List Mgmt. 2022 List Management: Draft, Trade and FA

[Dockernut]

Are we any chance of snagging young Tregenza? Seems a natural, true forward. You know, unlike the mids or rucks we play as forwards currently.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Sam Edmund saying we've been lowballing everyone this year to fit Jackson in. Now I don't mind if Banfield is put off by that, but if it costs us Logue (or anyone else good now or later) as well, then I am not ok with that.

I am very uncomfortable with this trade.

I know we've discussed this and I understand the reasons for not being comfortable with the trade but trust when I say that any lowballing of players has absolutely nothing to do with fitting Jackson in. We were legitimately after Brayshaw as well as Jackson and we've apparently upped our offer again to Logue. If we lose Logue it's because he's chased a godfather offer from North and there's nothing to be done about it

 

[guidodp15]

As long as

Sam Edmund saying we've been lowballing everyone this year to fit Jackson in. Now I don't mind if Banfield is put off by that, but if it costs us Logue (or anyone else good now or later) as well, then I am not ok with that.

I am very uncomfortable with this trade.

Aish and Logue re sign it’s a good overall deal

 

[theGav56]

Coaching is no doubt crucial to any improvement, but it is interesting to compare the level of talent we have in the forward line compared to the back half.

The backline is oozing with early draft picks and prized junior talent. Compare this to the forward half and it's like chalk and cheese!

Indeed we have an unbalanced list, but we have invested significant draft picks in terms of trade capital to fix our forward issues. And Logue is showing some potential forward and I feel certain Chapman could as well. Reality is we have opted for another defensive minded coach and the forward line needs to catch up.

 

[oldgoat]

That's not where you'll find the cheating, it's in the lesser players signed to small contracts that have their total payments brought up to market value by external agreements that lets Carlton pay the big names at market rate.

The likes of Fogarty, O'Brien, Durdin, Plowman, Marchbank, Newman, Fisher, Newnes, Ed Curnow, Setterfield, Owies etc on base contracts can open up an extra million dollars to spend. We aren't talking about huge money here, $200,000 contracts down to $100,000 with the extra from Visy achieves that extra million.

Its also a restraint of trade issue.
Other clubs cannot match the real package that the player is on (without cheating) so cannot fairly compete for their services.
It is also detrimental to AFLm players as a group because it undermines their collective strength, which is what underpins the rates for non stars.

 

[Square Peg]

I know we've discussed this and I understand the reasons for not being comfortable with the trade but trust when I say that any lowballing of players has absolutely nothing to do with fitting Jackson in. We were legitimately after Brayshaw as well as Jackson and we've apparently upped our offer again to Logue. If we lose Logue it's because he's chased a godfather offer from North and there's nothing to be done about it

Does this tie in to the possibility of salary cap rorting though? Next year why won't we see, say, de Koning or Balta who are both out of contract at end of 2023, getting godfather offers to entice them away from Geelong or Richmond? Maybe one reason we won't see it because they're already on undeclared godfather payments but modest official contracts to stay where they are.
The big clubs with big corporate backers are seemingly playing by different rules. They seem to not lose players they want to keep. Is it kulcha, better management, or corruption?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Does this tie in to the possibility of salary cap rorting though? Next year why won't we see, say, de Koning or Balta who are both out of contract at end of 2023, getting godfather offers to entice them away from Geelong or Richmond? Maybe one reason we won't see it because they're already on undeclared godfather payments but modest official contracts to stay where they are.
The big clubs with big corporate backers are seemingly playing by different rules. They seem to not lose players they want to keep. Is it kulcha, better management, or corruption?

Both? There are serious benefits outside cash from playing at a big VIC club that make it easier to keep players. The fact they extort the salary cap as well just makes it that bit harder.

 

[theGav56]

Does this tie in to the possibility of salary cap rorting though? Next year why won't we see, say, de Koning or Balta who are both out of contract at end of 2023, getting godfather offers to entice them away from Geelong or Richmond? Maybe one reason we won't see it because they're already on undeclared godfather payments but modest official contracts to stay where they are.
The big clubs with big corporate backers are seemingly playing by different rules. They seem to not lose players they want to keep. Is it kulcha, better management, or corruption?

You don't think our players have any side deals going on? That'd be disappointing and something we could improve on. Surely Jackson would appeal, or Brayshaw or Serong. What do Logue and Mundy get for their podcast? And if we aren't doing this, why not?

 

[Taylor]

Its also a restraint of trade issue.
Other clubs cannot match the real package that the player is on (without cheating) so cannot fairly compete for their services.

On the whole, yes, but individually all the players can be paid their market value elsewhere - the AFLPA will take issue with players being considered complicit in the shifting of salary cap burden off the Total Player Payments (salary cap), but they are in effect if they have taken clearly lower offers to remain under the agreement that they will be paid externally.

I think Kurt Tippet and Greg Williams are the only players to face sanction from the AFL over their club tampering with payments or contract agreements to subvert the draft - the more systematic ones just get worn by the clubs.

But as I said previously, the journalist looking into it will be banned from AFL events immediately, their boss will get a call at the newspaper or studio and the investigation will be closed and only when it's entirely undeniable and clearly out in the open will that journalist be welcomed back and the AFL, having been made to look bad, will bring that wrath down on the club to save face... but it's the absolute last thing they want to do.

 

[Descent]

After seeing what Adelaide are throwing at Rankine, I’m very happy with $800,000-$1,000,000 for Jackson.

 

[Square Peg]

You don't think our players have any side deals going on? That'd be disappointing and something we could improve on. Surely Jackson would appeal, or Brayshaw or Serong. What do Logue and Mundy get for their podcast? And if we aren't doing this, why not?

