Autopsy 2022 Rd 23 Choked again. Season Done.

[4flagsin5yrs]

So we just ignore the games where he kicked 5 straight, or 5.1, or 6.3, or 6.1, or 4.2 (twice), or 5.3, or 4.1?

Let's just s**t all over his year by looking at the last 2 in isolation.
What needs to change, is there needs to be a more even contribution across the ground, from quarter to quarter and from week to week.

He was far from the only reason we lost, but he didn't do his job the last few weeks.

Nor did Harry for that matter.

 

[katmanblue]

This is why the Papley deal falling through still irks me so much. He's the one that would be putting the nail in the coffin in these games.

We need an irrational self confidence guy in the forward line.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

I'm not blaming him for the goal directly, no. Lots of other things come up. However, it's a part of the process.

Defenders are matchup players, as well as in a system. In this game it looked as though Stocker had the job on Elliott as opposed to using a system based defence entirely. If Stocker has the matchup on Elliott then if he can't go with him in the big moments then it's a liability.

I don't think it's that hard a concept. Weitering and Young played 100% of the game for a reason. If Weiters isn't fit enough to be on the field vs the no.1 key forward in the game in the last 5 minutes of the game then absolutely it's a liability.

You are assuming way too much. You have no idea why he was on the bench for starters. As we've seen rotations can be held up when the ball is on the other side of the ground or buried in a pocket. Stocker completely pantsed Elliott for entire time he was on him. If you want to point the finger at anyone point it at the bench for not having him on.

 

[Coops93]

How do you know he was on the bench because he couldn’t be trusted in big moments? It’s possible they went with that lineup in the end for tactical reasons.

I didn't say it was for tactical reasons, I'd suggest fitness reasons. If it was for tactical reasons then there's no problem.

I was basing it off of Stocker being the matchup for Elliott going into the game then being on the bench in the biggest moment of the match but if it were a tactical shift then there's no fault for Liam.

 

[Rustica]

This is why the Papley deal falling through still irks me so much. He's the one that would be putting the nail in the coffin in these games.

You can thank that campaigner Dodoro for that. Not only did he **** his own side but ruined our deal as well

 

[The Fantom]

That loss hurts more than any I can remember. Missing finals is a missed opportunity, but our results against the top teams suggest we would have been making up the numbers. L

We beat 4 teams in the 8, lost 3 games by a combined 10pts to Filthywood and Melbourne.

We could have caused damage, we’ll never know. I think we would have played interstate too.

The last two games at the G, I was there, the atmosphere was electric, we gave our all and came up short…. Even though we’ve missed finals, we’ve now got “finals” experience if that makes sense.

Love the club and the players, I’m sure they’ll be feeling as bad as us, if not a whole lot more.

 

[Coops93]

You are assuming way too much. You have no idea why he was on the bench for starters. As we've seen rotations can be held up when the ball is on the other side of the ground or buried in a pocket. Stocker completely pantsed Elliott for entire time he was on him. If you want to point the finger at anyone point it at the bench for not having him on.

Yeah I agree. If it was tactical then that's one thing and absolutely not his fault, I'd suggest poor tactics in that case and whoever was in charge of that rotation is to blame.

If it was stamina related then it's a liability issue in his game is my point, however if it's tactical or otherwise then there's no fault in Liam at all.

 

[Stamos]

This is one brick wall that I'm not in the mood for banging my head against.

Enjoy putting the weight of our whole year on Curnow's shoulders. One of only 3 players to play every game this year, and the only one to have won anything.

I'm not putting the weight of our whole year on Curnow's shoulders.

But we want to be winning flags, not missing the 8 on (a tiny) percentage.
Curnow's decision making on set shots is poor, and is a relatively easy fix. You want to be taking every incremental improvement possible.

