Training 2022 Pre-season

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I would back the Dogs & other top 4 sides to overwhelm us with that backline
I just don't believe the Zorko talk is true
We lose so much with one of the AFL's best mids out of our midfield
Gain very little if anything should he take a half back role
I can only see positives.

Zorko would offer more run, and defence than Birchall. Coleman and Starcevich are both good defensively. Really the only one of the seven defenders who might be considered a weak defender is Rich.

As for overhead marks being a weakness of Zorko, that really only becomes an issue if he’s against a much taller opponent. Most teams these days play multiple small forwards, so having another small defender to partner Coleman is a good thing. And from memory, the vast majority of Birchall’s marks in the defensive 50 were largely uncontested, so you would hope for the same with Zorko.
 
AFL Midfield Player rankings points which basically cover the last 2 seasons. So Zorko is still an elite mid.
(1) Bont 592 points, (2) Petracca 583, (3) Oliver 572, (4) Liberotore 545, (5) Martin 534,
(6) Macrae 532 , (7) Wines 516, (8) Lyons 506, (9) Steele, (10) Parish
(11) Miller (12) Dangerfield 486, (13) Neale 481, (14) Merrett 478, (15) Zorko 477.0
(16) Parker, (17) Walsh 453, (18) Boak 441, (19) Mundy 441, (20) Tom Mitchell 440
......
Throwing all AFL players to rankings.
(1) Nic Nat 619, (8) Gawn 524, (17) Harris Andrews 477.9, (19) Grundy 474, (20) Crisp 462

This moves our guys overall to (10) Lyons, (15) Neale, (17) Andrews (18) Zorko. Four in the top 20 is not bad
 
I don't mind the idea of Zorks going back for a couple of seasons to see out his career, will offer the run out of the back 50 that we have been crying out for and pace to cover speedy small forwards.

That would mean within a couple of seasons we will have to find long term backline replacements for Zorks and Richy... we have a few that could fit the bill eg. Darcy Wilmot, Carter Michael, Jaxon Prior, Noah Answerth, James Madden.
 

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I can only see positives.

Zorko would offer more run, and defence than Birchall. Coleman and Starcevich are both good defensively. Really the only one of the seven defenders who might be considered a weak defender is Rich.

As for overhead marks being a weakness of Zorko, that really only becomes an issue if he’s against a much taller opponent. Most teams these days play multiple small forwards, so having another small defender to partner Coleman is a good thing. And from memory, the vast majority of Birchall’s marks in the defensive 50 were largely uncontested, so you would hope for the same with Zorko.
Nice discussion
Where you see positives i see an untried defender that is still rated top 20 player in the AFL as a midfielder
If he takes Birchall place in the team it won't be the same role
Can't see him being loose in the backline taking uncontested marks like Birchall
He is very good defensively/pressure acts and many other things as a mid. So he would have to use those traits if moved to defense

Maybe the rumor has something to do with Rayner slotting into a full mid role
We all have high hopes for Cam but he also is unproven in this type of role (80% Mid)

Training watchers need to see if Zorko is training with the backs.
I imagine we won't know till the intraclub or preseason, So, will leave this alone for a few weeks until then
 
Nice discussion
Where you see positives i see an untried defender that is still rated top 20 player in the AFL as a midfielder
If he takes Birchall place in the team it won't be the same role
Can't see him being loose in the backline taking uncontested marks like Birchall
He is very good defensively/pressure acts and many other things as a mid. So he would have to use those traits if moved to defense

Maybe the rumor has something to do with Rayner slotting into a full mid role
We all have high hopes for Cam but he also is unproven in this type of role (80% Mid)

Training watchers need to see if Zorko is training with the backs.
I imagine we won't know till the intraclub or preseason, So, will leave this alone for a few weeks until then
I was more thinking it would be a chance for someone like Matho or Dev to cement a more full time mid role.
Less likely to be Matho as he is too similar to both Neale and Lyons.
 
I see Zorko playing a role like Laird played for many years before this past year. So not a defender per se but more of a link between the defense and the midfield.
Yeah I agree, as well as a bit of an organiser for the midfield proper with regards to defensive positioning. Kind of like the role Hodge played in his time on field with us, only a little closer to the action.

