List Mgmt. 2022 List Management: Draft, Trade and FA

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Collingwood just beat us without a gun key forward, with most of their goals coming from speedy small forwards capitalising on ballistic rebound into their very open forward 50.

Why can’t we just play like that? No need to even think about the one mythical key forward who will wield Excalibur and vanquish our foes. Just use the players we already have 🤷‍♂️
 

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It's going to be a big offseason and trade period. Tbh I'm not as worried about losing Acres and Logies as others are. The big realisation over the weekend is Jackson's value has been way over hyped, he's not worth more than Carlton have for cerra that's the reality.
 
Pommie Docker said:
The big realisation over the weekend is Jackson's value has been way over hyped, he's not worth more than Carlton have for cerra that's the reality.
Click to expand...

So if you are saying that Jackson is worth pick 6, then isn't that pretty much the equivalent of two late firsts?
 
I know there are so many people on this board that have a hard on for Rory Lobb and I just cannot understand it. Sat in level 4 of the MCG last night and watched him intently all game.
It was the most important matchup leading into the game. Moore v Lobb. Spoken about ad nauseum all week by pretty much everyone. He is our number one KPF. The most important position on the field. That is where every teams talisman plays, the guy that is meant to lead this young side and shoulder the responsibility by laying down a marker against their superstar CHB. People laying into Walker, a back pocket 19 years old earning $100k plus match payments? Yeah he had a nightmare and in hindsight the 150 game experience of Wilson would have been better, but Walker is not one of our leaders. Shit happens with young kids. He’ll improve no doubt about it.

Lobb is supposed to be one of our main men, the guy the kids look to for inspiration in a massive final. He actually started off ok, took a couple of early marks and got involved. I thought ok, here we go, he could be on. The crowd was manic early and their pressure was intense, they get off to a quick start.
Lobb gets a mark i50 about 25 m out on a moderate angle. Bread and butter for the top key forwards. He misses. For a young team needing a settler score early, it was unforgivable.
Josh Kennedy wouldn’t miss that.
Jack Riewoldt wouldn’t.
Jeremy cameron wouldn’t.
Even bloody Brodie Mihocek or Jamie Elliot at the other end wouldnt.
Hipwood last night nailed all those type of chances.

Most annoyingly however, from that moment on, he was Darcy moores teddy bear.
Beaten in every way, physically, mentally, emotionally. How the fcuk can we win a flag at the MCG if we can’t trust our main KPF? Also unlike most of the team, he’s not improving next year. At best, at VERY best, we will get the same as we got this year. A guy who kicks 30 goals, and looks good some weeks and absolutely putrid other weeks. Buddy Franklin is 36 years old and just about on the scrapheap as an old man according to most AFL fans yet he’s just kicked over 50 goals.

The very last 20 seconds of the third quarter summed up the Lobb v Moore matchup last night. Great play by Mundy to find Clark who pumps it into Lobb v Moore with about 12 seconds left in the quarter. We are on a little high after Walters just kicked a goal. Moore rises majestically above Lobb, wins the contest decisively and sets them up with an outrageous field kick, it almost ended up a goal at the other end with the siren saving us. Like a man versus a disorientated child. Utter dominance.

I think Lobb leaving is the best thing that happens to freo long term. Amiss goes in Round 1 and plays 22 games next year. You back in Josh Treacy, Luke jackson if he comes. Yeah they will be frustrating and inconsistent but there’s growth there, untapped potential to improve. There is none of that with Lobb.

As for Tabs - yeah he’s not much different to Lobb. Can’t be trusted either and can’t stay fit though I do believe deep down that he has a little more heart and stomach for a dogfight than Lobb.

I think that the freo fanbase has been so traumatised by the lack of an elite key forward in our history apart from Pav, that any old “average Joe” like Lobb gets almost god like status in some fans eyes when they play a few half decent games.
Add in the fact that he doesn’t even want to be here??? GTFO
A Geelong supporting mate watched the game with me and he was just laughing at the idea of Lobb as a KPF compared to Hawkins and Cameron.
I want to see us win a flag. The WCE struck gold by getting Josh Kennedy for 13 years. They would have won nothing without him.
I hope Lobb requests the trade Monday morning. Some people will be devastated but long term it’s in the best interest of this club. We will never win the flag if he is our main KPF. I’ve never been so certain of anything in my life.
I might come across as overly harsh on Lobb but I don’t care. Its not personal it’s just about what’s best for the Fremantle football club. I judge Lobb by different standards right now than Brandon Walker or Nathan O’Driscoll.
 
