List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[CaressMyBlues]

That being said I get the feeling that this year will be the year some of our young boys get plucked from under us. I'd be disappointed to see any of them go but realistically when you pick a whole array of players, some turn out the way you expect them to and some dont. We might be better off seeing them ride off into the sunset to fulfill different roles at different clubs and use the picks we could get on addressing some of our list needs which they don't fill.

Would be very surprised if any of the youngins wanted to leave, on the on and up.

Been a painful 8 years, but light at the end of the tunnel.

Only feasible scenario imo, is if we have to let some go due to Covid cuts and someone else wants them.

 

[Manhattanite]

Effort and intensity should be a non-negotiable when playing at the level. That doesn't, nor should it influence the value of a player. Output is the only thing I'm interest in, otherwise you can justify any price for any player.

If clubs were offering up to $900k last year (North Melbourne) and people are saying his value has gone up, one can only assume $1m will be on the table, especially when we're declaring an "all-out assult" to lure him from Sydney.

Let me put it this way, you can't have $1.6-1.8m tied up in Papley and McGovern, two low output players and expect to contend for a flag. It's a misallocation of resources. If your game plan structures up around 3 high priced key forwards, they should be your primary targets and kicking the majority of your goals, not the small forwards.

We've got enough money tied up in our forward line with McKay, Curnow, McGovern and Martin. We need to allocate more funds across the ground to remain competitive.

Bottom line, for the way we play, we shouldn't be throwing all our chips at a small forward. That says to me that we've got no idea what we're doing.

There is absolutely nothing about Papley that screams he is playing for the money or going to chase the big bucks. I am very confident that North offered a lot more than us last season and that he picked us anyway. That’s partly due to Newman but mostly because Papley wants to win a flag and sees us having good prospects - and the way Papley approaches the contest it’s clear he’s in it to win it.




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[HereComesJuddy]

Don't think so.

We will cough up 2 x first round selections if Papley comes to us.

Some will probably cringe a little, but we'll just have to move on with it.

On a side note, get pumped if the rumour around Nathan Murphy is true. He's got some serious talent. To be honest, I'd be more excited about Murphy than Papley. His upside is enormous.

It won't be 2 1st if we finish in the bottom 5. Trust me

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I think they're angling to try and sell him to the highest bidding Melbourne club, of which we are only one. Think about how he'd sit in Geelong's forward half, WB's forward half.

I think the clubs that either couldn't get him or wouldn't be interested would be Richmond, St Kilda, Essendon and Collingwood. WB need literally anyone who can kick a goal; our interest is plain; Geelong need young talent before the music stops, and so do Hawthorn. I don't think he'd go to Nth, but if they offered him a million a year across six years and offered Sydney 2 firsts, they'd both be mad not to take it.

I think this is very much a case of buyer beware here; not because he's not that good, but because getting him is going to hurt.

I'd be beyond surprised if Papley said "happy to go to any Vic team". It doesn't work like that

 

[Team DJ]

I can get us down to a list of 42 quite easily.
Retire: Simpson Betts & Kreuzer (maybe someone offers him a lifeline to continue?)

Delist: Lang ODwyer Moore Goodard.

Trade/Free Agent in: 1x A Grader

Draft: 2x Players (1x ruck & either Small Forward or KPP)

If list sizes are any less than 42 there'll be some stiff players. Looking at:
Polson, MaCreadie Owies Phillips Newnes.

Or Trade some Depth:
Kennedy Levi

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It won't be 2 1st if we finish in the bottom 5. Trust me

Agree. Pick 5 plus later change 3rd maybe somehow later second is worth way more to them then two firsts, if one was around ~10 and obviously it would be expected our first next year would be later plus they would be sending a second going back to us.
If our pick is almost guaranteed to be before their first bid and we can find them points for matching later in the draft then that is perfect for them.


