t cost us much but he obviously didn’t find as much value as he would’ve liked. Wright was probably his best get.

While this is true, you could say the same for almost every other recruiter when it comes to those types of trades.

But would you label SOS a terrible recruiter because of those?

They were nothing, low risk trades and bear little significance to the overall list that he built.

 

[Curnivore]

You appear to be carrying a lot of issues.

An absolute ton, none of which have anything to do with my schooling. Any 25 year old + that still bases there highschool education or achievements as a part of there identity is an absolute loser.

 

[RPCB]

I work with Saad’s Dad and he told me this morning he will be wearing navy blue next season

From the Adam Saad thread. Grain of salt?

I thought you were saying that you work with Adam Saad‘s dad and was about to ask you why you couldn’t tell us this information sooner.

 

[Macca43]

The definition of random posting:

1 post in Alex Morgan delisting thread.
1 post in random North v South thread.
1 post in a betting thread.
1 post in Adam Saad thread.

Perhaps they are a devotee of Ghandi:

"Only speak when it improves the silence"

 

[djw1952]

Hanging on to the info coming through and trying to make sense of it, wheat from chaff etc. Will go on record as saying Saad would add an element we
are lacking, but I am not in favour of selling the farm for it. Our mooted offer is already "overs" and bordering on lazy desperation. It is not overly difficult
to identify a running rebounder through state leagues, the draft or a judicious reallocation of resources. Philp for instance could potentially be redeployed as
a running defender.

I am sweating on Polson being delisted. I liked his package in the draft shorts, and have always commended his endeavour. Viewing through games and limited viewing at multiple Qld training camps shows his skills and composure to be sub standard for anything bar a fringe player. List sizes are now reducing, even if
slightly and he is not a long termer. Kemp or Stocker while developing bring much more to the side and more importantly the future.

Also, I respect the potential/ability of Macreadie, but if he is not over his issues NOW must be jetisoned. No hail Mary, last man standing defensive option please, and please no holding Moore as break glass, poor man's Levi.

I know Macreadie has had injuries but who steps up to play defence for us if Weitering or Jones gets injured.............hang onto him I would say, unless he is completely lame as far as his injuries go...........

 

[BlueJet]

While this is true, you could say the same for almost every other recruiter when it comes to those types of trades.

But would you label SOS a terrible recruiter because of those?

They were nothing, low risk trades and bear little significance to the overall list that he built.

I wouldn't label him terrible nor would I act as if he's infallible and look to explain away any missteps along the way either (which is not directed at you BF).
Some posters are rapt with his work, some think he did a solid job while others don't rate him - each is an acceptable perspective at present given we have no idea exactly what we're working with.
Do Dow & DC become our gun explosive mids?
Does LOB become our Lambert/Isaac Smith?
Does the penny drop for Kennedy & McGov?
Does SPS lift his intensity & become the player we know that he's capable of becoming?

 

[Magruder]

B70 posted on the NO Discussion thread

If anyone could get away with it...

 

[CashCow3053]

All I get from that list is how bloody hard it is to find a Dan Butler type pick up which everyone wants/expects us to find.

Dan Butler was there for the taking and wanted to play at Carlton.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

While this is true, you could say the same for almost every other recruiter when it comes to those types of trades.

But would you label SOS a terrible recruiter because of those?

They were nothing, low risk trades and bear little significance to the overall list that he built.

I think he done a very good job I just don’t think he is any better then most others. I think his record of recycled players is probably as bad as anyone’s. Looking at what he was going to give up for Tomlinson and pay Shiel and Cogs we have probably dodged a few bullets too.
As I said though I think he has done a good job and was the right man for the job at the time we got him. If it’s true though that he is stubborn/pig headed, doesn’t take advice then I don’t think he is anywhere near good enough at identifying talent for him to continue the job.

 

[CashCow3053]

Ok, looks like you've got an agenda here...

Let's actually dissect what each of these actually cost:

Smedts + 2017 1st ( traded for Marchbank, Pickett, Macreadie (#47), Williamson (#61), Kerr (#65) ) ->
Tuohy + 2017 2nd (drafted Fogarty)

Now, someone can put their hindsight helmet on and say that 2017 2nd we could've drafted Tim Kelly, Ryan or Fritsch just remember, every club passed on these players and let's be honest that 2017 draft has not yielded a lot of quality compared to other drafts...

Now, remember, SOS had to delist a lot of other duds picked up before he was even there and had to fill list spots. Although not great, this was a reasonable trade return.

Rhys Palmer -> pick #135

Come on.. as if we could've done anything with that pick anyway... it was a free hit

Cam Polson -> pick #59

Ok, you tell me who we should've drafted instead?

Kim Lebois, Andrew Galluci and Alex Silvagni

Taken in a rookie draft... who else should we have picked? BTW Alex was not a dud, he was just injury prone... had great closing speed and was hard at it.

Kerridge + pick #28 -> Menzel

Lamb + Sumner + Phillips + Plowman + pick #8 (Harry McKay) ->
pick #28 (North ended up with it and drafted Mitchell Hibberd) + #77 + #95 + 2016 first rounder (from Geelong for Henderson ended up with Lions, drafted Berry)

So, we drafted Harry and brought in Plowman with basically the cost of potentially drafting Berry...
Kerridge, Lamb, Sumner and Phillips were just top ups with potential but essentially cost us **** all...

Jesse Glass-McCasker + Matthew Korcheck

Rookie draft... let's see we could've drafted Papley right

Matthew Lobbe -> pick #95

Oh yeah that pick #95 was wasted...

Darcy Lang + 2018 4th rounder -> pick #58 + 2018 4th rounder

This is again a nothing trade using late draft picks where Lang could've come good but didn't...no real loss here

Aaron Mullet

A delisted free agent who was always only a temp pick up as an older body

Angus Schumacher + Jarrod Garlett -> picks #70 + #78

Pick #70 and #78... another huge waste there...

Cam O'Shea

A pre-season draft pick....

Matt Shaw

A rookie draft pick....

Alex Fasolo

An unrestricted free agent...

Finbar O'Dwyer + Ben Silvagni -> picks #66 + #70

Again... these were nothing draft picks...

Hugh Goddard + Tom Bugg

Another couple of rookie draft picks...

Callum Moore

Taken in a pre-season supplementary draft..

Matthew Wright + Daniel Gorringe

Delisted free agents...

Leaves us with:

Mitch McGovern

I agree he ****** up there...

LoB

Jury is still out.. not looking good though

Kennedy

Been serviceable, hasn't set the world on fire though..

Conclusion:

So, short of expecting SOS to pick diamonds out of the rough with a bunch of late picks and rookie selections what he HELL else could he have done?

Out of that whole list you chalked up, potentially three players have cost us more than their worth...

He was tasked with turning over one of the worst lists in the history of the comp... we now have so much talent on every line just going to take time, good coaching and development...

The job's over to Austin now and he is to identify the holes and recruit proven gun players to fill them... Williams is an A grader and has nominated us...

Stay tuned...

list cloggers and duds! Where did it get us? ... Terrible strategy, that cost us 2-3 years of misery.

 

[CashCow3053]

Real shame about ASOS’ injuries. I was at the game when he gave Buddy a bath. He could play but his body wasn’t reliable.

mature rookie dud

 

[CashCow3053]

Most of those names were low/rookie picks and salary dumps. You need to factor in the dire shape of the playing list when he took over from Rogers, the worst recruiter in draft history. The list is in good shape now, with a few gaps to fill. Overall, SOS did a very good job of it.

Did a very good job?... he did an average job the results speak for themselves