2022 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

[Blackhawk42]

I think Lekkas would have been around in 08 if not for injuries a head injury wasn’t it.

Angelo Lekkas is a manifestation of my Hawthorn fandom as a young kid.
I was 18 by the time our 08 flagged was won.

The idea of Lekkas being around for that premiership would be like the Dinosaurs walking with modern man.

Ben Dixon missing out by one year is already strange enough to think about.

 

[HedgeFund]

I understand what you are saying and far be it for me to defend Tassie Cryptic's tedious fanboiing of Nash at every possible moment - but I think it was apparent during the 2021 season that Nash was being played out of position.

He was useless as a forward and it was obvious he was completely lost playing there. But he found some form playing through the middle for Box Hill that year.

Edit: actually that's probably what you meant in the first place. No one knew what his best position would be early days.

Stynes, Keneally and Tuohy are the only genuine Irish successes (Wight was Scottish).

Stynes played purely as a ruck who then followed the ball everywhere. There were far less complicated midfield plans in the 80/90s. Tuohy, Keneally and Wight were simple basic play behind the ball and on an opponent defenders, who then run off when they get the chance.

We have spent 6 years trying to teach an apple how to be an orange, mainly because he’s been the only big athletic player capable of running through the middle and dwarfing opposing players.

Our approach to developing Nash has been ordinary to say the least. Now we have finally drafted / recruited some taller mids who have played this game since they were 5. Will be interesting to see if Nash stagnates or continues to develop / play catch up with the natural football players

 

[Dewnior]

I'm tipping he won't have to ruck this year, with 4 genuine rucks on our list now.

 

[Coach Killer]

Very much doubt Sam doesn't see it differently to you.
Played 21 of 22.
Contract extension under Sam.
Nash is a starting mid who has played ruck, ruck rover, centre, wing, HFF and floated into the back line too.
How do you spell versatile?

Versatile

 

[Coach Killer]

The same Sam who identified Nash as being a midfielder as opposed to a forward as Clakro was trying? Same Sam who played him 21 games last year? Same Sam who while playing under gained a 2 year extension with the club?

I am all for the young kids coming for his spot - if a few of the draftees surpassed him this year it would be a boon for our team. However I think Sam rates Connor much more highly than you do at present.

I don't think he's a forward or a midfielder, I think he's struggled at the top level and based on his output to date, is an average AFL footballer. There is better talent at the club that will get more opportunities as midfielders. I have him down as a depth player that will be used as cover and may well play a few games. He’s no star.

I agree the fact we've got talent coming through that are in front of him as midfielders is good for the team. That's my point. Can't see how he gets a game as a midfielder in front of at least 9 other guys who are better and more talented midfielders than him and are currently training in that position.

Jai, Worpel, Stephens, Finn, CMac, Ward, Day Weddle, Frogga. Wouldn't surprise me if Huthwait and Long go past him as well.

His chances will be limited. I simply rate him the 10th best midfield option. Someone has to be 10th and for me it's Nash. Some may rate him 9th, 8th, 7th, or 6th. He's certainly not top 4.

Where do you rate him?

 

[Coach Killer]

Then why is he in there when we have specific stoppage drills, as a mid?

They're probably running 10 to 12 guys through midfield drills. He's one of. I'm pretty sure guys like Long are also training in specific stoppage drills. Doesn’t mean Long will be a starting 4 midfielder. I have Nash and Long rated at the back end of our current midfield options - 10th or 11th.

Here’s my midfield ranking for the guys currently training as mids fighting for 4 spots as midfielders.

1. Jai
2. Worpel
3. Stephens
4. Finn
5. CMac
6. Ward
7. Frogga
8. Day
9. Weddle
10. Nash
11. Long
12. Husthwait

Where do you have Nash?

 

[KermitJagger]

I don't think he's a forward or a midfielder, I think he's struggled at the top level and based on his output to date, is an average AFL footballer. There is better talent at the club that will get more opportunities as midfielders. I have him down as a depth player that will be used as cover and may well play a few games. He’s no star.

I agree the fact we've got talent coming through that are in front of him as midfielders is good for the team. That's my point. Can't see how he gets a game as a midfielder in front of at least 9 other guys who are better and more talented midfielders than him and are currently training in that position.

Jai, Worpel, Stephens, Finn, CMac, Ward, Day Weddle, Frogga. Wouldn't surprise me if Huthwait and Long go past him as well.

His chances will be limited. I simply rate him the 10th best midfield option. Someone has to be 10th and for me it's Nash. Some may rate him 9th, 8th, 7th, or 6th. He's certainly not top 4.

Where do you rate him?

You rate him 10th, Tassie Cryptik rates him 1st - we all rate him somewhere different but none of that matters at all. It all depends on where the coaches rate him.

Sam Mitchell singled out efforts from him in multiple games which turned the tide of play in our favour, he played him in every game bar 1 where he was managed and not omitted. My feelings aren't that strong either way, and if other players improve more than he does that can only be a good thing for the team, but you need to accept that Mitchell clearly has a plan for him and that something would need to change drastically to go from picking him whenever he's available to not picking him at all.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Nashy is flying in preseason. Remember last year he was a bit behind as he did some of it in Ireland and only joined training in the new year. He is training predominately in the midfield. Round 1 is going to be hotly contested midfield if everyone is available. Fan favourties might miss out on selection and i am sure there will plenty of hoopla on said omissions

 

[Coach Killer]

but you need to accept that Mitchell clearly has a plan for him

He has a plan for every player on the list.