They would most likely end up with 3 top 2-8 talents this year and another top ~20 possibly without going into deficit.
Their re-build would almost be complete. Pick up a FA like Williams or Daniher or another young value player and they could be in a brilliant position.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I'd be beyond surprised if Papley said "happy to go to any Vic team". It doesn't work like that

Agree though it wouldn’t surprise me if he was open to say us and Bulldogs. Two sides with talent and crying out for him and have the picks. If we don’t offer up enough it could be as simple as Sydney telling him you’re staying or go talk to dogs (insert side) they would be willing to offer up enough for us to let you go.

 

[Setterfides]

Hypothetical for you all.
When it looked that we may finish just out of the 8 and therefore end up with pick 8-10, I was all for trading that pick for an established player in a position of need.
A lot would have to go right for us to finish there, so there’s every chance we end up with a top 5 pick.
My question is: should that change our willingness to trade the pick? Not sure about mock drafts with no junior footy being played, so there may not be a Rowell/Walsh in there. I also know the draft is compromised with Academy/father-son selections.
But it’s an interesting dilemma.

if this is the case, and we end up with a pick in the 4-6 range, I would love to see us use this pick (and our second(s) if required), and turn it into two later first rounders.
I’m sure there’d be clubs out there with academy kids who’d love a pick before their kid is bid on

Should we pull this off, it opens things up for us massively. Could spend one to bring in Hunter, and the other could be used as a piece in a Papley deal. Cherry on top would be Williams as a FA.

Should we miss one/two of these (or other targets), I’d be fine with going to the draft in some capacity, as I’m confident that development of guys from within (looking at LOB, Dow, Fish etc) will eventually fill some of the apparent ‘gaps’ in our list. Although, it would be nice to see some solid performances from them in the ones, to reaffirm this confidence (Fish is off to a great start).

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

if this is the case, and we end up with a pick in the 4-6 range, I would love to see us use this pick (and our second(s) if required), and turn it into two later first rounders.
I’m sure there’d be clubs out there with academy kids who’d love a pick before their kid is bid on

Should we pull this off, it opens things up for us massively. Could spend one to bring in Hunter, and the other could be used as a piece in a Papley deal. Cherry on top would be Williams as a FA.

Should we miss one/two of these (or other targets), I’d be fine with going to the draft in some capacity, as I’m confident that development of guys from within (looking at LOB, Dow, Fish etc) will eventually fill some of the apparent ‘gaps’ in our list. Although, it would be nice to see some solid performances from them in the ones, to reaffirm this confidence (Fish is off to a great start).

The only problem is that the Bulldogs and Sydney are two teams who have early academy kids so later first rounders are pointless to them.

 

[Setterfides]

The only problem is that the Bulldogs and Sydney are two teams who have early academy kids so later first rounders are pointless to them.

Not that extra late first rounders are pointless, but I certainly see what you’re saying.

I’m just not sure what those clubs would see as reasonable for those players, and if a first rounder doesn’t go a fair way in acquiring them, I’d be looking to see what we could do elsewhere. Surely that’s currency enough to land some players of significance, even if it doesn’t end up being those two.

 

[Gethelred]

I'd be beyond surprised if Papley said "happy to go to any Vic team". It doesn't work like that

'It' doesn't work the same way year in year out.

What it depends on is how determined Papley is to play for Carlton. He didn't immediately come out and suggest a trade to Carlton; that he doesn't want to go to Essendon is about the only thing that emerged from last trade period, as he refused to be a part of the Daniher trade. We'll see, I guess.

 

[BlueJet]

'It' doesn't work the same way year in year out.

What it depends on is how determined Papley is to play for Carlton. He didn't immediately come out and suggest a trade to Carlton; that he doesn't want to go to Essendon is about the only thing that emerged from last trade period, as he refused to be a part of the Daniher trade. We'll see, I guess.

Agreed,
IMO It depends on how desperate he is to return to Melbourne and whether he believes that Carlton or other suitors can actually get the deal done.
In all honesty though, if the asking price is 2x first rounders, I'd hope that we walk away.

 

[TheLeftFooters]

Personally hoping we pull off something along the lines of...

Laird > First/second depending how he finishes the year
Witherden > 2nd rounder
Josh Kelly/Williams - Both elite in their own right, tipping one will stay and one will go. Would cost an arm and a leg.
Daniel Rioli > Richmond small forward squeeze continues, same situation as Butler.

