List Mgmt. 2022 List Management: Draft, Trade and FA

[freo99]

If we are being fair on comparisons of Meek to Darcy to Pittonett:
Lloyd Meek has played 13 games and just turned 24.
Sean Darcy is the same age with 66 games.
Marc Pittonett is two years older than both of them with 38 games under his belt.

I don't think the comparison is that far off. Sean Darcy was given lots of games ahead of his readiness, it's fast tracked his ability and now that his physical ability is improving he is getting better and better.

Lloyd Meek has not had that same exposure to learning and growth at the top level yet.

Meek played:
No games, No games, No games, Nine games and four games.

Darcy played:
Eight games, Seven games, Eleven games, Fifteen games, Twenty one games and four games.

I think Meek is going to burst onto the scene with opportunity, I think he has a lot of learn still.

Agreed but one thing Lloyd has to learn to do is put his body on the line without having to think about it.

 

[CapitalA]

Unfortunately as good as Darcy is ,he has shown us that he is going to constantly be absent because of injury. He not durable like Gawn or Mundy. You can not rely on him to play 20 games in a year, so keeping Meek would be a priority.

He is only out last week because Curnow stood on his head just unlucky.

 

[freo99]

Yeah I dont think that flies, that's too far under fair value but it would depend a lot on where we end up this year and how we play the Lobb situation.

AFL interference aside, Lobb if they want him + a pick say 12-15 versus nothing I know what I would choose.

Thats not low enough to die on that bridge.

 

[Taylor]

AFL interference aside, Lobb if they want him + a pick say 12-15 versus nothing I know what I would choose.

Thats not low enough to die on that bridge.

The WCE threat is the reason I want the nomination of Freo to be as late as possible. I want the media talking up how WCE are going to just take Jackson for free in the PSD.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

AFL interference aside, Lobb if they want him + a pick say 12-15 versus nothing I know what I would choose.

Thats not low enough to die on that bridge.

I think push come to shove we could do that, but for the same reason Carlton didnt break-up pick 6 last year, AFL teams normally trade in good faith

 

[freo99]

I think push come to shove we could do that, but for the same reason Carlton didnt break-up pick 6 last year, AFL teams normally trade in good faith

If that’s what happens we are acting in good faith, we need to be prepared to lose him if that’s the case.

As I see it Carlton didn’t break up pick 6 as we would have been prepared to bite the bullet, as it is he was bargain basement definitely worth 2 x 1st rounders.

Melb. do own us in the trade dept. + it would be good to inflict something back.

 

[Tbonefreo]

Lobb has looked good for us this year. He's a scary man.

 

[wakojako]

Lobb has looked good for us this year. He's a scary man.

Imagine what he could do if he had the courage and footy brain of Hawkins.

 

[Scham]

Unfortunately as good as Darcy is ,he has shown us that he is going to constantly be absent because of injury. He not durable like Gawn or Mundy. You can not rely on him to play 20 games in a year, so keeping Meek would be a priority.

I agree. He seems to succumb to injury easier that most players but hopefully he'll toughen a bit as he gets older, his body will become stronger, and as he progresses and the end of his career becomes closer each game played will become more precious.

 

[Taylor]

I wonder if he rolls into Christmas back home with his MRI scan to ask his sister what she thinks about his knee.

 

[theGav56]

Yeah I dont think that flies, that's too far under fair value but it would depend a lot on where we end up this year and how we play the Lobb situation.

In a different scenario but perhaps comparable, Darcy for English and a 1st rounder. If Darcy was leaving it would be the kind of trade I would want.

I'm not saying Lobb = English but they aren't that far apart.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

In a different scenario but perhaps comparable, Darcy for English and a 1st rounder. If Darcy was leaving it would be the kind of trade I would want.

I'm not saying Lobb = English but they aren't that far apart.

Hmm, I'd have em pretty far apart because of the age difference. Pick around 10 for English, pick around 30 for Lobb.

 

[freo99]

I agree. He seems to succumb to injury easier that most players but hopefully he'll toughen a bit as he gets older, his body will become stronger, and as he progresses and the end of his career becomes closer each game played will become more precious.