Descent said:
Collingwood just beat us without a gun key forward, with most of their goals coming from speedy small forwards capitalising on ballistic rebound into their very open forward 50.

Why can’t we just play like that? No need to even think about the one mythical key forward who will wield Excalibur and vanquish our foes. Just use the players we already have 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

The biggest difference was Pies are willing to roll the dice on fast movement. We weren’t. We wanted to set up behind the ball.

The first 10 mins was as helter skelter as I’ve seen Freo this year. Seems we were willing to gamble. Then we went 2 goals down and completely stopped taking it on.

Easy in hindsight, but we needed to actually attempt a shoot out. Kind of how we beat Brisbane, Hawks at home this year. Those teams will just roll the dice, so you need to be willing to beat them at that game.

Some times you can’t get it ‘on your terms’. Hence why a plan B is imperative.
 
Dockeroo said:
I know there are so many people on this board that have a hard on for Rory Lobb and I just cannot understand it. Sat in level 4 of the MCG last night and watched him intently all game.
It was the most important matchup leading into the game. Moore v Lobb. Spoken about ad nauseum all week by pretty much everyone. He is our number one KPF. The most important position on the field. That is where every teams talisman plays, the guy that is meant to lead this young side and shoulder the responsibility by laying down a marker against their superstar CHB. People laying into Walker, a back pocket 19 years old earning $100k plus match payments? Yeah he had a nightmare and in hindsight the 150 game experience of Wilson would have been better, but Walker is not one of our leaders. s**t happens with young kids. He’ll improve no doubt about it.

Lobb is supposed to be one of our main men, the guy the kids look to for inspiration in a massive final. He actually started off ok, took a couple of early marks and got involved. I thought ok, here we go, he could be on. The crowd was manic early and their pressure was intense, they get off to a quick start.
Lobb gets a mark i50 about 25 m out on a moderate angle. Bread and butter for the top key forwards. He misses. For a young team needing a settler score early, it was unforgivable.
Josh Kennedy wouldn’t miss that.
Jack Riewoldt wouldn’t.
Jeremy cameron wouldn’t.
Even bloody Brodie Mihocek or Jamie Elliot at the other end wouldnt.
Hipwood last night nailed all those type of chances.

Most annoyingly however, from that moment on, he was Darcy moores teddy bear.
Beaten in every way, physically, mentally, emotionally. How the fcuk can we win a flag at the MCG if we can’t trust our main KPF? Also unlike most of the team, he’s not improving next year. At best, at VERY best, we will get the same as we got this year. A guy who kicks 30 goals, and looks good some weeks and absolutely putrid other weeks. Buddy Franklin is 36 years old and just about on the scrapheap as an old man according to most AFL fans yet he’s just kicked over 50 goals.

The very last 20 seconds of the third quarter summed up the Lobb v Moore matchup last night. Great play by Mundy to find Clark who pumps it into Lobb v Moore with about 12 seconds left in the quarter. We are on a little high after Walters just kicked a goal. Moore rises majestically above Lobb, wins the contest decisively and sets them up with an outrageous field kick, it almost ended up a goal at the other end with the siren saving us. Like a man versus a disorientated child. Utter dominance.

I think Lobb leaving is the best thing that happens to freo long term. Amiss goes in Round 1 and plays 22 games next year. You back in Josh Treacy, Luke jackson if he comes. Yeah they will be frustrating and inconsistent but there’s growth there, untapped potential to improve. There is none of that with Lobb.

As for Tabs - yeah he’s not much different to Lobb. Can’t be trusted either and can’t stay fit though I do believe deep down that he has a little more heart and stomach for a dogfight than Lobb.