Papley just looks to be too expensive, too important... but who knows whats going to happen with him.


Witherden Jones Plowman
Doch Weitering Laird

Walsh Cripps LoB
Pitt Kelly Setters

Martin Mckay Rioli
Mcgov Charlie Fisher

Dow Kemp Casboult Ed/Murph

I'm hoping Simmo and Betts hang up the boots come end of year, as much as I love both it's probably better to have some different options in at this point as their outputs will likely be more or the same, same with Murph and Ed but I don't think you can move them all on at once and I'd rather have Murph and Ed for the young midfield brigade just in case.

Think that would give our Forward line a real burst of speed with Fisher Rioli and Martin and our backline some serious users of the ball instead of relying on Doc so much.

Where did this Witherden talk come from? If I'm Brisbane, I'm not trading him for a second rounder. The reason he struggled to get back into the team was because of his attitude. He is still highly rated. I'd love to get him though, the kid has a serious good shoe. I'd imagine they have him in their long term plans. Unless he wants to return to Vic.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I am starting to think Papley is going to be too hard to move... He is playing exceptionally, and more importantly is playing with a bit of 'spunk' which we all know the Sydney teams need these big personalities to capture the media attention, if i am head of footy at Sydney he is the last player I am trading especially with 3 years still on his contract.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Not that extra late first rounders are pointless, but I certainly see what you’re saying.

I’m just not sure what those clubs would see as reasonable for those players, and if a first rounder doesn’t go a fair way in acquiring them, I’d be looking to see what we could do elsewhere. Surely that’s currency enough to land some players of significance, even if it doesn’t end up being those two.

Yeh I agree there will possibly be some great opportunities this year

 

[CaressMyBlues]

I am starting to think Papley is going to be too hard to move... He is playing exceptionally, and more importantly is playing with a bit of 'spunk' which we all know the Sydney teams need these big personalities to capture the media attention, if i am head of footy at Sydney he is the last player I am trading especially with 3 years still on his contract.

They'll demand top 10 pick and a player, or two first rounders, dollars to doughnuts.

Papley would be super keen to go back to Victoria due to the whole COVID-19, so its on Sydney really.

Personally I wouldn't pay that, but other clubs will be circling like Saints etc, question is will they be willing to pay.

We'll see what Austin is really made of in the trade period.

 

[Eiffel 65]

This year sure, but he's been a very good for a longer period of time than just this season, and it's an absolute fallacy to suggest he's always been the #1 target.

That's my point. He has been a good player for a long period of time.

His value has skyrocketed in recent times in the absence of Franklin, which coincides with the time period of Papley being their #1 target. No one can deny they've kicked it to Papley more than any other forward since Franklin has been injured.

I'm not against getting him, but only if he comes at the right price because I know he isn't going to have the same impact for us as what he's having for them right now given the way we structure up forward.

 

[DangerousD]

I have never been a fan of Hunter, have never seen his as damaging or quick and see his as 4th-5th in line at the dogs. If we go after him, I don’t see him being that expensive, our first if it’s around 8 will be more than enough, I would be close to leaning to some change.

It needs to be raised that the Dogs are looking at a very difficult draft, their boy will probably go pick 1, they will need to raise draft equity somehow.

 

[Eiffel 65]

I am starting to think Papley is going to be too hard to move... He is playing exceptionally, and more importantly is playing with a bit of 'spunk' which we all know the Sydney teams need these big personalities to capture the media attention, if i am head of footy at Sydney he is the last player I am trading especially with 3 years still on his contract.

Josh Kelly will be far easier to extract from GWS than what Papley will be from Sydney.

The difference between the two trades is that GWS have a plethora of young, elite midfielders struggling to get a game. They'll either lose Kelly or a handful of young stars taken in the first round of their respective drafts.

Sydney don't have the same amount of talent stockpiled to replace Papley.

This, coupled with the cap squeeze and GWS will result in some kind of fallout.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I have been warning to us having another crack at Ollie Wines in recent weeks, his form lately has been outstanding.