 

[The hands of stone]

Nash training with the mids to clearly throw oppo scouts off when he lines up in the forward pocket round 1. Great planning by Sam.
Check mate Essendon

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I don't think he's a forward or a midfielder, I think he's struggled at the top level and based on his output to date, is an average AFL footballer. There is better talent at the club that will get more opportunities as midfielders. I have him down as a depth player that will be used as cover and may well play a few games. He’s no star.

I agree the fact we've got talent coming through that are in front of him as midfielders is good for the team. That's my point. Can't see how he gets a game as a midfielder in front of at least 9 other guys who are better and more talented midfielders than him and are currently training in that position.

Jai, Worpel, Stephens, Finn, CMac, Ward, Day Weddle, Frogga. Wouldn't surprise me if Huthwait and Long go past him as well.

His chances will be limited. I simply rate him the 10th best midfield option. Someone has to be 10th and for me it's Nash. Some may rate him 9th, 8th, 7th, or 6th. He's certainly not top 4.

Where do you rate him?

See all of what you said is fine because it is based on what you think - I was merely rebutting your premise that you and Sam are some sort of likeminded souls on this when all evidence is to the contrary.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

They're probably running 10 to 12 guys through midfield drills. He's one of. I'm pretty sure guys like Long are also training in specific stoppage drills. Doesn’t mean Long will be a starting 4 midfielder. I have Nash and Long rated at the back end of our current midfield options - 10th or 11th.

Here’s my midfield ranking for the guys currently training as mids fighting for 4 spots as midfielders.

1. Jai
2. Worpel
3. Stephens
4. Finn
5. CMac
6. Ward
7. Frogga
8. Day
9. Weddle
10. Nash
11. Long
12. Husthwait

Where do you have Nash?

1) Newcombe is a certified gun.

2) Ward is a gun and is the future.

3) Maginess looks like he is developing into a quality player.

4) Moore is a gun that will split time as a forward and running through the middle.

Based on last season I'd currently have Nash here at 5. The rest are up for grabs.

Day has barely played through the middle much in the senior side. Will his body hold up? Will he spend more time playing on a wing?

MacDonald hasn't played in the midfield for the senior side as yet. He's the future, but may still play most of his time off the HFF (I hope not though).

Worpel has been average, at best, for three seasons.

Stephens has played 7 games in his three year career.

Mackenzie hasn't played a senior game. I'm sure he's the future though.

Weddle hasn't played as a midfielder for over two years.

Long is coming from a fair way back.

Hustwaite looks classy, but needs some size and will do his apprenticeship.

 

[Dewnior]

He has a plan for every player on the list.

 

[peetoo]

If Nash is fit, he will play majority of games like 2022 when jom and Tom were around

Maybe he will get overtaken by others over time, is that a bad thing. Until then he’s one of the best options to protect and preserve said youngsters while they develop his background is rugby btw. Not a typical Irish recruit.
Maybe with his confidence when rotating back through the forward line he’s a tackling machine

 

[almuz]

The thing with Nash is that sure he isn’t the best pure midfielder but in a team of 22 you need guys who offer different things.

Nash’s sheer size to occupy space in contests, tackling pressure, quick hands can help the other guys shine.

 

[grumbleguts]

Hello, do you guys have any concerns about Mitchell Lewis injury last season affecting him in 2023?

I have concerns only about his 2023 injuries affecting him if he gets any.

 

[grumbleguts]

On Nash, one thing that Nash surprised me with was his delivery into the forward line. Lewis found himself on the end of some very very good 50 m passes from Nash.

Bullocking big-bodied ruffian, I expected. But that sort of finesse was a huge plus.

 

[number23]

He has a plan for every player on the list.

..and that includes the Exit door..

 

[CHUBBSS]

Nash will be one of our only senior mids next year, going to be going in hard with Worpel to make sure the kids don’t burn out.

He will benefit from continued match time and development and his upside is huge his played a season their, I feel like this is constantly forgotten.

He might not come good till 27 in development but it will be worth every penny.

Our whole list will benefit from continued confidence in everyone around them to

 

[Satchel]

Nash looks like the perfect fullback for rugby league - big unit & fast - he could return a lot of tries

I also haven't given up on him at AFL level

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Nash looks like the perfect fullback for rugby league - big unit & fast - he could return a lot of tries

I also haven't given up on him at AFL level

There aren't many fullbacks going around at 197cm - he'd be amazing to watch if doing it.

 

[Slainte]

Nash on one wing with Amon on the other. Nash to rotate a bit with Day in and out of the stoppages. Amon to rotate a bit with Morrison. I know it sounds crazy but I reckon Meek could do cameos as a centre clearance mid, as Roughead used to do.

 

[Jet_black]

Argh… another ex-hawk, Gibson, mind you ex-roo, goes to North

Clarko putting the old band together…even Got monkhorst as PT specialist coach as well.

Who else from HFC is he going to get?

Nevertheless happy with where the club seems to be heading. This reset was 3 or 4 years too late.





On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[theiaofseed]

Every move Clarkson has made since being appointed North's coach just reaffirms the decision to remove him on was correct, keeps going to the same well hoping for a different result.

 

[hardway]

Argh… another ex-hawk, Gibson, mind you ex-roo, goes to North

Clarko putting the old band together…even Got monkhorst as PT specialist coach as well.

Who else from HFC is he going to get?

Nevertheless happy with where the club seems to be heading. This reset was 3 or 4 years too late.





On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Needs to make Sheezel feel like he is actually at Hawthorn