Preview 2022 Rd 20 Carlton vs Adelaide Saturday July 30 7:30PM @ Adelaide Oval - Team Post #586

[Arr0w]

i dont have the speed stats but running really fast once doesnt make you faster overall - i dont think anyone thinks JSOS is fast do they? He may have it in him once or twice but a full game, i dont think so

Spot on, Jack and Honey did have "a" top 5 sprint for the day, but Mots was top 5 for average high speed. Was also top 5 for defensive workrate

 

[FRUMPY]

Not a lot slower than Owies or Motlop though

JSOS isnt a small fwd, not even close - motlop and owies are miles ahead of him in that role.

 

[FRUMPY]

Motlop is just a pup but he goes to ground way too often and is then out of the play. Something he will get better at as he gets bigger/fitter and taught to keep his feet

On a side note, how young did Mots and in particular Durdin look in the social media video the other day, durdin looks about 14

 

[Stamos]

JSOS isnt a small fwd, not even close - motlop and owies are miles ahead of him in that role.

I know he's not a small forward.
But we were comparing speed, and the pressure that a combination would bring.

 

[marcmurphy3]

I think Hewett being out and us wanting Fisher to play primarily up the ground in his place has something to do with the silvagni non selection as well.

If we had of dropped Motlop instead of SOS it would have left us with only Durdin and Owies as small forwards both who play lowish TOG. Would mean there is often only 1 on the field. I think our game plan requires 2 at all times.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Motlop being one out is not great positioning for crumbing. Sure he may have been drawing his man to space but should not have had the ball kicked to him. He is not going to get any crumbs there.

Motlop and Durdin need to be running to the drop of the ball and hitting it with pace. They rarely do this.

When I said he was one out I was referring to being one out at the feet of McKay & Curnow, not out in space with the ball kicked to him. Agree that he shouldn’t be out in space getting the ball kicked to him, but I didn't see that happen. Think Honey's goal was from a mark in space from memory.

We're in agreement they need to be more focused on getting to the drop of the ball

 

[katmanblue]

We have to go with Voss's game plan and preferred structures to understand his team selection(s)

if asked to choose between (for discussion sake) Jack V Motlop/Honey/Durdin/Owies as a third tall and ruck relief with utility capability then Jack wins easy
if asked to choose between Jack and ANY of the above as a speedy defensive small forward - Jack loses

Voss #1 team selection criteria is structure and role ie he is a game plan based coach as all good coaches have to be

then he clears for contested ability
then he clears for form

I don't think Honey/Motlop/Durdin or Owies primary role is crumbling or kicking goals - that is an outcome of the game plan - which is basically pressure on the ball creating turnovers and creating opportunity ie every player on the ground is expected to be able to impact on a contest through pressure which is basically running ability matched to physicality

This explains why certain players who might some boxes eg Dow for burst speed, Stocker for hardness at the contest, aren't getting games - because whilst ticking a box they aren't better at ticking all requirements than current alternatives.

With Pittonet OUT TDK was forced into #1 ruck role and he has developed very well after a poor start. This deprived him of the ability to develop other aspects of his game - forward craft. SOJ came in to be the relief ruck - and he too played well in that role- but in playing that role it lessened his ability to impact as a third tall.

With Pittonetback in TDK is a better second ruck option and a better marking target - so where does Jack fit if he isn't as fast as alternatives in terms of leg speed and isn't as good as others ( Charlie and Harry ) as forward marking targets?

This is the selection dilemma for a team that has developing depth. You can't fit every player that has god attributes into any position just because.

Unfortunately - the weakest part of the list is on the flanks - and Jack hasn't played flanker and certainly doesn't have the defensive each way running capacity of a Cottrell or LoB or Newnes - despite being a better contested player - he won't be able to make the between the arcs long runs all day like they can.

If he was fit - an argument could be made that he is a better alternative to Setterfield on a flank - I don't see too much difference between these two as far as running ability goes. Setterfield is being rewarded for an ok game in the last outing - on a wing. Jack hasn't played wing.

Setterfield easily outruns SOS.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Stamos]

When I said he was one out I was referring to being one out at the feet of McKay & Curnow, not out in space with the ball kicked to him. Agree that he should be out in space getting the ball kicked to him, but I didn't see that happen. Think Honey's goal was from a mark in space from memory.

We're in agreement they need to be more focused on getting to the drop of the ball

Honey's goal was off the ground from a Giants' fumble

 

[ferrisb]

ferrisb strongly disagrees with this...