Don't think we have the currency to get both him and Papley, I would be rapt with either really.

Suspect LOB may seek greener pastures if he cannot get a game soon (not sure of his contract status)

Simmo can go around for another year (If he wants to).

 

[DangerousD]

I think they're angling to try and sell him to the highest bidding Melbourne club, of which we are only one. Think about how he'd sit in Geelong's forward half, WB's forward half.

I think the clubs that either couldn't get him or wouldn't be interested would be Richmond, St Kilda, Essendon and Collingwood. WB need literally anyone who can kick a goal; our interest is plain; Geelong need young talent before the music stops, and so do Hawthorn. I don't think he'd go to Nth, but if they offered him a million a year across six years and offered Sydney 2 firsts, they'd both be mad not to take it.

I think this is very much a case of buyer beware here; not because he's not that good, but because getting him is going to hurt.

As you alluded o, not many clubs are in a position to offer more than what we can in terms of picks and $$$. Hawthorn possibly, but would need to trade out senior guys and offer their 1st pick for a player that isn’t going to drive a rebuild, North have two 1st rounders this year and anything from trades, so they will be in a good spot to trade and I don’t see Geelong having the means to get a deal done.

Would Sydney and Papley come to an agreement at the end of last season?

I don’t understand the hurt comment, trading two first rounders with a second coming back, for a really good player doesn’t hurt, it helps, what hurts is, taking kids in the first round of the draft and 3-5 years later realising they aren’t up to it or still saying they need time or a good run from injury.

You put up a list the other day of players you liked or types you liked, would any of them be available with the pick that would come back in a Papley trade? If yes, it then isnt 2 first round picks for Papley, it’s two 1st round picks for Papley and Witherden, or Papley and Hill, it looks a lot better then.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

They'll demand top 10 pick and a player, or two first rounders, dollars to doughnuts.

Papley would be super keen to go back to Victoria due to the whole COVID-19, so its on Sydney really.

Personally I wouldn't pay that, but other clubs will be circling like Saints etc, question is will they be willing to pay.

We'll see what Austin is really made of in the trade period.

I think they will demand far more than that, he is clearly their most important player.. Would we accept this for Cripps?? I think they will get to a point where they simply do what ever it takes to make him happy.. FWIW 2 first round picks i would do it, in a heartbeat.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Josh Kelly will be far easier to extract from GWS than what Papley will be from Sydney.

The difference between the two trades is that GWS have a plethora of young, elite midfielders struggling to get a game. They'll either lose Kelly or a handful of young stars taken in the first round of their respective drafts.

Sydney don't have the same amount of talent stockpiled to replace Papley.

This, coupled with the cap squeeze and GWS will result in some kind of fallout.

I agree, if things blow up at GWS like looks inevitable they will need to sacrifice someone and Kelly might just be the lamb.

 

[DangerousD]

Where did this Witherden talk come from? If I'm Brisbane, I'm not trading him for a second rounder. The reason he struggled to get back into the team was because of his attitude. He is still highly rated. I'd love to get him though, the kid has a serious good shoe. I'd imagine they have him in their long term plans. Unless he wants to return to Vic.

Fagan mentioned last year that Witherden struggled with homesickness early on, that’s enough for me to suggest he would welcome offers, if he’s not playing and his attitude isn’t great, it could be a reflection of not being happy in Brisbane.

 

[Ricky Mott]

Don't think so.

We will cough up 2 x first round selections if Papley comes to us.

Some will probably cringe a little, but we'll just have to move on with it.

On a side note, get pumped if the rumour around Nathan Murphy is true. He's got some serious talent. To be honest, I'd be more excited about Murphy than Papley. His upside is enormous.

Terrible trade. Two first round picks is selling the farm. We offered pick 9 last year that the swans would have excepted if they got Daniher. Charlie Cameron went to Brisbane for pick 12. Our pick looks more like pick 5 or 6 this year.
Two first round picks will show how desperate the CEO is in bring in a player to justify the departure of sos.