I think that the freo fanbase has been so traumatised by the lack of an elite key forward in our history apart from Pav, that any old “average Joe” like Lobb gets almost god like status in some fans eyes when they play a few half decent games.
Add in the fact that he doesn’t even want to be here??? GTFO
A Geelong supporting mate watched the game with me and he was just laughing at the idea of Lobb as a KPF compared to Hawkins and Cameron.
I want to see us win a flag. The WCE struck gold by getting Josh Kennedy for 13 years. They would have won nothing without him.
I hope Lobb requests the trade Monday morning. Some people will be devastated but long term it’s in the best interest of this club. We will never win the flag if he is our main KPF. I’ve never been so certain of anything in my life.
I might come across as overly harsh on Lobb but I don’t care. Its not personal it’s just about what’s best for the Fremantle football club. I judge Lobb by different standards right now than Brandon Walker or Nathan O’Driscoll.
Click to expand...
Allegedly Moore was sick as a dog too.
Look Lobb was okay I thought, not our worst, but if we get a good pick for him and lose his salary off the books it won't be a bad deal
 
Dockeroo said:
I know there are so many people on this board that have a hard on for Rory Lobb and I just cannot understand it. Sat in level 4 of the MCG last night and watched him intently all game.
It was the most important matchup leading into the game. Moore v Lobb. Spoken about ad nauseum all week by pretty much everyone. He is our number one KPF. The most important position on the field. That is where every teams talisman plays, the guy that is meant to lead this young side and shoulder the responsibility by laying down a marker against their superstar CHB. People laying into Walker, a back pocket 19 years old earning $100k plus match payments? Yeah he had a nightmare and in hindsight the 150 game experience of Wilson would have been better, but Walker is not one of our leaders. s**t happens with young kids. He’ll improve no doubt about it.

Lobb is supposed to be one of our main men, the guy the kids look to for inspiration in a massive final. He actually started off ok, took a couple of early marks and got involved. I thought ok, here we go, he could be on. The crowd was manic early and their pressure was intense, they get off to a quick start.
Lobb gets a mark i50 about 25 m out on a moderate angle. Bread and butter for the top key forwards. He misses. For a young team needing a settler score early, it was unforgivable.
Josh Kennedy wouldn’t miss that.
Jack Riewoldt wouldn’t.
Jeremy cameron wouldn’t.
Even bloody Brodie Mihocek or Jamie Elliot at the other end wouldnt.
Hipwood last night nailed all those type of chances.

Most annoyingly however, from that moment on, he was Darcy moores teddy bear.
Beaten in every way, physically, mentally, emotionally. How the fcuk can we win a flag at the MCG if we can’t trust our main KPF? Also unlike most of the team, he’s not improving next year. At best, at VERY best, we will get the same as we got this year. A guy who kicks 30 goals, and looks good some weeks and absolutely putrid other weeks. Buddy Franklin is 36 years old and just about on the scrapheap as an old man according to most AFL fans yet he’s just kicked over 50 goals.

The very last 20 seconds of the third quarter summed up the Lobb v Moore matchup last night. Great play by Mundy to find Clark who pumps it into Lobb v Moore with about 12 seconds left in the quarter. We are on a little high after Walters just kicked a goal. Moore rises majestically above Lobb, wins the contest decisively and sets them up with an outrageous field kick, it almost ended up a goal at the other end with the siren saving us. Like a man versus a disorientated child. Utter dominance.

I think Lobb leaving is the best thing that happens to freo long term. Amiss goes in Round 1 and plays 22 games next year. You back in Josh Treacy, Luke jackson if he comes. Yeah they will be frustrating and inconsistent but there’s growth there, untapped potential to improve. There is none of that with Lobb.

As for Tabs - yeah he’s not much different to Lobb. Can’t be trusted either and can’t stay fit though I do believe deep down that he has a little more heart and stomach for a dogfight than Lobb.