 

[Michael Jezz]

I still feel sick to my core. Driving home yesterday my heart felt actual pressure from the result - today still feel worn out and run down. Felt we were a genuine top 4 side this season until injuries got the better of us. Even with the injuries, I expected us to win one of our four games and make the finals. We didn't do that. We lost yesterday and that was one of the more painful things to witness in my life. Yesterday's loss wasn't as bad as last weeks. Last weeks was pure ineptitude in the last. This was something a lot crueler, just some critical moments that didn't go our way. We were also crucified by the umpires yesterday, as we have all year despite the whailing and gnashing of many on this board who claim otherwise. Shocking umpiring. But that doesn't take away from the fact that we should have won the game and didn't. I hope the boys feel half as much pain as I do and build on this for next season. As per Voss' presser that seems to be the case. On to next season - I am going to crawl into a whole and die somewhere, i may not return.

I feel for you. I have followed Carlton since 1978 and that was the worst loss in my lifetime.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Couldn't bring myself to watch Voss's presser until just now and I was very disappointed. "This is going to hurt a bit!" FMD, I am very concerned about his lack of acknowledgement of consistent patterns in the team's performance. Carlton is not a side that improves with the nicey, nicey approach (two decades of disappointment has told us that). Historically, our golden periods have come from brutal recognition of our weaknesses (including tirades from and acknowledgements by key coaches, Barassi and Parkin). Voss seems to be playing the more acceptable "disappointed, but we can take these things out of the game..." type philosophy. I seem to recall this being the mantra for Malthouse, Bolton and Teague (and we know how that panned out) - Ratts to his credit acknowledged trend weaknesses and took us to two finals series (and for those of you who have seen my posts, I was a critic of Ratts for a long time)! Voss, to me, is playing by the Carlton corporate rhetoric strategy....when what we need is a clear and present f'n big boot up the backside. The issue is not our bottom six (we lost our last two games in 2022 by 5 and 1 points after being in front with a few minutes to go and a number of our key players let us down rather than our bottom six). It is a mental issue for the team of not being able to close out games when we get in front. I was thinking 2023 would be a lot better, but at the moment, I'm not that confident.

It is possible Voss, Cook and Sayers think we are better than we are. I, for one, think we need to hit the draft hard before givng up 2nd and 3rd picks or downgrading picks for the liked of Acres

 

[Coops93]

I'm not putting the weight of our whole year on Curnow's shoulders.

But we want to be winning flags, not missing the 8 on (a tiny) percentage.
Curnow's decision making on set shots is poor, and is a relatively easy fix. You want to be taking every incremental improvement possible.

His approach to set shots is a little... amateur. Moreso than his rushing to play on and snap 3 seconds after marking, but his long range set shots he looks to half arse it and his regular set shots look clunky.

I first noticed it against the Suns when he took a mark and iirc was given a 50 right on the siren. The motm was at about 48 or 49 and I thought "Charlie is easily in Charlie range here" and he casually walked up/half jogged in then kicked and sure enough didn't make the distance or accuracy, it was a shank. It was like he was taking the set shot from 65 and knew he wouldn't make the distance so just jogged in for a laugh and threw a foot at it. He does this often for long range set shots despite actually being in range.

It's symptom of his wider approach to set shots generally, I don't think he has a process at all for any part of the ground. Just walks as though he's kicking in the park.

Even though H is an iffy set shot he clearly has a process for each spot on the ground. Sure he misses drop punts 50% of the time but I reckon if you played 4 side by side they'd all be somewhat similar, same with his snaps.

 

[prisoner777]

I don’t know. I got the feel listening to Vossy’s presser that he was just trying to be measured at the time but behind closed doors honest conversations will be had

I agree with what you are saying, but my points go more to a cultural thing around Carlton that has existed for many years (if not since day 1). Our greatest successes have come with coaches who were right up front, not playing the corporate line. I feel that today, that "internal" cultural pressure impacts the coach(es) even when they are with the players behind closed doors. There are things Vossy says that we can find mirror comments from our last five coaches. From honourable losses, to green shoots, to what we've learned and can take away......there seems to be a repeating pattern, yet at the end of successive seasons still great disappointment. Believe me, any negativity that others perceive in my comments, is only because I desperately want Carlton to live up to its potential (I was so fortunate to have experienced that golden period from 1970 to 1987)....a potential we have continually not achieved in the past two decades plus. If we storm into the finals next year I will be the first to say I'm wrong (just as I've acknowledged I was very critical of Ratts as coach but now accept he is the best coach we have had in almost two decades....the jury is out re Vossy).

