List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Blue_Fusion]

So you think giving the swans 2 x 1sts is the right thing to do?

We aren't wanting to hit the draft but we wont just burn picks for the sake of it.

We have progressed so much in 2 years and yet people want it to be faster, I don't get it. We have gone from (% wise):
- 2018: 59.3%
- 2019: 84.5%
- 2020: currently 97%
The improvement has been great and as of next year, the kids excuse is no longer.

I would be happy to walk away from any deal which could really hurt the club by overselling. Yes the future is now, but sustained success is far more important.

I'm a fan of Papley and believe our 2020 1st is all he is worth.

If we walked away from this trade period adding Williams, Graham, Witherden and Caldwell and still hold onto our 1st, Would it not be an extremely good outcome? I'd be very happy if our 1st was used in the draft.

Let's face it, if you think we should be winning a premiership in 2021, you are setting yourself up for failure. We are a year off and that's due to the rebuild/reset we have taken. The plan was always go hard at the draft for 4 years (done). Keep our options open and draft or trade for people that will make us a better team to ensure sustained success (doing).

This was always going to be a 7 year process (as mentioned by Andy Maher in 2019 on "The Carlton Show" podcast).

The list we have built is solid. A few cracks, but overall, a very solid outfit that has required growth, leadership and patience.

It's now time to enjoy the fruits and make decisions that will continue to strengthen our team all across the park, not just in one area (Because there are more than just 1 crack).

What could we trade to acquire these 3 without giving up our 2020 or 2021 1st?

I don't think anyone expects a premiership next year.. well maybe some delusional supporters...

Papley's last 2 months would certainly drop his value. It would also depend on how badly he wants to become a Carlton player. I can't see the Swans hanging onto him if he asks for a trade to us again. History shows that players generally get to where they want to go. Not 2 firsts though. Had Papley kept his output from the first half of the season going, then you'd see why the Swans would want 2 firsts but as I said, his last 2 months they can't realistically expect that.

 

[Thehurdle]

On Dow and SPS

We drafted these guy's as midfielder and under Bolton he played them in the midfield over Murphy and Ed. When Teague took over he moved SPS to defence and Dow forward and Murphy and Ed into the midfield and we looked instantly better. But now Cripps looks injured, Murphy looks slow, Ed looks tired. We rotate the lest amount of player though the centre bounce than any other team. With Cripps, Setterfield and Ed taking the most and then either Murphy or Martin to back them up. We lack run and flare out of the midfield. Both SPS and Dow add that to our team. We also have player like Cuningham who had his best game ever this year as a full time mid. Gibbons won 2 Liston trophies as a midfielder. We need to rotate more players through the midfield to give them an opportunity to learn and develop or when Murphy and Ed hang up the boots, we'll have to start another rebuild.

Walsh and Cuningham also had some time in the middle against the Swans. Walsh in particular looked good. Interesting that he has grown 4 cm since being drafted. Now stands at 188cm. If Dow doesn’t get much time in the middle it’s more likely due to Walsh than Teague.

 

[HARKER]

Let's face it, if you think we should be winning a premiership in 2021, you are setting yourself up for failure. We are a year off and that's due to the rebuild/reset we have taken. The plan was always go hard at the draft for 4 years (done). Keep our options open and draft or trade for people that will make us a better team to ensure sustained success (doing).

If the club isn't setting itself up to win a premiership in 2021, it is a failure.
Gain a couple of key players this year, get our guys fit and healthy and you just don't know should we get some continuity and a slice of luck with injury.

This year and its fallout has tipped many things around and we'd be smart to set ourselves up to take advantage of them.
Are we really that far behind Geelong? Brisbane? Port Adelaide? etc

This is a freak year for the obvious reason, but I feel that the club that gets its house in order best by years end, may surprise next year.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

If the club isn't setting itself up to win a premiership in 2021, it is a failure.
Gain a couple of key players this year, get our guys fit and healthy and you just don't know should we get some continuity and a slice of luck with injury.

This year and its fallout has tipped many things around and we'd be smart to set ourselves up to take advantage of them.
Are we really that far behind Geelong? Brisbane? Port Adelaide? etc

This is a freak year for the obvious reason, but I feel that the club that gets its house in order best by years end, may surprise next year.

There's a difference between saying we should win the flag next year to we could win the flag next year.

There's also no doubt we're looking to add a few key players this year.

 

[HARKER]

There's a difference between saying we should win the flag next year to we could win the flag next year.

There's also no doubt we're looking to add a few key players this year.

