Discussion 2021 General AFL Discussion

[Diehard Saint]

Not worried in the slightest but if it does eventuate I will stop following the sport right then and there. It's a pretty simple equation for me.

55 000 membership would be cut by half. And I’d be one.

 

[Bill Mohr]

55 000 membership would be cut by half. And I’d be one.

I did that when cricket had the big change- refused to watch Packers mob for about a year- only watched the white clothing tests on the ABC. But my love of the game soon ensured that I came back to the fold and watched all games. Cant recall how many members south Melb lost when they went to Sydney or Fitzroy for that matter. But those teams were merged because they were broke!!!

 

[gringo2011]

If and it is a big if the saints did relocate, we would be set both an and off the football field. We go up the ladder that quick you would not know which way to look. There would be money rolling in the aisles.

It would but it would be a new Saints like the Lions aren't Fitzroy. I think I'd probably have a passing interest because I like footy but it would kill any passion I have for the game. The club has done their best to make themselves vulnerable so I can see why we are in the sights but it still hurts.

In one way it would be better than spending my life waiting for a train that may never arrive but it would still be like being in mourning. I had a girlfriend who's family were all Fitzroy supporters and the pain that caused so many people was unbelievable. It was seriously like a death to so many of them.

 

[Ducky Tie]

This is what is incorrect, "There is no news here. Carter's report is totally pointless". , this is huge news. His job was not to say how to do it but to report on what can be done, a business case. Totally disregarding a report like this smacks of "head in the sand" stuff. No-one said it is going to happen this year or next. A time frame for 2025 has been suggested- basically 3 years.

Ok sure, it's not literally nothing, but it's close to it.

Let's take a look at what Carter actually says. His key finding is this:

"The case for Tasmania is strong, and the recommendation is that Tasmania should be represented by a team in the AFL/AFLW national competitions - but the best form of that team is less clear-cut. It could take the form of a 19th licence and that case can be made. But re-location of an existing team if a club is keen to take that path, or a joint venture between Tasmanian stakeholders and a Victorian team that secures strong support in two markets from the outset, would arguably produce a more sustainable outcome."

Carter is raising the possibility three general options, without really committing or even specifically recommending one.
- A stand alone Tasmanian team
- A relocation of a Melbourne team, if they are keen.
- A joint venture where there is a blended Melbourne/Tasmanian team.

The first is the Tasmanian desire, but Carter says it is probably the least sustainable of the three outcomes. The second is probably the most sustainable financially and practically, but there is zero chance of any team being 'keen' or even remotely open to the possibility of relocation. The third is vague and impractical.

We would have been closer to a positive outcome if Carter had come out and said Tasmania deserves and can sustain a 19th license in its own right, as his recommendation. 2025 is not far away at all. Carter has declared the bare minimum level of support for a Tasmanian team. Gutwein's condemnation of the report reflects this.

 

[Bill Mohr]

It would but it would be a new Saints like the Lions aren't Fitzroy. I think I'd probably have a passing interest because I like footy but it would kill any passion I have for the game. The club has done their best to make themselves vulnerable so I can see why we are in the sights but it still hurts.

In one way it would be better than spending my life waiting for a train that may never arrive but it would still be like being in mourning. I had a girlfriend who's family were all Fitzroy supporters and the pain that caused so many people was unbelievable. It was seriously like a death to so many of them.

I can imagine that and know a few Fitzroy followers and I loved the pub in Fitzroy with all the memoribilia on the walls when I dropped in for a feed/beer awhile ago. I think for the good of the game, a team in Tasmania has to be there, whoever it may be. When it comes to the crunch we all have to put our AFL CEO hat on and look closely at which club my possibly relocate and why.

 

[Murraj1966]

WTF- why should it make me feel sick? Give me some reasons why it should not be the saints. So now you dont like positives. Shall I start with negatives then? Its a forum for discussion about the issue and your sounding like a 10 year who lost his tennis ball down the drain.

Moorabbin redevelopment
56k Victorian members
Founding VFL club

Is that enough for you?

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

WTF- why should it make me feel sick? Give me some reasons why it should not be the saints. So now you dont like positives. Shall I start with negatives then? Its a forum for discussion about the issue and your sounding like a 10 year who lost his tennis ball down the drain.

If we win some games and make finals a few years in a row it definitely shouldn't be us. We made finals last year, we're still a chance to make finals this year which means we're at least close. Next year we will again. Does a team that's made finals 3 years in a row sound like a team that needs to be relocated? Why not ship the bloody blues over

 

[One 2 Roo]

3 points here: Note I am a proud Tasmania (based in QLD!)

1. Does anyone have or can anyone point me too the funding currently provided by Tas. Gov. to North and Hawthorn? Currently major partner for the Hawks, I imagine this would be a huge hit to the bottom line.

2. In my eyes, the logical team to relocate is the Hawks. They already play 4 games per season in Launceston, have a huge following (taking over from us when we departed...a story for another time) in the North of the State in particular. Conceivably, the Hawks could play 4 games in Hobart, 8 in Melbourne and 4 interstate without too much disruption.