If it wasn't Zorks I'd have gone for Neale playing this role. (For those thinking he is too young to move out of the midfield, Ashcroft was only 29 when he shifted to half back for the 2001 season. Neale will be 29 in May.)

I'm a fan. On balance I think we need to get at least one of the "old firm" (Zorko/Neale/Lyons) out of the midfield to get some of the younger blokes (McCluggage/Bailey/J Berry as a start) in there more often. Gives us a better mix and we had great success with them in there last year, particularly McCluggage.

Also, out of all the players at the club, I only know him from the way he speaks in interviews etc... he is the one bloke I would say is most willing and desperate to do whatever it takes to experience the ultimate success, including playing a sacrificial role if needed - captain or not. So I think if the rumour is true he will embrace the new role and channel his already vocal on field tendencies accordingly.
 
Nice discussion
Where you see positives i see an untried defender that is still rated top 20 player in the AFL as a midfielder
If he takes Birchall place in the team it won't be the same role
Can't see him being loose in the backline taking uncontested marks like Birchall
He is very good defensively/pressure acts and many other things as a mid. So he would have to use those traits if moved to defense

Maybe the rumor has something to do with Rayner slotting into a full mid role
We all have high hopes for Cam but he also is unproven in this type of role (80% Mid)

Training watchers need to see if Zorko is training with the backs.
I imagine we won't know till the intraclub or preseason, So, will leave this alone for a few weeks until then
I have no expectations for Cam this year. Anything he provides is a bonus.
 
I'm keen to see this happen, at least during the preseason, but I am conscious that Fagan has done this over the preseason in the past, only to revert to type within a couple of matches.

I think Fagan likes to take a look at novel ideas like this over summer (it's the right time to experiment) but I suspect he also uses it to keep his more mature player fresh and focused. Zorko probably wouldn't gain much having another season training with the mids but learning a different role, playing with a different group, might be a good way to develop some new skills or provide a different perspective.

I don't think we lose a lot in terms of ball winning by losing Zorko out of the mids and I think guys like Bailey and Rayner (and maybe a fit JBerry) could replicate some of the explosiveness Zorko provides. What we will be giving up is one of the best pressure mids in the comp. Each player going into the midfield to replace Zorks will need to considerably lift their defensive pressure.
 
Nice discussion
Where you see positives i see an untried defender that is still rated top 20 player in the AFL as a midfielder
If he takes Birchall place in the team it won't be the same role
Can't see him being loose in the backline taking uncontested marks like Birchall
He is very good defensively/pressure acts and many other things as a mid. So he would have to use those traits if moved to defense

Maybe the rumor has something to do with Rayner slotting into a full mid role
We all have high hopes for Cam but he also is unproven in this type of role (80% Mid)

Training watchers need to see if Zorko is training with the backs.
I imagine we won't know till the intraclub or preseason, So, will leave this alone for a few weeks until then
Totally agree with your observations. I reckon the Gerard Healey article is a fill in story as it is a slow news week. Zorko just won our best and fairest as a mid/forward so why would you change his position? also he has never played in the backline during his career. He is in competition for a backline position with Coleman, Madden and Ainsworth all who would be desperate to do well there. He will be in competition with Cockatoo, Rayner and Tom Berry for a forward spot. He might play a little longer as a forward this year to give a few younger players midfield experience but that’s all I reckon might happen.
 
The other "trial" that was floated by Chris Fagan very early in the pre season and I would put more credibility in is Brandon Starcevich into the midfield. I wouldn't be surprised if Wilmot gets an early crack at the running defender spot if the Zorko back scuttlebutt turns out to be horseshit. Also it has been discussed a bit over the last few seasons but maybe this is the season Mitch Robbo is passed by a younger mid, eg Starcevich/Robertson/Sharp/T.Berry. Personally I think Starcevich will end up staying back for this season at least and Zorks will play similar to how he has been.

Meaning the back 7 could look like this >

Darcy Gardiner, Harris Andrews, Daniel Rich.
Dayne Zorko/Darcy Wilmot, Marcus Adams, Keidean Coleman.... Jaxon Prior/Brandon Starcevich.

Depth- Jack Payne, Noah Answerth, Ryan Lester, James Madden, Carter Michael.

We are a bit light on for KPD depth, hopefully Harris, Marcus and Jack hold up this season.
 