I think that the freo fanbase has been so traumatised by the lack of an elite key forward in our history apart from Pav, that any old “average Joe” like Lobb gets almost god like status in some fans eyes when they play a few half decent games.
Add in the fact that he doesn’t even want to be here??? GTFO
A Geelong supporting mate watched the game with me and he was just laughing at the idea of Lobb as a KPF compared to Hawkins and Cameron.
I want to see us win a flag. The WCE struck gold by getting Josh Kennedy for 13 years. They would have won nothing without him.
I hope Lobb requests the trade Monday morning. Some people will be devastated but long term it’s in the best interest of this club. We will never win the flag if he is our main KPF. I’ve never been so certain of anything in my life.
I might come across as overly harsh on Lobb but I don’t care. Its not personal it’s just about what’s best for the Fremantle football club. I judge Lobb by different standards right now than Brandon Walker or Nathan O’Driscoll.
Click to expand...

Someone buy this man a beer. Great post Dockeroo.
 

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Defense: Tick
Midfield: Tick*
Forwards: Meh**

* Kicking to 2v1s in the fwd line for the entire season, replacement for Mundy needs to have wheels or a really good defensive game.
** Underachieving, dragging extra opponents to the drop of the ball
 
Dockeroo said:
I know there are so many people on this board that have a hard on for Rory Lobb and I just cannot understand it. Sat in level 4 of the MCG last night and watched him intently all game.
It was the most important matchup leading into the game. Moore v Lobb. Spoken about ad nauseum all week by pretty much everyone. He is our number one KPF. The most important position on the field. That is where every teams talisman plays, the guy that is meant to lead this young side and shoulder the responsibility by laying down a marker against their superstar CHB. People laying into Walker, a back pocket 19 years old earning $100k plus match payments? Yeah he had a nightmare and in hindsight the 150 game experience of Wilson would have been better, but Walker is not one of our leaders. s**t happens with young kids. He’ll improve no doubt about it.

Lobb is supposed to be one of our main men, the guy the kids look to for inspiration in a massive final. He actually started off ok, took a couple of early marks and got involved. I thought ok, here we go, he could be on. The crowd was manic early and their pressure was intense, they get off to a quick start.
Lobb gets a mark i50 about 25 m out on a moderate angle. Bread and butter for the top key forwards. He misses. For a young team needing a settler score early, it was unforgivable.
Josh Kennedy wouldn’t miss that.
Jack Riewoldt wouldn’t.
Jeremy cameron wouldn’t.
Even bloody Brodie Mihocek or Jamie Elliot at the other end wouldnt.
Hipwood last night nailed all those type of chances.

Most annoyingly however, from that moment on, he was Darcy moores teddy bear.
Beaten in every way, physically, mentally, emotionally. How the fcuk can we win a flag at the MCG if we can’t trust our main KPF? Also unlike most of the team, he’s not improving next year. At best, at VERY best, we will get the same as we got this year. A guy who kicks 30 goals, and looks good some weeks and absolutely putrid other weeks. Buddy Franklin is 36 years old and just about on the scrapheap as an old man according to most AFL fans yet he’s just kicked over 50 goals.

The very last 20 seconds of the third quarter summed up the Lobb v Moore matchup last night. Great play by Mundy to find Clark who pumps it into Lobb v Moore with about 12 seconds left in the quarter. We are on a little high after Walters just kicked a goal. Moore rises majestically above Lobb, wins the contest decisively and sets them up with an outrageous field kick, it almost ended up a goal at the other end with the siren saving us. Like a man versus a disorientated child. Utter dominance.

I think Lobb leaving is the best thing that happens to freo long term. Amiss goes in Round 1 and plays 22 games next year. You back in Josh Treacy, Luke jackson if he comes. Yeah they will be frustrating and inconsistent but there’s growth there, untapped potential to improve. There is none of that with Lobb.

As for Tabs - yeah he’s not much different to Lobb. Can’t be trusted either and can’t stay fit though I do believe deep down that he has a little more heart and stomach for a dogfight than Lobb.

I think that the freo fanbase has been so traumatised by the lack of an elite key forward in our history apart from Pav, that any old “average Joe” like Lobb gets almost god like status in some fans eyes when they play a few half decent games.
Add in the fact that he doesn’t even want to be here??? GTFO
A Geelong supporting mate watched the game with me and he was just laughing at the idea of Lobb as a KPF compared to Hawkins and Cameron.
I want to see us win a flag. The WCE struck gold by getting Josh Kennedy for 13 years. They would have won nothing without him.
I hope Lobb requests the trade Monday morning. Some people will be devastated but long term it’s in the best interest of this club. We will never win the flag if he is our main KPF. I’ve never been so certain of anything in my life.
I might come across as overly harsh on Lobb but I don’t care. Its not personal it’s just about what’s best for the Fremantle football club. I judge Lobb by different standards right now than Brandon Walker or Nathan O’Driscoll.
Click to expand...
I agree.