Huge difference but....the aim should be there starting right now.
Get all our ducks in order asap; Staffing, recruits, contracts, players' injury assessments and management etc etc.

i.e. Project ourselves as serious players in the industry and in our own back yard. The carrot has to be there for all.

 

[Arr0w]

So when does a rebuild finish. In my eyes it finishes in holding a cup. And starts again after. Is that too high of standards or are you just happy to get close.

Rebuild has finished, now it's adding the missing pieces, building experience and continuity in players and gameplan

If you manage the strategy appropriately you should never have to undertake a rebuild again, just look at WC

 

[HARKER]

Rebuild has finished, now it's adding the missing pieces, building experience and continuity in players and gameplan
If you manage the strategy appropriately you should never have to undertake a rebuild again, just look at WC

I don't think this competition allows any team to stay on top for an extended period of time, but the larger factor is that it's hard to 'refreshen' the list, when finals...and the possibility of a premiership still present.

Sydney and Hawthorn have come crashing down, West Coast did finish dead last in 2010 and Geelong may not be too far away from falling off the cliff, either.

The trick is to not lose focus and unravel all the good systems and protocols that were in place beforehand. This is not an easy task though.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Anyone get the chance to watch GWS last night? How did Williams go playing in the guts?

Hopefully our preoccupation with Papley has waned and we have set our sights out of contract B or C grade small forwards with potential. Think we have plenty of talent to develop from within this current playing group other than small crumbers with a nous for kicking goals.

 

[RPCB]

Rebuild has finished, now it's adding the missing pieces, building experience and continuity in players and gameplan

If you manage the strategy appropriately you should never have to undertake a rebuild again, just look at WC

Agree with you. A rebuild is when clubs play for and stockpile high draft picks. Carlton in 2021 with a healthy list and 2 or 3 key additions this year should be a top 6 side next year and only going stronger for years to come.

The ”rebuild” should come to an end the very next day after the FA and trade period this year and then 2021 and beyond, Carlton shouldn’t sniff a high draft pick for a very long time.

 

[Arr0w]

I don't think this competition allows any team to stay on top for an extended period of time, but the larger factor is that it's hard to 'refreshen' the list, when finals...and the possibility of a premiership still present.

Sydney and Hawthorn have come crashing down, West Coast did finish dead last in 2010 and Geelong may not be too far away from falling off the cliff, either.

The trick is to not lose focus and unravel all the good systems and protocols that were in place beforehand. This is not an easy task though.

Iirc WC had huge injuries that year, didn't take them long to bounce back

Swans won't take long to bounce back

North, Crows, Hawks, not so much

 

[Sector 7G]

Anyone get the chance to watch GWS last night? How did Williams go playing in the guts?

Hopefully our preoccupation with Papley has waned and we have set our sights out of contract B or C grade small forwards with potential. Think we have plenty of talent to develop from within this current playing group other than small crumbers with a nous for kicking goals.

Showed plenty of dash from what I saw.Will be a big loss if he leaves.

Made a massive mistake selling the farm for Cogs given they have plenty of cover for an inside mid that has never been an AA.

 

[HARKER]

West Coast finished: 15th - 2008.....11th - 2009.....Last - 2010, before jumping to 4th in 2011.

It makes for a very hard call to go into a rebuild mode, whilst being a middle table side.
How do you sell that notion to the executive? The board? The members?
What coach would want an exit of players he knew and trusted, for ones he has no idea about and has to build up from scratch?

North has no choice now but had a choice two years ago. I feel they waited a little too long.
Hawthorn is Hawthorn and they probably still feel they may not be too far away, if they reel in a couple of the right players. Interesting to see how they go.
Crows? There's something wrong there, beyond the list alone. Broken club and let's want them to stay broken, at least a week longer.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Rebuild has finished, now it's adding the missing pieces, building experience and continuity in players and gameplan

If you manage the strategy appropriately you should never have to undertake a rebuild again, just look at WC

Never have to undertake a rebuild again? I doubt that... eventually they will need to rebuild. This is an incredibly tough caper and even clubs that have the right people, management, processes etc. will still experience a point where their players get too old and need to be replaced. Sometimes they can get it right and replace them fairly quickly without bottoming out, but luck can only run so far.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

West Coast finished: 15th - 2008.....11th - 2009.....Last - 2010, before jumping to 4th in 2011.

It makes for a very hard call to go into a rebuild mode, whilst being a middle table side.
How do you sell that notion to the executive? The board? The members?
What coach would want an exit of players he knew and trusted, for ones he has no idea about and has to build up from scratch?

