List Mgmt. 2022 Trade and Free Agency Thread

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McIvor said:
How so martinson? HEard similar?
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Sort of. Zac hasn't had the same fire he had early in the season which has been put down to covid. Also doesn't look as breezy as he always has. So it'll be interesting to see how he finishes off the year.

You forget how young these guys are relatively. They go through emotional stages . Mates are everything. I do remember when I was 23 . It wouldn't have taken much to set me off.
 

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McIvor said:
Someone I know on the Coast says that Dan and Zac are very close, so I have no doubt Zac will likely request a trade in a year or two. Looking very very a far, since the news about Dan leaving has come out, Zac doesnt look happy at all and his form has gone out the window. Perhaps a very long bow but since was told that, I cant see Zac being a one club player either.
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Mmmm yes, perhaps.
 
martinson said:
Perhaps you're right. If he was blindly loyal.

Except he did say he thought he had more good footy left in him .

And he was right.
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I said that in jest. The fact is Dan would absolutely stay if we were offering a comparable deal financially. We can't afford it and he's making a decision based off his future with an eye to life after football. He was very loyal to us in years we were leaking players. To begrudge him for leaving is highly emotional and illogical. I get footy is an emotional hobby for many, but we need to remember these are human beings in jobs that are incredibly short lived. You've got to do what is right for you and your family, even if it means leaving the job & club you would rather stay at.
 
Nunez said:
He has had many serious offers over the years to leave yet has stuck with us. These were during our dark years too no less. Yet, despite very good offers he stayed. The only reason he may be leaving now is due to the 500+ thousand dollars extra he will get if he does. Would you turn that down?

He has been very loyal to the club and given the money on offer I can't blame him if he takes it. I would.
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Dan stayed for a long time, under crap conditions at the club. Can't get more loyal than that.

Being old and having had health problems that stopped me from working for a few years, and ended full time work forever, my advice, given his history with the club, would be take the money and bank it as insurance against the crap that happens in life. 500k buys a lot of peace of mind.

Make way for the young guys to have their chance at developing.

Guarantee he will feel sad about leaving.
 
Gadzorks said:
Dan stayed for a long time, under crap conditions at the club. Can't get more loyal than that.

Being old and having had health problems that stopped me from working for a few years, and ended full time work forever, my advice, given his history with the club, would be take the money and bank it as insurance against the crap that happens in life. 500k buys a lot of peace of mind.

Make way for the young guys to have their chance at developing.

Guarantee he will feel sad about leaving.
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I take a slightly different view.

I’m all fine with player movement, you win some you lose some.

With Dan, I reckon we gave him more leniency and opportunity to devalop than most clubs ever would have considering his biggest out put us what? 28 goals?

I don’t think he had many options to leave during our crap years, let’s be real, he was happy to be somewhere that gave him free reign to play.

We persisted for a long time with little reward. I always think, you give A Corn, Lyle, Skinner - any of those guys the same green light (never to be dropped) time to devalop and they proably reach his level too.

I know first hand from a recent ex player that there was angst amougst the playing group about the ‘undroppable ’ approach taken to Dan over a player like Skinner.

if he was ‘loyal’ which I don’t expect him to be, he would stay on 5 xs 500k or what ever we are offering. He is apparently other wise very happy, has unfinished business with us and we have put A lot of time into him (that others wouldn’t have) to get him to where he is today.

He is choosing a few extra hundred K after tax, which again, is all cool - but all up and considering, I think in sporting terms, him staying would proably be the admirable thing to do.

But so would have Lachie staying at Freo and Charlie staying at the Crows - what goes around comes around these days.
 
Why would we expect AFL players to be loyal? This isnt a suburban league from 80 years ago with clubs being broke local ventures between a band of mates. This is a professional business with cutthroat metrics. We weren't loyal to Nick Robertson after he shut down Dusty in that 2019 finals series. Delisted him the Monday afterwards. We weren't loyal to Keays. Bloke had been playing for the Lions throughout his schooling. Family has connections to the club and he is a Brisbane local. He only got to play NEAFL as a contested mid and we always through him out of position in the AFL. The Crows gave him a chance and he has resurrected his career. Would we be offering McStay anything if Harry Mackay decided he wanted to head north and become more annonymous like Daniher? McStay should look after his family. He will have very few opportunities to earn that much money in his 40s and 50s. We only focus on the Brown types earning big media dollars. I'd venture most AFL jobs (like assistant coaching etc) barely make 6 figures. I am guesing its less for roles like runners/fitness coaches/allied health etc. There is not unlimited numbers of AFL jobs. Most likely Dan won't ever make anywhere near mid 6 figures ever again after this contract. We should play Dan if we think he can win us a flag and then maximise whatever return we get to make our future list stronger
 
McIvor said:
Someone I know on the Coast says that Dan and Zac are very close, so I have no doubt Zac will likely request a trade in a year or two. Looking very very a far, since the news about Dan leaving has come out, Zac doesnt look happy at all and his form has gone out the window. Perhaps a very long bow but since was told that, I cant see Zac being a one club player either.
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Fake news.
 
martinson said:
Sort of. Zac hasn't had the same fire he had early in the season which has been put down to covid. Also doesn't look as breezy as he always has. So it'll be interesting to see how he finishes off the year.