It’s actually pretty difficult to get a reliable key forward.

West Coast lost Judd and Kennedy didn’t want to be traded.

Hawkins was a father son pick and the Cats gave up a third round pick for him. That’s pretty lucky not good management.

We tried with Hogan, Tarrant and Croad which didn’t work.

Getting back to Lobb, I really hate his body language. Seems to get more upset about delivery to him than losing.

Amiss, and Treacy have the heart, smarts and passion to be the reliable key forwards. It will take 3-4 years before that happens.
 
go_the_dockers said:
Acres. Pick 25
Logue. Pick 19 at the moment. Hopefully something more.
Lobb. Swap firsts and a 2nd rounder.


I think Jackson will take all picks we get from all 3.
Don't think that is a win.
Click to expand...

If we get that deal from Lobb then Pick 11 and a future first should be very close to the final offer. Maybe swap a second with Melbourne’s if we’re feeling generous.

It should be no more than that.

Melbourne won’t let Jackson walk into the PSD and go to West Coast over getting two firsts imo. We’ve just got hold our nerve until the last half hour of trade period and they’ll cave.

We should end up with Jackson and 2-3 pretty decent picks (assuming we don’t bring in more players) if those that are rumoured to leave actually end up leaving.
 
nurries said:
The problem is we have a side of good blokes and no mongrels. Who was testing Degoeys shoulder last night, who gets stuck into the yank or Elliot? Too soft. Collingwood have Degoey, Maynard, Crisp, Elliot that will all crack in
Click to expand...
I don't think mongrel matters. You need to be hard, sure, and that's why I'd point out that all of those blokes you list are in their prime age. Almost half of our side is under 22 so it is no surprise we couldn't go with them physically.

Cobbler said:
Tarryn Thomas. Get him through Logue deal.
Both top 10 picks.
Thomas comes with serious question marks and could 100% be a failed recruit BUT his talent is undeniable and I watched him lots last year and he is an absolute gun.
Could play wing or half forward.

For me he is the best talent that could help us. He is contracted for 2 more years but reports are he wants out of north.

I’m massively into this kid.
Click to expand...
Aren't the reports that TT has some issues off-field. I agree the kid is super talented but not sure we follow it up if true.
Descent said:
Collingwood just beat us without a gun key forward, with most of their goals coming from speedy small forwards capitalising on ballistic rebound into their very open forward 50.

Why can’t we just play like that? No need to even think about the one mythical key forward who will wield Excalibur and vanquish our foes. Just use the players we already have 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
They have quality in their smaller forwards but I think the lack of quality talls might cost them against better teams (than us).

I do want to know the answer to the second question though. Feel like we are too risk averse still. Collingwood compensating for their lacklustre forward line by moving the ball fast and giving them a chance. If a club shuts down that movement (ala Sydney), they won't score. For context, compare their ball movement to ours (night and day) and then consider they only scored 100 more points than us in 22 rounds - their forward line is probably worse than ours if you just swapped the players.

You want a bit of both. Some tall and small quality so that even when not totally on your terms you can still score (like West Coast prior to this year). Then you want to move the ball at reasonable speed so you give them a chance. Reckon we have work to do on both aspects.
 
Lobb is soft both mentally and physically but he's a talented player too.

He's the best that we've got in the role that he plays by a long, long way.

We'll miss him enormously next year if we don't replace him from outside our current list.

Darcy Moore is one of the best in the business and the game was played on the Pies terms.
 
Cobbler said:
The biggest difference was Pies are willing to roll the dice on fast movement. We weren’t. We wanted to set up behind the ball.

The first 10 mins was as helter skelter as I’ve seen Freo this year. Seems we were willing to gamble. Then we went 2 goals down and completely stopped taking it on.