The way everyone talks about Answerth when he’s mentioned says to me if he’s fit he’ll be in the team, after the way Coleman finished last season I think he should also get first crack. I just don’t see the spot for Zorko to start in the backline, could he float back there during play like what was mentioned with Neale last season, sure I can see that. Just can’t see him being picked as one of our 7 defenders.
 
Zorko to defense does not feel right to me.
However i am a bit of a fan of certain midfield players moving into a half back flank role
Zorko is a super player but his weakness is overhead marking and being small does not help.
Caleb Daniel is a similar size but he is a fairly reliable overhead mark when put in that position and under pressure compared to Zorko

Who does Zorko replace ??. Will it be a small and how does it affect our balance in defense.

I doubt it will be Starcevich & hope it is not Kiddy.
Then we have Answerth, Madden, Ah Chee, Carter Michael, Darcy Wilmot & possibly Prior

Like most teams we have many players on our list that can play midfield or stints in the midfield
Tier 1: Zorko (player mentioned), Neale, Lyons, McCluggage, Bailey
Tier 2: Robbo, J Berry, Cam Rayner could easily move into tier 1 on potential
Tier 3: Dev Robertson, Jackson Prior, Sharp & Mathieson
Tier 4: Yet to debut - E. Smith, J Tunstall & maybe Lohmann
Forwards that can play midfield - McCarthy, Cockatoo, Charlie, CEY & maybe T Berry

Who would i choose from the above list that is "a major positional move for a very important player".
I would choose Mitch Robbo or Jared Berry over Zorko
However don't see the need for anyone at present
Once intraclub games start we may get a better idea of coaches intentions

Wasn't Lachie Neale mentioned last year as playing stints in defense
From memory he did play small stints in defense preseason. That may have been due to injury worries at the time
I also hope it is not Kiddy, he has indicated he is comfortable down back and can provide some genuine run out of the back. FWIW, proposing to move Zorko likely just pre season talk, as you mentioned same thing last year with Neale
 

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A fit Rayner, a fit Cockatoo, a fit JBerry, not to mention Robertson, means we have a lot of “fringe” mids or mid forwards pushing for game time on ball through the midfield.

Personally I’d rather see other (younger) players get a crack at Birchall’s position, but if we have to move Zorko back, to change up our midfield look, I’m not against it.
 
I don't think Zorko would be playing the Birchall role. I think it is likely he would be playing a zone defensive role outside defensive 50 and then aiming to be the first receiver from kicks coming out of defense with the possessions being received around the 50 or toward centre for a longer kick. That kind of running role would suit him and his ability to find space would help out the defensive unit quite a lot. They played Prior a little bit in that type of role last year but he did not find space particularly well. So for me I would expect a behind centre role if it eventuates rather than a defensive role.
 
A fit Rayner, a fit Cockatoo, a fit JBerry, not to mention Robertson, means we have a lot of “fringe” mids or mid forwards pushing for game time on ball through the midfield.

Personally I’d rather see other (younger) players get a crack at Birchall’s position, but if we have to move Zorko back, to change up our midfield look, I’m not against it.
I am not an avid supporter of the Zorko move if it were to happen.
But I can see the benefits both in the backline and the opportunity for others to get more midfield time.
If Clugga and Bez were to get more time in the midfield it will open up more time for one of the young boys on the wing and if Robbo were to start the year a bit down on form, the wings may be the most open and getable positions for young fellas to step up.
With AhChee, Tom Berry, Madden, Dev, Prior, Sharp, Wilmot, Lohmann and Ely Smith all vying for and capable of playing on the wing, makes for some good internal competition.
 
I don't think Zorko would be playing the Birchall role. I think it is likely he would be playing a zone defensive role outside defensive 50 and then aiming to be the first receiver from kicks coming out of defense with the possessions being received around the 50 or toward centre for a longer kick. That kind of running role would suit him and his ability to find space would help out the defensive unit quite a lot. They played Prior a little bit in that type of role last year but he did not find space particularly well. So for me I would expect a behind centre role if it eventuates rather than a defensive role.
Agree that by adjusting Zorko's role it would be far more beneficial to team structure than moving him to half back. Assuming that's what you mean
To advance further into finals we need to tweak a few things and that could be one
I see more midfield time and TOG (81.38% last year) for Bailey
Rayner a bit of an unknown at this stage
 