You forget how young these guys are relatively. They go through emotional stages . Mates are everything. I do remember when I was 23 . It wouldn't have taken much to set me off.
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Seriously...you guys can make a story out of nothing like the media sometimes. Dan & Zac are not close. Zac is going through a form slump at present and I am sure he will bounce back soon. Players have form slumps throughout their careers. Ordinary, Good & Exceptional players all have form slumps, it's nothing more complicated than that.
 
McIvor said:
Someone I know on the Coast says that Dan and Zac are very close, so I have no doubt Zac will likely request a trade in a year or two. Looking very very a far, since the news about Dan leaving has come out, Zac doesnt look happy at all and his form has gone out the window. Perhaps a very long bow but since was told that, I cant see Zac being a one club player either.
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Better drop him then. :D
 

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McIvor said:
Im confused, how do you say McStay or any player is loyal if they leave? Doesnt sound like they are loyal at all. John Brown, Dan Rich, Zorko, Simon Black, Rob Copeland, Darryl White etcetra - that is loyalty to me.
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Does it work only as player loyalty to club? what about the other way then?
Treloar offloaded by Pies? where does that sit in your loyalty compass?

Club must be terrible delisting all those players every year. where's the loyalty from Brisbane Lions ?
 
mpal6 said:
Does it work only as player loyalty to club? what about the other way then?
Treloar offloaded by Pies? where does that sit in your loyalty compass?

Club must be terrible delisting all those players every year. where's the loyalty from Brisbane Lions ?
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Maybe there is a little bit of that in this case as well.
I have heard that our offer is closer to the 400k mark rather than 500k that has been speculated, so if he is being offered closer to the 600k mark then the club may be lowballing him a little bit?
I don’t blame him for wanting to leave because it is a lot of money to leave on the table for someone like Dan who I can’t really see as being offered a media gig or coaching after his time is up, so take the money and run Dan and I wish him all the best and no matter what anyone else says, thank you for the loyalty that you have shown to the club thus far and I hope you can go out on a high.

But having said that, he better be prepared for the Tidalwave that is the Collingwood Football Club and the Pressure that comes with it.
 
lionraven said:
Why would we expect AFL players to be loyal? This isnt a suburban league from 80 years ago with clubs being broke local ventures between a band of mates. This is a professional business with cutthroat metrics. We weren't loyal to Nick Robertson after he shut down Dusty in that 2019 finals series. Delisted him the Monday afterwards. We weren't loyal to Keays. Bloke had been playing for the Lions throughout his schooling. Family has connections to the club and he is a Brisbane local. He only got to play NEAFL as a contested mid and we always through him out of position in the AFL. The Crows gave him a chance and he has resurrected his career. Would we be offering McStay anything if Harry Mackay decided he wanted to head north and become more annonymous like Daniher? McStay should look after his family. He will have very few opportunities to earn that much money in his 40s and 50s. We only focus on the Brown types earning big media dollars. I'd venture most AFL jobs (like assistant coaching etc) barely make 6 figures. I am guesing its less for roles like runners/fitness coaches/allied health etc. There is not unlimited numbers of AFL jobs. Most likely Dan won't ever make anywhere near mid 6 figures ever again after this contract. We should play Dan if we think he can win us a flag and then maximise whatever return we get to make our future list stronger
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Loyalty exsists is business and in suburban footy leagues? People are trying to poach people all the time and they choose to stay on in a company, because they love the team, haven’t finished a project or don’t want to let them team down.

Loyalty also exists in the AFL - you see examples of it every week.

Player movement is also a great thing and we should not feel too hard up losing Dan, it’s the modern game.

However there is still a tug of war between the elements of the modern business aspects and good old fashioned loyalty to clubs and it’s ok for fans to still want that loyalty from players. It’s what makes these stories so interesting.

Fans should also keep expecting it, of coarse we want our players staying loyal to our club, the whole song and dance would be pretty boring if fans just shrugged their shoulders when a long term player choses to leave their club.

