List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[murphster]

Not really undersized as I like Fisher, Fogarty and Owies. I tend to think of every position on the field has certain traits and then look at which players match. Example, a rebounding defender needs strong metres gained as just one of the core traits. Reason why SPS was a total failure there. You need other traits too but that is an example of a core trait.

Gibbons, SPS and Murphy all like space to do their best work. They don’t provide unconditional tackling, chasing and physicality. Murphy is the best example, when he chases, he is hoping for a turnover so runs a little behind his opponent Waiting for that chance. The cost is, his opponent sets up the transitional play ….a lot. The overlap.

Since the days of bell, Hasleby and now Murphy the game has changed. This is totally my opinion but I believe the game doesn’t want th3se types now….slow mids, little physical impact and looking for cheap possessions. Useless possessions like Marc Murphy for 5 years running to the back pocket to get @ kick and a mark.

the new current traits are Melbourne, doggies and tigers midfield. Those delisted arent really a match for those midfields so I support their delisting.

Two core traits of a small fwd are defensive pressure and goals. Im much more comfortable with Owies than Murphy or gibbons because of that true effort in defensive pressure. Twice I saw Owies run right to the opponents goal square to tackle his direct opponent. I’ve never seen gibbo or Murphy really do that.

I think others on here only see the attacking merit in a player. Not the equally important defensive side.

Owies weakness is his ball handling when the ball hits the ground, needs to become a one touch player to succeed as a small forward, as you say his defensive work is good and kicks goals through marks or getting out the back but in a crowded forward line under pressure fumbles far to often which costs himself and the team goals, Melbourne game a good example could have kicked 4-5 if not for double grabbing ground balls.

 

[murphster]

Height alone isn't a great measure though. Using the GF as an example, Viney is only 178cm and Libba is a smidge under 6' at 182cm, yet both are the hard inside types for their teams.

Even factoring in weight alongside height isn't perfect. There's plenty of taller/heavier guys that play below their size, and some skinny/short guys that are hard as a cats head which negates their smaller stature. Martin is actually a pretty good example here, he's seriously wiry but we know he hits hard. Durdin is listed at 173 & 77 but attacks the man, goes in like a little cannonball. Fogarty (180/78) is also a good tackler, and he's almost a dimensional copy of Murph.

Hopefully with a less aggressive spread next season we'll have more opportunities for players to tackle and impose themselves physically.

I'm also really looking forward to seeing our potential forward pressure with the likes of Martin, Honey, Durdin, Fogarty & SOS up forward.

Fogarty for me should be the one to play the role Lambert plays for Richmond, start him at half forward and after the bounce he pushes up to pick up Cripps opponent defensively allowing Cripps to play forward of centre ala Dusty, Fogarty has the speed and endurance to get to the contests and has clean ball handling skills and vision in the contest to extract and also to get involved in the transition chains as well as very good tackling.

 

[murphster]

Having speed, can be overrated at times, I much prefer "aggressive runners".

Players with intent, short bursts or long gut runs either with the ball or creating options

The running hard to create options is one of the areas we lack, Walsh and Ed do it consistently and Martin when up the ground is very good in short bursts at creating a target but outside of those 3 we are very poor in this area and need a big lift, sorry Kennedy while not quick does also run very hard to create an option for his teammates and it is an area of his game that is seldom spoken of, he is a very good link up player through the middle of the ground as he’s very good at finding or making space.

 

[murphster]

he does get a fair bit of leeway off the umps - juddish...........

When you can run from the centre circle to just inside 50 without a bounce and get away with it that’s not leeway that’s a ****ing freeway.

 

[murphster]

This is for anyone who got to see any of the NAB league games specifically Sandy games,

Charlie McKay this year in 9 games has averaged:

23 disposals, 12 kicks, 11 handballs, 3.7 marks, 4.55 tackles, 1.7 rebound 50s, and 3.4 inside 50s,

Which to me looking at the raw numbers, compared to others, seems decent output especially given the abundance of talent in the Sandy team, he also had a couple of 30+ disposal games, so my question is for those that have seen some of his games,

What’s his disposal and his decision making like?
What specific position did he spend most of the year playing?
And what is the knock on his game that is keeping him out of contention?

 

[BlueTongue]

This is for anyone who got to see any of the NAB league games specifically Sandy games,

Charlie McKay this year in 9 games has averaged:

23 disposals, 12 kicks, 11 handballs, 3.7 marks, 4.55 tackles, 1.7 rebound 50s, and 3.4 inside 50s,

Which to me looking at the raw numbers, compared to others, seems decent output especially given the abundance of talent in the Sandy team, he also had a couple of 30+ disposal games, so my question is for those that have seen some of his games,

What’s his disposal and his decision making like?
What specific position did he spend most of the year playing?
And what is the knock on his game that is keeping him out of contention?

Not sure when this was written (this year I think) but it's a fair review:

Charlie McKay: Growing the legacy

www.sandringhamdragons.com.au

 

[gadj1976]

Fogarty for me should be the one to play the role Lambert plays for Richmond, start him at half forward and after the bounce he pushes up to pick up Cripps opponent defensively allowing Cripps to play forward of centre ala Dusty, Fogarty has the speed and endurance to get to the contests and has clean ball handling skills and vision in the contest to extract and also to get involved in the transition chains as well as very good tackling.