Easy in hindsight, but we needed to actually attempt a shoot out. Kind of how we beat Brisbane, Hawks at home this year. Those teams will just roll the dice, so you need to be willing to beat them at that game.

Some times you can’t get it ‘on your terms’. Hence why a plan B is imperative.
Click to expand...
Totally agree.

We played very “safe” football and Collingwood were very comfortable defending that slow go movement.

I was pretty upset that our structures never changed during the game.

Magpies did their homework and cut off the change of play and 45 angle kick into the middle.

I rather have lost by more last night than play such a timid style which gave us no chance to win.

As you said, row the dice.
 
Lobb is and has always been massively overrated. Soundly beaten by a shorter, almost-didn’t-play-sick-for-2-days kpd in Moore. Just hung his head and offered nothing all night. Useless campaigner can piss right off. Good riddance.
 
Joao said:
I don't think mongrel matters. You need to be hard, sure, and that's why I'd point out that all of those blokes you list are in their prime age. Almost half of our side is under 22 so it is no surprise we couldn't go with them physically.


Aren't the reports that TT has some issues off-field. I agree the kid is super talented but not sure we follow it up if true.

They have quality in their smaller forwards but I think the lack of quality talls might cost them against better teams (than us).

I do want to know the answer to the second question though. Feel like we are too risk averse still. Collingwood compensating for their lacklustre forward line by moving the ball fast and giving them a chance. If a club shuts down that movement (ala Sydney), they won't score. For context, compare their ball movement to ours (night and day) and then consider they only scored 100 more points than us in 22 rounds - their forward line is probably worse than ours if you just swapped them.

You want a bit of both. Some tall and small quality so that even when not totally on your terms you can still score (like West Coast prior to this year). Then you want to move the ball at reasonable speed so you give them a chance. Reckon we have work to do on both aspects.
Click to expand...

Tarryn Thomas - yeah there’s question marks. There were also plenty of red flags with Stengle, DeGoey, Martin, May etc.

High risk high reward. We don’t need a squad of choir boys. He’d be one of a few in the squad.

The real question is, does he improve us? 100% he would in an area of need. Would he come to Freo? Why wouldn’t he? If answers are yes and if Logue goes to North, then I feel this could get done.
 
prpl_jss said:
Lobb is and has always been massively overrated. Soundly beaten by a shorter, almost-didn’t-play-sick-for-2-days kpd in Moore. Just hung his head and offered nothing all night. Useless campaigner can piss right off. Good riddance.
Click to expand...
One of my mates knows Stephen Coniglio (got a signed jumper at home).

Stephen said to my mate that he feared that Lobb would be lazy and drop off when going to the Dockers.

Lobb seems like a guy who wouldn’t have played in the 1980’s because the money wasn’t there.

While Lobb is lost to our structures, his attitude won’t be.

Anyway, Amiss and Treacy has the attitude to replace him in the medium term.
 
Cobbler said:
Tarryn Thomas - yeah there’s question marks. There were also plenty of red flags with Stengle, DeGoey, Martin, May etc.

High risk high reward. We don’t need a squad of choir boys. He’d be one of a few in the squad.

The real question is, does he improve us? 100% he would in an area of need. Would he come to Freo? Why wouldn’t he? If answers are yes and if Logue goes to North, then I feel this could get done.
Click to expand...
It entirely depends on the nature of the "issue/s".

"Choir boys" doesn't describe Andy or Serong or anybody of that nature. So I don't think its accurate to describe us like that. You don't have to be a ****head, just highly competent.

Goal kicking mids are gold, would take in a heartbeat if we were confident about his character.
 
Scham said:
Lobb is soft both mentally and physically but he's a talented player too.

He's the best that we've got in the role that he plays by a long, long way.

We'll miss him enormously next year if we don't replace him from outside our current list.

Darcy Moore is one of the best in the business and the game was played on the Pies terms.
Click to expand...
This is the issue though. Keeping Lobb is the “safe” option. A bit like persisting with stagnant ball movement instead of taking risks.
Treacy, Jackson, sturt, amiss, they all MIGHT become elite forwards. We don’t know.
We know for certain that Lobb will never be elite.
Ryan Crowley was 100% right recently in the restump pod. We need to keep rolling the dice to find elite forwards.
 
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