List Mgmt. 2022 Trade and Free Agency Thread

[Jivlain]

 

[Optimistic Dog]

The info is we will accept 21 and F1 we may get a garbage third. You screwed as over big time he is worth every bit and more than Tarranto's 12 and 18. He could be the difference of winning the flag next season.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought players can nominate terms for the PSD? If so how does this fantasy exist that the Bulldogs can take him on a one year contract if he enters the PSD?

They can nominate terms, but the logic is that Dunkley wouldn't risk nominating anything long term considering North takes him every single day of the week no matter what the terms are. He's not going to the PSD, but in the fantasy land scenario that he did, he'd almost certainly go with the single year so he can request a trade again the following year since he wouldn't have ended up at Brisbane. Regarding the Dogs, there's 0 chance we'd get him in the PSD since there's 10 teams ahead of us

 

[Tom14]

They're probably assuming that they'd accept his six year terms thinking he'd be asking for a trade at the end of 2023.

Just a guess.

If he went in PSD he’d nominate 1 year terms to deter teams from picking him given he’d be OOC in 2023, and a FA if the dogs picked him up again for another year.

 

[BangyBangy]

The info is we will accept 21 and F1 we may get a garbage third. You screwed as over big time he is worth every bit and more than Tarranto's 12 and 18. He could be the difference of winning the flag next season.

Can we just see what the balance of the Tarranto & Hopper trade is before we jump to conclusions using the Tarranto trade being a measuring stick?

 

[spotthedog1]

I think he'd get to us in the PSD. Doesn't matter though, a trade will be done.

PSD a maybe. I think he'd get taken early with minimal risk.

100% agree though, the trade is following the exact same pattern of every other big name trade, and magically it'll all be sorted by the deadline.

 

[Happy_Neale]

They can nominate terms, but the logic is that Dunkley wouldn't risk nominating anything long term considering North takes him every single day of the week no matter what the terms are. He's not going to the PSD, but in the fantasy land scenario that he did, he'd almost certainly go with the single year so he can request a trade again the following year since he wouldn't have ended up at Brisbane. Regarding the Dogs, there's 0 chance we'd get him in the PSD since there's 10 teams ahead of us

Oh right, fair enough. I’d still be of the opinion that he would get to us in the PSD regardless to be honest. Has flat out said he doesn’t want to be at the Dogs and has already moved to Brisbane. Other teams would be silly to pick him up in that scenario.

 

[Nunez]

L

The info is we will accept 21 and F1 we may get a garbage third. You screwed as over big time he is worth every bit and more than Tarranto's 12 and 18. He could be the difference of winning the flag next season.

What was Schache worth when we traded him with two years to run on his contract?

Ultimately, we did right by the player and let a pick 2 go for crazy unders. We're offering fair value - at most slight unders - and your club would know that and will accept the offer. Don't cast stones in glass dog kennels, mate.

 

[Scubaveg]

The info is we will accept 21 and F1 we may get a garbage third. You screwed as over big time he is worth every bit and more than Tarranto's 12 and 18. He could be the difference of winning the flag next season.

What info?


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[briztoon]

I have two questions for the draft experts . The first is do you have to the same number of players as draft picks? As an example let’s say you swap a higher draft pick for two or three lower draft picks to accumulate extra points for an academy player or father son pick but you don’t have the same number of players off you primary list. Can you do this? The way I see it we have more picks than players off our list . Lower draft picks are easy to accumulate but harder to swap. I just would like an explanation of how it works. The next question is let’s say we get Dunkley but as a result do not have enough points to get both Ashcroft and Fletcher. Do points come off our 2023 draft automatically to allow us to pick up Fletcher anyway? If someone in the know can explain the machinations of the draft process it would be appreciated

You can only take as many picks to the draft, as you have available list spots. Right now, we're speculating that we'll delist a couple of contracted players (who we could live with losing, if the unlikely event occured), to be able to take 5 picks to the draft.

Things get a little hazy at the draft. When a bid is made, it's possible to trade a pick or picks, for multiple picks worth more in points, so right then, you can match a bid with more picks, than you have actual list spots. This requires another team willing to sacrifice one or two of it's own picks. Sometimes you are also trading a future pick of some value, in such a trade. This has happened in the past, as some teams permanently run with a shorter list, or want to keep a list spot open for the SSP.