I am not entirely sure this would appease the great people of the Apple Isle, who want and thoroughly deserve, their own team - not one that is based in Melbourne that travels to Tasmania, but may work.

3. Perhaps it is because I am Tasmanian, but I would continue to support the Saints if they were to have co-existence between Moorabbin and Tasmania. Not 100% certain if this would remain the case if they were relocated to Hobart, I am not sure if my passsion is something I can simply turn off, irrespective of how displeased I am.

 

[lewdogs]

It won't be us. It would be a debacle, the AFL would never want a repeat of Fitzroy and this would be 100 times worse.

 

[#gosaintas]

Can a club even function as a JV and have an identity at all? Syd is probably the closest to what is being proposed. Do the Melb South supporters still believe it's their club? I reckon they do.
We'll have to look at it and the benefits might be enormous. Shitty situation with us being the weakest club financially.

 

[Bill Mohr]

Ok sure, it's not literally nothing, but it's close to it.

Let's take a look at what Carter actually says. His key finding is this:

"The case for Tasmania is strong, and the recommendation is that Tasmania should be represented by a team in the AFL/AFLW national competitions - but the best form of that team is less clear-cut. It could take the form of a 19th licence and that case can be made. But re-location of an existing team if a club is keen to take that path, or a joint venture between Tasmanian stakeholders and a Victorian team that secures strong support in two markets from the outset, would arguably produce a more sustainable outcome."

Carter is raising the possibility three general options, without really committing or even specifically recommending one.
- A stand alone Tasmanian team
- A relocation of a Melbourne team, if they are keen.
- A joint venture where there is a blended Melbourne/Tasmanian team.

The first is the Tasmanian desire, but Carter says it is probably the least sustainable of the three outcomes. The second is probably the most sustainable financially and practically, but there is zero chance of any team being 'keen' or even remotely open to the possibility of relocation. The third is vague and impractical.

We would have been closer to a positive outcome if Carter had come out and said Tasmania deserves and can sustain a 19th license in its own right, as his recommendation. 2025 is not far away at all. Carter has declared the bare minimum level of support for a Tasmanian team. Gutwein's condemnation of the report reflects this.

I couldnt see a 19th team because that could easily be rejected by those making the decision. The relocation is the right decision IMO but what club would be keen to do that? As carter said- no club would ever agree to that, they didnt in the past and not now or ever. But sometimes the decision is taken out of the clubs hands. He clearly states the case is strong. Previous argument is that Tasmania could not afford it, people would not go, where would the games be played, where would the club be based. A lot of that stuff has been disproved. From my understanding, there is still some divide though amongst Tasmanians on where the team would be based if they moved to Tassie. His first paragraph seems like support to me.

 

[Bill Mohr]

If we win some games and make finals a few years in a row it definitely shouldn't be us. We made finals last year, we're still a chance to make finals this year which means we're at least close. Next year we will again. Does a team that's made finals 3 years in a row sound like a team that needs to be relocated? Why not ship the bloody blues over

Yes, you are right. We are on the cusp of making successive finals if we play well in the next few years- so that could not be used as an excuse to relocate the club. Having said that , Tom morris mentioned Hawthorn and how good have they been in the last 15 years. We all know Carlton wont be going anywhere.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I am a Balmain supporter and then we merged with Wests.
Even though the Wests Tigers have won a premiership it’s not the same.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Yes, you are right. We are on the cusp of making successive finals if we play well in the next few years- so that could not be used as an excuse to relocate the club. Having said that , Tom morris mentioned Hawthorn and how good have they been in the last 15 years. We all know Carlton wont be going anywhere.

finals a few years in a row brings about a change in how St Kilda are viewed by the rest of the AFL as well as a ton of bandwagoner supporters which is exactly what we need. One finals series had us catapult up in membership numbers, imagine what happens when we play finals a few years in a row.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I couldnt see a 19th team because that could easily be rejected by those making the decision. The relocation is the right decision IMO but what club would be keen to do that? As carter said- no club would ever agree to that, they didnt in the past and not now or ever. But sometimes the decision is taken out of the clubs hands. He clearly states the case is strong. Previous argument is that Tasmania could not afford it, people would not go, where would the games be played, where would the club be based. A lot of that stuff has been disproved. From my understanding, there is still some divide though amongst Tasmanians on where the team would be based if they moved to Tassie. His first paragraph seems like support to me.

There's been no indication at all of the AFL being open to forcing a team to relocate. The attempt to push North up the Gold Coast 15 years ago is as strong as we've seen in 20 years, and that was when the AFL was desperate to get a team there. If the AFL couldn't get it then when they were trying to, they are even less chance now of having a team relocate when they are openly saying it is on the condition that the team wants to do it. As you say, Carter knows no team will choose to relocate and the AFL won't force it. They don't care enough about this venture to do so. The joint venture has already been knocked back by Gutwein. This leaves a 19th license as the only option, but Carter has said it's the least preferable.

This doesn't even give the commission or the clubs anything specific to vote on. It just continues a cyclical process of back and forth between the AFL and Tasmania.