But that's Cripps problem. He's not a goalkicker. He fluffs set shots up. If he could get that part of his game right he'd completely dominate.

Imagine us being able to rest Cripps at FF and have him one out on a midsized defender. No one would stop him. Problem right now is we can't afford to because 1 we don't have the firepower in the midfield to get it to him and 2, he can't capitalise on the opportunities. 13 goals 11 this season but that belies the fact that he missed a lot of set shots (67 g 75 behinds overall)

 

[Earls Smother]

Having speed, can be overrated at times, I much prefer "aggressive runners".

Players with intent, short bursts or long gut runs either with the ball or creating options

This is ok if your blokes repeatedly do it better than the opposition. The good sides will match you in these aspects, then the speed becomes relevant.

The Bulldogs midfield and flankers are obviously good, but overall Melbourne had them covered for speed. As the game goes on, legs tire, repeat efforts fall away, tackles are broken - speed opens the game up.

Richmond did this for years - match the opposition for bursts, gut runs, stamina (basically all the different types of running), then get you for speed later in quarters and the game as a whole.

It gets back to what Russell mentioned before last season (I think), we lack the hybrid players that have endurance and a breakaway burst of speed. We have the likes of Ed at one end of the scale and Dow at the other. We want to play them because of what they bring, but we then become vulnerable to what they don't bring.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

But that's Cripps problem. He's not a goalkicker. He fluffs set shots up. If he could get that part of his game right he'd completely dominate.

Imagine us being able to rest Cripps at FF and have him one out on a midsized defender. No one would stop him. Problem right now is we can't afford to because 1 we don't have the firepower in the midfield to get it to him and 2, he can't capitalise on the opportunities. 13 goals 11 this season but that belies the fact that he missed a lot of set shots (67 g 75 behinds overall)

It's all mental.

I'm of the view he needs to be relieved of the Captaincy.

 

[katmanblue]

But that's Cripps problem. He's not a goalkicker. He fluffs set shots up. If he could get that part of his game right he'd completely dominate.

Imagine us being able to rest Cripps at FF and have him one out on a midsized defender. No one would stop him. Problem right now is we can't afford to because 1 we don't have the firepower in the midfield to get it to him and 2, he can't capitalise on the opportunities. 13 goals 11 this season but that belies the fact that he missed a lot of set shots (67 g 75 behinds overall)

Was much better in the latter part of the year. Maybe, just maybe turning a corner with his goalkicking.

 

[Justnetime]

Fogarty for me should be the one to play the role Lambert plays for Richmond, start him at half forward and after the bounce he pushes up to pick up Cripps opponent defensively allowing Cripps to play forward of centre ala Dusty, Fogarty has the speed and endurance to get to the contests and has clean ball handling skills and vision in the contest to extract and also to get involved in the transition chains as well as very good tackling.

I think tactically it’s a struggle to have 1 player try and chase down another teammate’s opponent. Try to run from half forward in time to pickup Cripps opponent who wins a clearance is pretty hard. It just isn’t a great starting point.

I think the Tigers list is different to ours. Maybe they have so many other fast runners it doesn’t become an issue. Martin, Shai, Edwards, Cotchin, others Etc.

I also think Martin is soo dangerous that opponent teams chase him more than run off him. Cripps doesn’t threaten anywhere near as much goals or goal assists so they will run off Cripps causing goal Runs which happen today.

Cripps only has one value to us. See ball get ball. He just needs to stop the other creative moves as he doesn’t simply have the skill set or speed, finishing, or running capacity. He needs to follow Wines path to become relevant again. Handpass to someone who has skill.

i remember when Cripps made his name. He got his hands free and over head of opponent at the stoppage and hit a running target making us as a side look awesome at stoppages. He simply needs to return to that model of Cripps with a fit hody.

 

[murphster]

Was much better in the latter part of the year. Maybe, just maybe turning a corner with his goalkicking.

Yeah he got back to keeping his head over the footy instead of lifting his head and leaning back, had the head over the ball technique down pat a couple of years ago but just went away from it in 2020 and early 21, Martin does the same leans back to far instead of staying over the ball.

 

[gbatman]

McKay might be a good one to put on the VFL list and see how we go. Reckon there will be a good clean out at the end of next year and if he's shown enough could be a part of the incoming then.

It's just hard to give a bloke a go when list spots are so tight. List reductions and not having too many out of contract this season is not helping us a great deal but everyone is more or less in the same boat.

Would like to try and recruit a few youngsters we may have taken with later picks to the VFL if they are undrafted.

If we have a cleanout as I suspect we will and list sizes go back to normal we could be looking at taking in quite a few players next season.

 

[murphster]

I think tactically it’s a struggle to have 1 player try and chase down another teammate’s opponent. Try to run from half forward in time to pickup Cripps opponent who wins a clearance is pretty hard. It just isn’t a great starting point.