So Harris Aandrews or Marcus Adams take an intercept mark deep in defence, two players loop around them for a handball and the relieving kick. One has a booming left foot the other a booming right foot, both have good vision and are mostly deadly accurate. They may even take a handball of each other depending on the downfield options or even where the 'open paddock' is. It's a good option for launching attacks of the half back line and would make the team more unpredictable and both can drive forward and kick long goals from the 50 meter or beyond. We know where Rich will start the only question is if Zorko has to start in the backline or drift there more often. He is our best tackler in the midfield and most often tops our tackle count and is near the top of the league for tackles. Personally I don't think I'd bust him up in defence with his ageing body and leg issues I rather him just drifting back as part of the game plan and maybe not going to deep forward as often. We were caught out in a few games last year (Melbourne was one) where they had a midfield stay behind the play. With Rayner back, Linc able to play midfield and Cockatoo fit I could see Zorko staying back a little more after the centre bounce has cleared and we don't feel like we have 'robbed Peter to pay Paul'.
 
So Harris Aandrews or Marcus Adams take an intercept mark deep in defence, two players loop around them for a handball and the relieving kick. One has a booming left foot the other a booming right foot, both have good vision and are mostly deadly accurate. They may even take a handball of each other depending on the downfield options or even where the 'open paddock' is. It's a good option for launching attacks of the half back line and would make the team more unpredictable and both can drive forward and kick long goals from the 50 meter or beyond. We know where Rich will start the only question is if Zorko has to start in the backline or drift there more often. He is our best tackler in the midfield and most often tops our tackle count and is near the top of the league for tackles. Personally I don't think I'd bust him up in defence with his ageing body and leg issues I rather him just drifting back as part of the game plan and maybe not going to deep forward as often. We were caught out in a few games last year (Melbourne was one) where they had a midfield stay behind the play. With Rayner back, Linc able to play midfield and Cockatoo fit I could see Zorko staying back a little more after the centre bounce has cleared and we don't feel like we have 'robbed Peter to pay Paul'.
Dusty plays a centre bounce and then rolls forward of the ball, so we play Zorko opposite to that by playing him at the centre bounce and he rolls behind the ball.
I don’t mind it if we win Centre Clearances with him in there.
 
Dusty plays a centre bounce and then rolls forward of the ball, so we play Zorko opposite to that by playing him at the centre bounce and he rolls behind the ball.
I don’t mind it if we win Centre Clearances with him in there.
Who from Richmond is doing the switcharoo with Dusty?

If Zorko was rolling forward, we could have Rayner or Cockatoo switching with Zorko.

But who could we start in defence and roll in to the midfield?
 
Who from Richmond is doing the switcharoo with Dusty?

If Zorko was rolling forward, we could have Rayner or Cockatoo switching with Zorko.

But who could we start in defence and roll in to the midfield?
Starce would be the obvious one.
Could leave Starce as a lockdown in case the oppo wins a quick break from Centre bounce.
But it would depend on whether Zorko is then playing as a true defender or just playing behind the Ball, playing more as a loose-man in the defensive half.
 
I remember getting in a blue with Jackess a while ago when I suggested that Zorko's future was as a back of centre player and not as a forward.

After a decade of getting targeted ,punished and stalked playing as the hunter instead of the hunted would give him a real lease of life and I believe would be a genuine surprise to ourselves and our opponents.

He's lost a yard of pace which is critical when you're playing as an ageing forward and generally morphs you into a defensive role there, but still has pace to burn compared to most backmen. Plus running onto the ball rather than having to get it and turn really helps. He's got the experience and the smarts. My two cents worth is that it's a great idea worth trying . Developing other players for the M/F /forward role for which he's probably not getting any better at if we want to contend for a flag.
 
The other issue is he's half got the yips when he's near the goals and those miracle goals that he used to kick at will are now more often than not disappointing slews or misdirected . He's still easily in our best 5 players and I reckon the disposal thing might not be any real issue once he doesn't have to worry about the sticks and isn't under the same constant pressure.
 
Just read that Tom Joyce is training with West Coast. Only one list spot and 3 train on players. Fingers crossed the young fella gets another opportunity at senior level. Really deserves it and wish him all the best.

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