 

[Bill Mohr]

There's been no indication at all of the AFL being open to forcing a team to relocate. The attempt to push North up the Gold Coast 15 years ago is as strong as we've seen in 20 years, and that was when the AFL was desperate to get a team there. If the AFL couldn't get it then when they were trying to, they are even less chance now of having a team relocate when they are openly saying it is on the condition that the team wants to do it. As you say, Carter knows no team will choose to relocate and the AFL won't force it. They don't care enough about this venture to do so. The joint venture has already been knocked back by Gutwein. This leaves a 19th license as the only option, but Carter has said it's the least preferable.

This doesn't even give the commission or the clubs anything specific to vote on. It just continues a cyclical process of back and forth between the AFL and Tasmania.

I havent read most of the document but you could consider it the "end play" in the ongoing saga. There wont be any more reports regarding the business case-this was it. I am sure there will be a shedful of political stuff going on and that at the end of the day the AFL will have to make a decision one way or the other. It would be very unpalatable if no AFL football was played in Tasmania from beyond 2021. This would not be a very good legacy for Gill mclachlan at all.

 

[CaptainRisky]

It won't be us. It would be a debacle, the AFL would never want a repeat of Fitzroy and this would be 100 times worse.

How can you say that ? We are just as much of a chance to be sent there as all the others mentioned

 

[Ducky Tie]

I havent read most of the document but you could consider it the "end play" in the ongoing saga. There wont be any more reports regarding the business case-this was it. I am sure there will be a shedful of political stuff going on and that at the end of the day the AFL will have to make a decision one way or the other. It would be very unpalatable if no AFL football was played in Tasmania from beyond 2021. This would not be a very good legacy for Gill mclachlan at all.

Agree with that. I just think that the emphasis on relocation/joint venture as a priority ensures we don't get a resolution for several years. Listening to Carter on SEN before, it was clear he doesn't think it's likely that any teams will go for it and a 19th license is the most probable outcome. I think closer to 2030 is more likely than 2025 now.

 

[Ducky Tie]

This panic about us or North is understandable but misplaced. It's worth listening to Carter speak about it. I'd say there's pretty much zero chance of a merger/relocation. It's either a 19th license or nothing.

Colin Carter - Author of The Carter Report - on Dwayne's World - Friday 13th April

Colin Carter speaks to Dwayne about the publication of The Carter Report into the sustainability of an AFL team in Tasmania.

player.whooshkaa.com

 

[Munga]

I am a Balmain supporter and then we merged with Wests.
Even though the Wests Tigers have won a premiership it’s not the same.

What's a Balmain?

Exactly.

 

[bergholt]

Carter said exactly what the AFL wanted him to say - a standalone team wouldn't be strong. The relocation thing is a figleaf because Tassie wouldn't want a team to relocate down there anyway, and everyone knows it's basically impossible to make it happen short of bankruptcy. This whole thing was just to help them put it off longer.

 

[stavro#4]

Carter said exactly what the AFL wanted him to say - a standalone team wouldn't be strong. The relocation thing is a figleaf because Tassie wouldn't want a team to relocate down there anyway, and everyone knows it's basically impossible to make it happen short of bankruptcy. This whole thing was just to help them put it off longer.

My gut feeling is that Hawthorn play 4/5 games a year down there.

still called Hawthorn.Still wearing poos and Wees.

but known as the “Tassie” Hawks to the state.

 

[Bill Mohr]

Agree with that. I just think that the emphasis on relocation/joint venture as a priority ensures we don't get a resolution for several years. Listening to Carter on SEN before, it was clear he doesn't think it's likely that any teams will go for it and a 19th license is the most probable outcome. I think closer to 2030 is more likely than 2025 now.

Cant see it happening if it doesnt happen around 2025, I can see Gutwein cancelling the AFL contracts and putting money into the new basketball team the Jackjumpers and putting in any other sports funding to soccer. Aussie rules will continue its slow death in Tasmania and by 2030 I can see most clubs folding. Football death as we know it.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Cant see it happening if it doesnt happen around 2025, I can see Gutwein cancelling the AFL contracts and putting money into the new basketball team the Jackjumpers and putting in any other sports funding to soccer. Aussie rules will continue its slow death in Tasmania and by 2030 I can see most clubs folding. Football death as we know it.

Most clubs in Tasmania I assume you mean? That would be a terrible outcome. One that no one wants to see. I think there will be a better outcome than that.

 

[gringo2011]

I can imagine that and know a few Fitzroy followers and I loved the pub in Fitzroy with all the memoribilia on the walls when I dropped in for a feed/beer awhile ago. I think for the good of the game, a team in Tasmania has to be there, whoever it may be. When it comes to the crunch we all have to put our AFL CEO hat on and look closely at which club my possibly relocate and why.

Tassie should get a club. I just would prefer not to be that club. People with Tassie connections are going to love it if they are Saints fans but you aren't going to have many victorian Saints fans happy to move. It's like telling Australians that they are going to change our official language to Chinese for the asian century. It makes sense, it's good for business and all that but try selling it.