If we're losing Logue on the basis of not having enough to pay him, we're doing it wrong.
Lobb I don't care about, he'll be 30 at the start of next season, he was traded in, he's already paid enough. Logue is a first round pick that we've developed, loves the club, 25 next year and entering the peak of his career. You don't lose players like that unless you're doing something wrong

 

[Paracleet]

You don't think our players have any side deals going on? That'd be disappointing and something we could improve on. Surely Jackson would appeal, or Brayshaw or Serong. What do Logue and Mundy get for their podcast? And if we aren't doing this, why not?

Absolutely guarantee it was very much 'made worth his while' for Pav to stay back in the day. What we don't have is a mechanism to do it systemically since that involves a benfector prepared to lose money on it. Sure Alcock will do you a home at cost but spread across a contract its only a minor incentive*.

Carlton I suspect have been rorting it outright but the league has turned a blind eye as they have been a rabble for literally 20 years (only reached 14 wins in a season once since 2001. 13 wins once and only 3, legitimately qualified for, finals series. No Grand final appearances since 1999) and they would prefer them to be a bit more competitive. Why Geelong are allowed to get away with it is more of a mystery.

*Thinking about it it's probably a pretty good incentive for guys getting traded in.

 

[Paracleet]

It's worth dwelling on those Carlton numbers. They make us look like Hawthorn in comparison.

Same period we are 13 or more wins 8 times, 8 finals series and 1 GF.

 

[Paracleet]

Interestingly we have never made the finals with less than 13 wins, and 7 of the 8 are 14 wins or more.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Interestingly we have never made the finals with less than 13 wins, and 7 of the 8 are 14 wins or more.

Good stats, so we just had a better regular year than Carlton have had since 2001 and when we make finals, we do it with a good year, none of this scraping in business

 

[Outshined]

It's worth dwelling on those Carlton numbers. They make us look like Hawthorn in comparison.

Same period we are 13 or more wins 8 times, 8 finals series and 1 GF.

Same as Essendon I'd argue - an unwavering belief that their VFL history provides a right to success. The 00s salary cap breaches and continued rorting through Pratt and Visy more broadly are symptomatic of it, just as the supplements saga was for the Dons. It was great watching Barham insist Essendon are a destination club after missing out on Clarkson to North Melbourne.

We'd be naïve to think that Fremantle aren't looking for a competitive edge by pushing the envelope as closely as possible but the big Vic teams are in a different league. It makes them being a non-entity for two decades even more amusing.

 

[Swiggy]

Are we any chance of snagging young Tregenza? Seems a natural, true forward. You know, unlike the mids or rucks we play as forwards currently.

Looks a player will take time.

 

[Paracleet]

Good stats, so we just had a better regular year than Carlton have had since 2001 and when we make finals, we do it with a good year, none of this scraping in business

We have never finished 8th after H & A and only finished lower than 6th once (we finished 7th in 2012 with 14 wins and a percentage of 115.7. Weird year. Every side in the finals had a percentage of 112.5 or better. Saint Kilda finished 9th on 12 wins and a % of 123!)

 

[Cobbler]

Logue - I think this will all come down to where he sees himself in our lineup. Obviously money talks too, but he seems a loyal type of bloke, team orientated etc. If our club has said we see you as excess to our preferred back 7 but someone we wish to develop as a forward then he may grasp that opportunity on less pay. He also fits straight in should we have an injury to a tall back 7 player. BUT if he feels he's a defensive first player and a club has come with a cheque book and promise to bolster their back 7, then that may be hard to not accept.

I find him very hard to place in our line up. He's not best back 7 if everyone fits. I personally don't view him as a forward, although he's been impressive so far in that unknown role. So in a silly sort of way he's not best 22 despite demanding it... yes I know, that doesn't make sense.

I think he's the best insurance player of probably all clubs.

In all seriousness if Taberner, Lobb and Fyfe were all genuinely fit to play as forwards, Logue is the one getting dropped.

Anyway, I actually hope he signs. He's been very reliable this year. If he goes, It won't bother me that it means Amiss and Treacy get more looks.

If some talls in our backline get injured, and Logue has left, well that will suck.

 

[Freo Jail]

What about Esava Ratagolea, only gets a game at Cats when there is an injury. He could be the next Chol, starved of oppurtunities. Surely a 3 year deal would be appealing to him?

 

[_007_]

I know that the evidence suggests otherwise but I fail to see how having Pearce, Logue and Cox in the backline is too cumbersome. Pearce and Logue should lock down and mitts Cox can be a much lighter, less fat version of Jeremy McGovern

20

Jeremy Mcgovern

Age

32

Ht

197cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

4.6

3star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

238.7

4star

D

12.4

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

183.4

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

7.2

5star

T

1.4

4star

.

 

[Cobbler]

Here’s a complete left field one that is next to 0% chance of happening and doesn’t exactly fill a need.

Tarryn Thomas

26

Tarryn Thomas

Age

24

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.3

5star

CL

0.9

3star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.2

4star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

0.4

3star

?

Last year this kid was building and breaking out. This year it’s been well published of his on field issues.

189cm possible high half forward role.

Signs extension until 2024 but has completely fallen out of favour and form.

Thoughts?

 

[Bastyy]

Here’s a complete left field one that is next to 0% chance of happening and doesn’t exactly fill a need.

Tarryn Thomas?

Last year this kid was building and breaking out. This year it’s been well published of his on field issues.

189cm possible high half forward role.

Signs extension until 2024 but has completely fallen out of favour and form.

Thoughts?

from what I've heard I think he'll be staying with Clarko showing up

 

[freo1997]

from what I've heard I think he'll be staying with Clarko showing up

Not sure if these North players have realised the new coach is a hard ass.

Holiday is over roo boys.

 

[Ge3ks]

After seeing what Adelaide are throwing at Rankine, I’m very happy

Care to share?