I think the Tigers list is different to ours. Maybe they have so many other fast runners it doesn’t become an issue. Martin, Shai, Edwards, Cotchin, others Etc.

I also think Martin is soo dangerous that opponent teams chase him more than run off him. Cripps doesn’t threaten anywhere near as much goals or goal assists so they will run off Cripps causing goal Runs which happen today.

Cripps only has one value to us. See ball get ball. He just needs to stop the other creative moves as he doesn’t simply have the skill set or speed, finishing, or running capacity. He needs to follow Wines path to become relevant again. Handpass to someone who has skill.

i remember when Cripps made his name. He got his hands free and over head of opponent at the stoppage and hit a running target making us as a side look awesome at stoppages. He simply needs to return to that model of Cripps with a fit hody.

It’s not about racing in to cover Cripps man at the first bounce it’s pushing up to try and provide cover after that first bounce so his opponent can’t run off him and set up the goal runs, Cripps is never going to be able to cover defensively so we remove the need for him to do it so he can get back to doing what he does best, save his energy and concentrate on winning the contest and getting it to the outside, we usually push a half forward up to the contest anyway it’s just giving him a specific role and covering a weakness. Lambert and Graham both do it for Dusty at times. It’s about reducing things they need to worry about so they can do what they do best.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I think tactically it’s a struggle to have 1 player try and chase down another teammate’s opponent. Try to run from half forward in time to pickup Cripps opponent who wins a clearance is pretty hard. It just isn’t a great starting point.

I think the Tigers list is different to ours. Maybe they have so many other fast runners it doesn’t become an issue. Martin, Shai, Edwards, Cotchin, others Etc.

I also think Martin is soo dangerous that opponent teams chase him more than run off him. Cripps doesn’t threaten anywhere near as much goals or goal assists so they will run off Cripps causing goal Runs which happen today.

Cripps only has one value to us. See ball get ball. He just needs to stop the other creative moves as he doesn’t simply have the skill set or speed, finishing, or running capacity. He needs to follow Wines path to become relevant again. Handpass to someone who has skill.

i remember when Cripps made his name. He got his hands free and over head of opponent at the stoppage and hit a running target making us as a side look awesome at stoppages. He simply needs to return to that model of Cripps with a fit hody.

Handball and marking. In 2019 he was almost as good as Charlie in being that link man. He's lost that although he is getting manhandled a lot.

 

[murphster]

McKay might be a good one to put on the VFL list and see how we go. Reckon there will be a good clean out at the end of next year and if he's shown enough could be a part of the incoming then.

It's just hard to give a bloke a go when list spots are so tight. List reductions and not having too many out of contract this season is not helping us a great deal but everyone is more or less in the same boat.

Would like to try and recruit a few youngsters we may have taken with later picks to the VFL if they are undrafted.

If we have a cleanout as I suspect we will and list sizes go back to normal we could be looking at taking in quite a few players next season.

The AFL list reductions is making list management very hard and we are now seeing players that should be on AFL lists getting cut, I really hope we can get back to where we were at the end of next year.

There should be some decent Knights players available to join our VFL ranks Joel Fitzgerald if he doesn’t get picked up as well as Trudgeon who already played a few VFL games this year, Wilmot as well but he will probably get picked up.

It’s a shame we had to surrender pick 6 because Ward would have been a great addition to our midfield with his ball winning ability and tank added to Walsh and Cerra.

 

[FRROST]

With all the chat about our 2022 list... I can't find anything about Jack Newnes

32

Jack Newnes

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

11.3

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.3

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

13.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.4

3star

.
Does anyone know whether he is contracted another year via a 2021 trigger clause?
All I can find is his contract expires end of this year.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

With all the chat about our 2022 list... I can't find anything about Jack Newnes.
Does anyone know whether he is contracted another year via a 2021 trigger clause?
All I can find is his contract expires end of this year.

It would be unusual to have multiple year trigger clauses.

 

[zeeCFC]

Riley Beveridge of AFL.com stated on air a month or so ago that Newnes hit a games trigger to an extra year early in his stint at Carlton - he's contracted until the end of 2022

 

[norway blue]

Riley Beveridge of AFL.com stated on air a month or so ago that Newnes hit a games trigger to an extra year early in his stint at Carlton - he's contracted until the end of 2022

And he’s good on the list. Put this to bed ..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Donnini]

Newnes is a pro

 

[thylacine60]

Riley Beveridge of AFL.com stated on air a month or so ago that Newnes hit a games trigger to an extra year early in his stint at Carlton - he's contracted until the end of 2022

You've triggered another year on BF with your Levant inspired male couture, scintillating game & on-point cultural acumen.

 

[Ninja Worrier]

His what?

 

[Magruder]

You've triggered another year on BF with your Levant inspired male couture, scintillating game & on-point cultural acumen.

His what?

don’t worry, I couldn’t follow it either.

 

[Arr0w]

Some interesting free agents next year

McStay, Maynard, Moore, JDG, Miller, Sicily, Brayshaw, Amon, Heeney, Barrass, Dale, Daniel

Tipping one will be a Blue end of next year