North has no choice now but had a choice two years ago. I feel they waited a little too long.
Hawthorn is Hawthorn and they probably still feel they may not be too far away, if they reel in a couple of the right players. Interesting to see how they go.
Crows? There's something wrong there, beyond the list alone. Broken club and let's want them to stay broken, at least a week longer.

I get the feeling that some things can tear at the heart and soul of a club and it takes a long time. A REALLY long time to climb back.

We experienced it, the junkies are experiencing it and the Crows are experiencing that now too. I'm tipping it's going to be a really long time before the Crows can claw their way back to being flag contenders.

 

[HARKER]

Never have to undertake a rebuild again? I doubt that... eventually they will need to rebuild. This is an incredibly tough caper and even clubs that have the right people, management, processes etc. will still experience a point where their players get too old and need to be replaced. Sometimes they can get it right and replace them fairly quickly without bottoming out, but luck can only run so far.

The fact is one would have to have an exceptionally amazing development department & List Management department to make good with your first pick being in the teens every year for a protracted period of time.

It's not only about who you'll draft but the currency you have to trade with....and then you have the salary cap.
The better the team, the more money that has to be assigned to players and players will choose to leave for better money/opportunity.

This 'competition' is designed to allow opportunity for all but that doesn't mean all can make it.
It's not the players that make for the best teams. It's the best planning and execution of that planning, that does.

 

[Arr0w]

Never have to undertake a rebuild again? I doubt that... eventually they will need to rebuild. This is an incredibly tough caper and even clubs that have the right people, management, processes etc. will still experience a point where their players get too old and need to be replaced. Sometimes they can get it right and replace them fairly quickly without bottoming out, but luck can only run so far.

Clubs hang on to older players to have one last crack, like the Cats now, which is understandable, but that's why you continue to embrace young talent to replenish the list

Clubs like WC have done this over many years, without having to rebuild

It's not impossible

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Clubs hang on to older players to have one last crack, like the Cats now, which is understandable, but that's why you continue to embrace young talent to replenish the list

Clubs like WC have done this over many years, without having to rebuild

It's not impossible

True.. but never is a long time...

Also, I'll add... there's a lot of luck involved with the Eagles list too.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The fact is one would have to have an exceptionally amazing development department & List Management department to make good with your first pick being in the teens every year for a protracted period of time.

It's not only about who you'll draft but the currency you have to trade with....and then you have the salary cap.
The better the team, the more money that has to be assigned to players and players will choose to leave for better money/opportunity.

This 'competition' is designed to allow opportunity for all but that doesn't mean all can make it.
It's not the players that make for the best teams. It's the best planning and execution of that planning, that does.

Agree with all. But I'd also add luck as a big component to making the best teams as well.

 

[thylacine60]

North are practically a carcass, anyone decent we could pilfer from there??

Ignore the crap, LUD is building nicely.

 

[Coops93]

We would have to think very hard about offering him another deal. Doesn't deserve one imo, would much rather play Silvagni who can swap with Cripps for stints on ball.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. I'm surprised there's not more talk about it tbh because on form he doesn't deserve a new contract, but I doubt we'd delist him. Interested to see how this plays out

 

[Coops93]

I think if West Coast offer a 3rd rounder we'd take it and run. Can't see it happening though. Wouldn't be surprised if we gave him a 1 year deal and put the heat on him

I think this could be likely, though he'll probably want a 2 year deal.

A 1 yr prove it deal is very common in American sports, it could be what Mitch needs to light a fire

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. I'm surprised there's not more talk about it tbh because on form he doesn't deserve a new contract, but I doubt we'd delist him. Interested to see how this plays out

Surely, today is his last chance to start showing something. If he stinks up the joint again we should offer him a quarter of what he's on now and even that's being generous...

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

Ignore the crap, LUD is building nicely.

LDU will be a star, was more about who we could acquire...

 

[CJMB]

You want to avoid doing what Hawthorn have done recently, and it appears * have also started to do, which is completely avoid the pointy end/first round of the draft year on year.

* haven’t really done much on draft night since 2016 where they got McGrath and Ridley... Hawks have done SFA in years.

Don’t trade all the good picks each year for players, still bring in 3 or 4 1st/2nd round kids every 2 years to replenish the younger end of the list.

We’ve probably got a year or even two where we can focus on mature acquisitions, but after that we should hit the draft again with 1 or 2 good picks (18 and 36 are still alright...)

 

[Arr0w]

True.. but never is a long time...

Also, I'll add... there's a lot of luck involved with the Eagles list too.

Not saying it's easy, but that's the goal

As for WC being lucky, I call it organized and only one NGA player on their list

They are the measuring stick in list management