We can go into deficit on our 2023 picks, up to a point. The afl won't let you carry an unlimited debt in to the future. Because of the North PP's in next years draft, the deficit limit is somewhat reduced next year. Traditionally it is capped at;
Pick 18: 985 points
Pick 36: 502 points
Pick 54: 220 points.
Pick 72: 19 points.
Total : 1726 points

Trade out a future pick, and you subtract that's picks points value from the total. So if you have traded out your future first round pick, you're allowed to carry a 741 points deficit. If you have more picks in one round, you add the points value of the previous pick. For example you hold two third round picks, well you add (54) 220 + 53 (233), and no first round pick, you can carry over a 974 points deficit.

A teams points deficit is paid the following year, after the end of the season, right before the trade period begins, so you and other teams know exactly what picks you have to trade with.

When you pay the points deficit, it comes off the corresponding rounds pick/s that the original bid was made. So if Fletcher is bid on at pick 16 in the first round (**** Collingwood), our deficit comes off our future first round pick, but if we have traded that out, it comes off our future second round pick, and uses up as many picks as needed.

Unless you win the flag, in reality you will have more actual points to pay for any deficit, than what the afl rules limit a deficit to. If you finish third, your second round pick will actually be worth (34) 542 points, third round pick will be worth (52) 245.

 

[Warwick]

What info?


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A foxsports article..

 

[spotthedog1]

If he went in PSD he’d nominate 1 year terms to deter teams from picking him given he’d be OOC in 2023, and a FA if the dogs picked him up again for another year.

We've seen how much cash a top 10 pick is worth. He could stick $1m on for 1 year. The Roos would be able to pay him, and call it $700k reasonable salary, so only $300k investment towards trade out value. If in 12 months you haven't convinced him to stay (remember, he changed his mind on preferred destination before), trade him out for 1-2 first rounders. That's worth $300k easily.

 

[briztoon]

L


What was Schache worth when we traded him with two years to run on his contract?

Ultimately, we did right by the player and let a pick 2 go for crazy unders. We're offering fair value - at most slight unders - and your club would know that and will accept the offer. Don't cast stones in glass dog kennels, mate.

A token 4th round pick. And EVERYONE knows it.

 

[briztoon]

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought players can nominate terms for the PSD? If so how does this fantasy exist that the Bulldogs can take him on a one year contract if he enters the PSD?

He would sign on for one more year, to then hit his restricted free agent trigger, and leave to a team of his choice in 2023, with Bulldogs possibly receiving a first round compensation pick.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Oh right, fair enough. I’d still be of the opinion that he would get to us in the PSD regardless to be honest. Has flat out said he doesn’t want to be at the Dogs and has already moved to Brisbane. Other teams would be silly to pick him up in that scenario.

Honestly I think it'd be close to a certainty that a team picks him up with the hopes of convincing him to extend long term over the course of 2023. Especially a side like West Coast who have a history of strong performance. The PSD is a result where no one wins, and I don't imagine either club would actually let it get to that point. Pickering is a smoothbrain, I wouldn't listen to anything he says publicly, dude's just panicking about the prospect of one of his high profile clients failing to land at his desired destination for the second time.

Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised if the trade goes through tomorrow

 

[ZoBlitz]

Three more days, only three more days...

(Still much better than the first Beams trade period)

 

[Scubaveg]

A foxsports article..

No that’s different. Old mate was referring to pick 21 and a F1st, fox article had a lot more then that going on.


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[Mighty Lions]

The info is we will accept 21 and F1 we may get a garbage third. You screwed as over big time he is worth every bit and more than Tarranto's 12 and 18. He could be the difference of winning the flag next season.

Mate, the Tarranto deal was huge overs and is not a precedent for all other deals to be done after that despite what you and your fellow supporters believe. The issue here is that Dunkley wants to get out of your club and move to another he believe's will be a better fit. He's voiced this publically now for a couple of years so your club now needs to do the right thing for him and get him to the club of his choice for a fair deal. (which the Lions are trying do) The language from your coach saying the Lions need to "pony up" is a disgrace....he really is a piece of work and not just in this instance.
I'm confident a deal will be done soon.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Mate, the Tarranto deal was huge overs and is not a precedent for all other deals to be done after that despite what you and your fellow supporters believe. The issue here is that Dunkley wants to get out of your club and move to another he believe's will be a better fit. He's voiced this publically now for a couple of years so your club now needs to do the right thing for him and get him to the club of his choice for a fair deal. (which the Lions are trying do) The language from your coach saying the Lions need to "pony up" is a disgrace....he really is a piece of work and not just in this instance.
I'm confident a deal will be done soon.

The deal is as good as done way unders but done. Good player but good riddance to him not sure why he cracked with us we gave him a flag in first season must have his reasons. The coach you are referring to may have faults but what he got out the team in 2016 was unbelievable. Also he is currently not stood down pending investigations.