Watch it Shan! Or I'll jump up and bite your ankles off!

 

[thylacine60]

We won't be getting outmarked too often with Curnow, De Koning and McKay forward. What we need is smalls getting into good crumbing position to win or lock up the ball if it hits the deck.

I imagine that's why Silvagni and Honey are out while Motlop stays in - Motlop had great positioning as a crumbing forward last week but it was usually him alone v 3 or 4 defenders. We need the other smalls to position less as marking targets and more as crumbing forwards.

it's odd watching charlie out the back like a crumbing forward banging through a joseph the long necked farm fowl.............

 

[Beer n Skittles]

What great crumbing did Motlop do last week? Which of his 5 handballs which lead to 0 score involvements was great crumbing?
Honey is out Managed. It's not because his game wasn't as good than in any aspect of forward craft than Motlop's.

I don't think he had a good game. I think he was very much up against it though, and if we had more players at those contests his chance of actually achieving anything would go up.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

JSOS isnt a small fwd, not even close - motlop and owies are miles ahead of him in that role.

I reckon JSOS and Owies are close in terms of play style. Both present extremely well on the lead and are smart moving the ball inside 50.

Motlop and Durdin are more traditional forward pocket crumbers who can create something out of nothing.

Honey somewhere in between.

When Hewett returns and Fisher moves closer to goal we will have more clarity.

 

[SOSforPM]

Omissions make sense…fisher, owies, durdin & Motlop around Curnow, McKay & TDK is exciting.

TDK vs Jack…TDK is a bigger threat in the air and will be a lethal 2nd ruck now. SOS better around the ground but not enough to hold his position.

Jack makes a perfect sub though which is pretty unfortunate for him. Wouldn’t be suprised if he is used as a sub a lot.

Where it gets interesting though is Martin vs jack.

 

[Arr0w]

Guessen - " How does Plow get a game in front of Jack" Yeah, like they play the same role

 

[thylacine60]

Guessen - " How does Plow get a game in front of Jack" Yeah, like they play the same role

only fools listen to guessen..........

 

[Arr0w]

I too listen to guessen..........

 

[thylacine60]

fake news........

 

[Zlatan]

Thilthorpe a potential late change out tomorrow

 

[thylacine60]

what's numbers pre-game routine tomorrow night?

 

[skadoosh]

Thilthorpe a potential late change out tomorrow

 

[HereComesJuddy]

i think our current small forward group is lacking a player like a riolli/puopulo/bruest from the hawks flag era or filths elliot. fast and furios but good in the air as well.

honey is probably the closest to these types in terms of body size and athletics but he is a long way off in terms of ability compared to those types.

the forward pressure of the hawks smalls when they were winning flags was immense.

Would kill for a K Pickett or Rankin addition

 

[BlueJet]

Again, I look at comments here and on facebook and right off the bat, people are up in arms about JSOS being dropped. Those saying it doesn't matter how they word it are missing something here. The club have been getting a lot right but this is not great fan engagement is it?

Just because we are flying in so many ways, it doesn't mean we can't acknowledge when something isn't handled right.

Omitted, Rested, Managed, Injured. 3 of those everybody says 'fair enough'. The other one we wonder what the coaches are seeing that we aren't and we wonder why a player we all see as all guts and all heart is not rated internally as much as we rate him. But at least, we know what to think.

Personally, I think that he's quite clearly been dropped & replaced with Pittonet. (Whether you disagree is a separate matter)
Are we after spin to make the Silvagni fans happy?
What does that then say to others that share a similar fate and have to wear the 'omitted' label?

 

[slowhand clape]

I’d like to see TDK play the role Harry has been occasionally playing, presenting up on the wing. This would then leave Harry and Charlie both inside 50 most of the time.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

what's numbers pre-game routine tomorrow night?

There’ll be a big hill walk, bit of washing done, then old mate & I are into the Committee Room at 6pm for the dinner (last year was soft shell crab!!!) & palate cleansing ales.

Pretty sure the game starts at 7pm…….after that…..who knows.

We should win but.

 

[thylacine60]

There’ll be a big hill walk, bit of washing done, then old mate & I are into the Committee Room at 6pm for the dinner (last year was soft shell crab!!!) & palate cleansing ales.

Pretty sure the game starts at 7pm…….after that…..who knows.

We should win but.

tie? collar? socks?