He’s a big boy + he has a hunger for the ball + jumps straight in, of course he gets injured, so do
others around him.

 

[sherrif]

Imagine what he could do if he had the courage and footy brain of Hawkins.

People don't like admitting when they're wrong about a player so they go back to their previous narratives when a player wasn'r doing well. Lobb's a key for us because he spends so much time on the ground. He regularly plays 96%+ of game time. The fact he can ruck with very little off ground time allows is a key to how we can rotate so many pressure forwards on and off the ground. His ability to have a contest when outnumbered has been super important this year too.

 

[sherrif]

I'm sorry but that's incorrect, uncontracted/contracted absolutely makes a difference for exactly the reason that he gets to pick where he goes. Melbourne stiffed us on Langdon (uncontracted), we stiffed St Kilda on Hill (contracted), Carlton stiffed us on Cerra (uncontracted), Adelaide reamed Sydney on Dawson (uncontracted / PSD leverage).

Jackson will get what he wants, if that's to go to Freo, he'll go to Freo and Melbourne will have to be satisfied with the capital we have available. Do you think GWS was happy getting a bunch of low picks in the teens for Cameron? No, but that's what Geelong had to offer, it's the exact same thing.

If Jackson nominates us, there is no scenario we had over players we dont want to lose

In nearly all trades of uncontracted stars the team gets good market value. Even in your examples that's the case. Langdon's disposal was what led Melbourne to get him cheaply. His value had decreased due to how it looked like it would always be an issue. Adelaide got a future first from Melbourne. Even if that pick is 18 that's hardly getting reamed at the trade table plus the risk of going into the PSD and getting to a team is far greater with the lowest finishing teams. For a 29 year old the cats played a very high price in trading. The Cats traded Picks 13, 15 and 20 heading to the Giants. GWS gave back two future second round selections in the deal. Most Cats fans seem to think they payed massive overs. Plus if Cerra's worth pick 6 and a future third then Jackson's worth way more than that even as an uncontracted player. He easily worth what Adelaide payed for Lever.

 

[sherrif]

Is Jackson the most over hyped overrated young tall in history? Andy Brayshaw is worth Jackson and more.

Jackson had an amazing 3/4 quarter in the GF. No question he is a promising young tall, moves extremely well for someone of his size. I’d love him on the list. He’s nowhere near a top 10 player in the AFL which Brayshaw is right now at 22 years old.

let me show you this de-identified comparison. Which ones Lobb and which ones Jackson?

No. He only committed to afl full time the season he got drafted. Jackson's improvement has been staggering for a young tall.

 

[Dockeroo]

In nearly all trades of uncontracted stars the team gets good market value. Even in your examples that's the case. Langdon's disposal was what led Melbourne to get him cheaply. His value had decreased due to how it looked like it would always be an issue. Adelaide got a future first from Melbourne. Even if that pick is 18 that's hardly getting reamed at the trade table plus the risk of going into the PSD and getting to a team is far greater with the lowest finishing teams. For a 29 year old the cats played a very high price in trading. The Cats traded Picks 13, 15 and 20 heading to the Giants. GWS gave back two future second round selections in the deal. Most Cats fans seem to think they payed massive overs. Plus if Cerra's worth pick 6 and a future third then Jackson's worth way more than that even as an uncontracted player. He easily worth what Adelaide payed for Lever.

Agreed there’s no precedent for uncontracted players going much cheaper than if they were contracted. Maybe a little bit but not huge. E.g. if Cerra had one year left last season, we probably would have gotten pick 6 & 25 instead of pick 6 and a future 3rd.
That’s about the difference contract status makes.

 

[sherrif]

The big issue post Jackson nominating Freo is that we kind of need that to happen AFTER we have traded out Lobb and or Meek, not before.

Fremantle negotiating with a club like the Bulldogs (after they've lost English) for Meek is a player being poached, a player very important to our squad given the number of games he has filled in for Darcy missing.

If we have Jackson already that is a rubbish claim, Meek is right on the outside of selection.