 

[Scubaveg]

The deal is as good as done way unders but done. Good player but good riddance to him not sure why he cracked with us we gave him a flag in first season must have his reasons. The coach you are referring to may have faults but what he got out the team in 2016 was unbelievable. Also he is currently not stood down pending investigations.

And why are you so adamant the deal had been done?


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[McIvor]

Mate, the Tarranto deal was huge overs and is not a precedent for all other deals to be done after that despite what you and your fellow supporters believe. The issue here is that Dunkley wants to get out of your club and move to another he believe's will be a better fit. He's voiced this publically now for a couple of years so your club now needs to do the right thing for him and get him to the club of his choice for a fair deal. (which the Lions are trying do) The language from your coach saying the Lions need to "pony up" is a disgrace....he really is a piece of work and not just in this instance.
I'm confident a deal will be done soon.

This is what annoys me the most about Dogs fans putting up this trade and what GWS received as a precedence for this trade.

I would concede that it may be close to a similar trade if Richmond and GWS were only negotiating the one player. But they're NOT. Richmond are also getting Hopper, so they've clearly paid overs on this trade with what they have to pay less for Hopper and I have no doubt this will come out in the wash.

 

[BangyBangy]

The deal is as good as done way unders but done. Good player but good riddance to him not sure why he cracked with us we gave him a flag in first season must have his reasons. The coach you are referring to may have faults but what he got out the team in 2016 was unbelievable. Also he is currently not stood down pending investigations.

Really? You had to go there? That says more about you.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Really? You had to go there? That says more about you.

Says more about the bulldogs that he still wants to come to us despite the allegations against our coach

 

[Grasshopper17]

You can only take as many picks to the draft, as you have available list spots. Right now, we're speculating that we'll delist a couple of contracted players (who we could live with losing, if the unlikely event occured), to be able to take 5 picks to the draft.

Things get a little hazy at the draft. When a bid is made, it's possible to trade a pick or picks, for multiple picks worth more in points, so right then, you can match a bid with more picks, than you have actual list spots. This requires another team willing to sacrifice one or two of it's own picks. Sometimes you are also trading a future pick of some value, in such a trade. This has happened in the past, as some teams permanently run with a shorter list, or want to keep a list spot open for the SSP.

We can go into deficit on our 2023 picks, up to a point. The afl won't let you carry an unlimited debt in to the future. Because of the North PP's in next years draft, the deficit limit is somewhat reduced next year. Traditionally it is capped at;
Pick 18: 985 points
Pick 36: 502 points
Pick 54: 220 points.
Pick 72: 19 points.
Total : 1726 points

Trade out a future pick, and you subtract that's picks points value from the total. So if you have traded out your future first round pick, you're allowed to carry a 741 points deficit. If you have more picks in one round, you add the points value of the previous pick. For example you hold two third round picks, well you add (54) 220 + 53 (233), and no first round pick, you can carry over a 974 points deficit.

A teams points deficit is paid the following year, after the end of the season, right before the trade period begins, so you and other teams know exactly what picks you have to trade with.

When you pay the points deficit, it comes off the corresponding rounds pick/s that the original bid was made. So if Fletcher is bid on at pick 16 in the first round (**** Collingwood), our deficit comes off our future first round pick, but if we have traded that out, it comes off our future second round pick, and uses up as many picks as needed.

Unless you win the flag, in reality you will have more actual points to pay for any deficit, than what the afl rules limit a deficit to. If you finish third, your second round pick will actually be worth (34) 542 points, third round pick will be worth (52) 245.

This is great. Thanks heaps briztoon. So then, am I right in saying that in the event of a deficit, it is possible for a club's first pick to actually end up being AFTER its subsequent picks, assuming the deficit is less than the points value of that first pick?

(ie say you have a deficit of 980 points and you win the flag, suddenly your pick 18 becomes pick 80 or whatever, so is below your other picks. Is this right?)

 

[rye]

The info is we will accept 21 and F1 we may get a garbage third. You screwed as over big time he is worth every bit and more than Tarranto's 12 and 18. He could be the difference of winning the flag next season.

if this is screwing you guys over big time....

how would you describe the treloar deal?

 

[RoyBoy17]

The info is we will accept 21 and F1 we may get a garbage third. You screwed as over big time he is worth every bit and more than Tarranto's 12 and 18. He could be the difference of winning the flag next season.

Good player don’t get me wrong but not that good. I don’t think he’s elite but certainly a very good pick up needs wise.