 

[Arr0w]

It is possible Voss, Cook and Sayers think we are better than we are. I, for one, think we need to hit the draft hard before givng up 2nd and 3rd picks or downgrading picks for the liked of Acres

The draft won't improve our fortunes next year, unless we are adding mature age players that can have an impact immediately

The bulk of improvement will come within the core group, or as you suggested, adding someone like an Acres

 

[gab213]

I feel for you. I have followed Carlton since 1978 and that was the worst loss in my lifetime.

Recency bias. No way that this one hurts more than losing Grand Finals, especially shuddering at the thought of '73 and '93 here.

 

[prisoner777]

It is possible Voss, Cook and Sayers think we are better than we are. I, for one, think we need to hit the draft hard before givng up 2nd and 3rd picks or downgrading picks for the liked of Acres

Not sure about that. We lost our last two games by 5 and 1 point. Not too much wrong except that we can't close out games against quality opposition when we are ahead with 5-10 minutes to go.

 

[El Topo]

The draft won't improve our fortunes next year, unless we are adding mature age players that can have an impact immediately

The bulk of improvement will come within the core group, or as you suggested, adding someone like an Acres

First year players can (and do, for other clubs) make an impact in our areas of weakness - unless the recruit is a bargain or an import from a successful team, the draft is where we'll get the most bang for our buck

 

[mochacinolatte]

The draft won't improve our fortunes next year, unless we are adding mature age players that can have an impact immediately

The bulk of improvement will come within the core group, or as you suggested, adding someone like an Acres

Acres would be a huge get, great winger.

 

[The_MCG]

Plus a midsize fwd play maker, JSOS is the only one good at it. Durds, Motlop, And Owies are horrible options in the middle of the ground and most of the time get spoilt when we try passing it to them. 3 smalls fwds and Fisher hasn’t worked imo. Wish we could have put Gov there

Sounds like we're keen on getting Acres from Freo.

 

[The_MCG]

In retrospect, that game against the Crows really derailed our season.

Not only did we drop the 4 points that would have had us playing Finals, we also lost both Kennedy and Newman for the season. Two exceptionally dependable players who would have made a positive difference yesterday and last week.

Losing against the Saints was a worse loss. Kicked ourselves out of it, and we gifted them so many goals from turnovers.

 

[myblueroan]

It is possible Voss, Cook and Sayers think we are better than we are. I, for one, think we need to hit the draft hard before givng up 2nd and 3rd picks or downgrading picks for the liked of Acres

Can't believe I'm agreeing with you Michael but. Damn right.

 

[Kruezing]

Recency bias. No way that this one hurts more than losing Grand Finals, especially shuddering at the thought of '73 and '93 here.

This … nothing compares to losing grand finals … thankfully our record once we do get there is excellent …

 

[mochacinolatte]

First year players can (and do, for other clubs) make an impact in our areas of weakness - unless the recruit is a bargain or an import from a successful team, the draft is where we'll get the most bang for our buck

Honestly dont even know what we should do with our Pick 10 anyways. Who do we need to even draft? Which player we want? We got good depth, its just unfortunate that everyone got injured at the same time. We got a lot of first rounds pick running in the 2s developing.

I guess only role we probably need is a small forward?

 

[Arr0w]

First year players can (and do, for other clubs) make an impact in our areas of weakness - unless the recruit is a bargain or an import from a successful team, the draft is where we'll get the most bang for our buck

1 player at the pick we have would only play a minimal role. We won't have access to the likes of a Walsh, Smith, Rozee, especially in this draft

You see guys like Rachelle have somewhat of an early impact to his career, but that didn't really change the fortunes in overall output to the Crows

 

[myblueroan]

Not saying those we have in mind are..don't know their work but we need great quality players. Great kicks and high footy IQ'S. Don't have to be well known. Need to be calm under pressure too.

 

[myblueroan]

Hope everyone is ok.
Must have been bloody awful to cop that at the game.
Thinking we'd be thrashed
Then that comeback
Then that end.
Absolutely shite.
So hold on to next year and stronger fitter injury free players.