The same is true of Lobb who would be playing the exact same position as Jackson.

Both Meek and Lobb are in contract and required players, until Jackson is coming. Then they are contracted but their positions are vulnerable.

Ideally the Dogs deal quickly for English to the Eagles. Both the Dogs and Cats are chasing Meek hard and Fremantle is only willing to consider the trade of Meek for a first round pick, eventually one of them comes to the table - let's say it's Geelong for pick #12 and we make out like bandits - but they were desperate.

Then we have Jackson nominate us. We offer Lobb, pick #12 (from Geelong) and #16 for Jackson and their pick #36.

I think that is overs for him out of contract, but it achieves the result.

There is no way known Meek gets a first rounder and will almost certainly struggle to gain a second rounder judging by what second rucks normally go for at trade historically. Why keep repeating something that has zero chance of coming true? He got outplayed by their much maligned but athletic ruck/forward in Stanley on the weekend. Why would they look to downgrade their ruck stocks?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

In nearly all trades of uncontracted stars the team gets good market value. Even in your examples that's the case. Langdon's disposal was what led Melbourne to get him cheaply. His value had decreased due to how it looked like it would always be an issue. Adelaide got a future first from Melbourne. Even if that pick is 18 that's hardly getting reamed at the trade table plus the risk of going into the PSD and getting to a team is far greater with the lowest finishing teams. For a 29 year old the cats played a very high price in trading. The Cats traded Picks 13, 15 and 20 heading to the Giants. GWS gave back two future second round selections in the deal. Most Cats fans seem to think they payed massive overs. Plus if Cerra's worth pick 6 and a future third then Jackson's worth way more than that even as an uncontracted player. He easily worth what Adelaide payed for Lever.

Any Cats fan that think they paid overs in that deal is purely angry they didn’t get him as a FA and they are wrong. How are we determining market value? historically, you get get above whatever market value is if they are contracted anyway, that’s the point. I’ve given two clear examples in the Kelly and Cameron trades where uncontracted stars of the competition went to a high performing team and so the team losing the player could only accept what the other team had to offer, even though they should have received a top 10 pick as part of the deal on fairness. Anyway, you’ve already seen people who think the offer I’ve suggested is too much, so that’s just those Cats fans.

I maintain, two average firsts and Lobb is more than enough and we’d likely get something small back depending on where we finish this year.

 

[Scham]

He’s a big boy + he has a hunger for the ball + jumps straight in, of course he gets injured, so do
others around him.

So, other players that don't get injured??? They don't go in hard?

 

[Ge3ks]

So, other players that don't get injured??? They don't go in hard?

Maybe those ones go in soft and squishy.

 

[One_Wing]

Unfortunately as good as Darcy is ,he has shown us that he is going to constantly be absent because of injury. He not durable like Gawn or Mundy. You can not rely on him to play 20 games in a year, so keeping Meek would be a priority.

This time it was a concussion though. Could literally happen to anyone.

 

[Taylor]

There is no way known Meek gets a first rounder and will almost certainly struggle to gain a second rounder judging by what second rucks normally go for at trade historically. Why keep repeating something that has zero chance of coming true? He got outplayed by their much maligned but athletic ruck/forward in Stanley on the weekend. Why would they look to downgrade their ruck stocks?

We might have watched a different game. They had the same number of score involvements and Meek had 4x the clearances, same number of inside fifties.

Meek had his head jumped on after a horrible turnover though

 

[freo99]

So, other players that don't get injured??? They don't go in hard?

I didn’t say that, I didn’t allude to that either.

But now that you’ve raised it, yes there are plenty of players that not only don’t put their
body on the line and others that have a good look first.

Several weeks ago Rory Lobb was injured when Sean just went for the mark, against Carlton he
was criticised for the face pulled when he was determined to win the ball in a ruck contest.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

sherrif and Dockeroo, what do you think we’d have to give for Jackson if he chooses us? Keeping in mind that two firsts and Lobb is essentially all the capital we actually have available anyway and on points, equal to about the Kelly trade, even though the Kelly trade involved a lot of smaller picks and pick swaps to get there