I do agree though that complaining or getting angry or upset at the system or player movement is pointless though, like I said - we got Charlie and Lachie through the same loyalty tug of war, can’t complain too much when one walks out the revolving door.

I do not agree with a club dropping a player for leaving - unless their form warrants it (dans almost did). If it was a young player you might look at who might be better served having their spot to devalop but it would be a pragmatic decision, not an emotional one.

The meet go round is fun and the expectation of loyalty drives the whole thing, really.
 
McIvor said:
Im confused, how do you say McStay or any player is loyal if they leave? Doesnt sound like they are loyal at all. John Brown, Dan Rich, Zorko, Simon Black, Rob Copeland, Darryl White etcetra - that is loyalty to me.
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Clubs are not loyal to players, as soon as they are seen as surplus to requirements they look to off load them quick smart eg. Daniel Bradshaw, Michael Rischitelli, Jason Akermanis and more recently Alex Witherden, Tom Cutler, Josh Walker, Ben Keays etc.... IMO all these players would have preferred to stay at the Lions.
 
Dalions said:
Maybe there is a little bit of that in this case as well.
I have heard that our offer is closer to the 400k mark rather than 500k that has been speculated, so if he is being offered closer to the 600k mark then the club may be lowballing him a little bit?
I don’t blame him for wanting to leave because it is a lot of money to leave on the table for someone like Dan who I can’t really see as being offered a media gig or coaching after his time is up, so take the money and run Dan and I wish him all the best and no matter what anyone else says, thank you for the loyalty that you have shown to the club thus far and I hope you can go out on a high.

But having said that, he better be prepared for the Tidalwave that is the Collingwood Football Club and the Pressure that comes with it.
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His offer is loaded as well. 500K is only his if he plays all home & away games otherwise it's diluted depending on games played throughout the year. This type of contract is common but media only report on what his maximum earnings are rather than actual/realistic earnings...dont report the facts if they aren't as newsworthy by exaggerating them. For me, guaranteed $ not dependant on how many games you play in any given season is Priority #1...anything after that is a bonus.
I wish him all the best on wherever he ends up the same as all the players at our club.
 
McIvor said:
PErsonally, I would, but Im driven by different things.

Nonetheless, I still dont understand how you claim Dan is being loyal to the club and yet is turning his back on the club when it needs him. Thats not loyalty - not even close.
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Were Lions loyal to Witherden when they shipped him out?

He was contracted and didn’t want to leave, but was “asked” to explore trade options and told he was no longer considered a required player.
 
lioninthesand said:
I take a slightly different view.

I’m all fine with player movement, you win some you lose some.

With Dan, I reckon we gave him more leniency and opportunity to devalop than most clubs ever would have considering his biggest out put us what? 28 goals?

I don’t think he had many options to leave during our crap years, let’s be real, he was happy to be somewhere that gave him free reign to play.

We persisted for a long time with little reward. I always think, you give A Corn, Lyle, Skinner - any of those guys the same green light (never to be dropped) time to devalop and they proably reach his level too.

I know first hand from a recent ex player that there was angst amougst the playing group about the ‘undroppable ’ approach taken to Dan over a player like Skinner.

if he was ‘loyal’ which I don’t expect him to be, he would stay on 5 xs 500k or what ever we are offering. He is apparently other wise very happy, has unfinished business with us and we have put A lot of time into him (that others wouldn’t have) to get him to where he is today.

He is choosing a few extra hundred K after tax, which again, is all cool - but all up and considering, I think in sporting terms, him staying would proably be the admirable thing to do.

But so would have Lachie staying at Freo and Charlie staying at the Crows - what goes around comes around these days.
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A couple of genuine issues with your comments above.

First, we didn’t “persist” with McStay. We genuinely didn’t have any better KPP’s to play in his stead.

Secondly, Skinner was given every opportunity, unfortunately his acl’s kept letting him down.
 
briztoon said:
Were Lions loyal to Witherden when they shipped him out?

He was contracted and didn’t want to leave, but was “asked” to explore trade options and told he was no longer considered a required player.
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The Witherden scenario was handled well by the club in my opinion. Alex was a contracted player by the club however the club didn't consider Alex as being in their best 22 moving forward hence had the decency & honesty with him to give him the opportunity to find another club where he could play at the highest level. Should Alex not have found his way to The Eagles, he would have stayed at the club but probably played the rest of his contracted time in the 2's. I think (by memory) the Lions even payed some of his wages to get him to the Eagles....great gesture by Brisbane Lions 100% to give him a better opportunity somewhere else. "Shipped him out" is far from the truth but that's how you & others percieve it.
 
A question for McIvor

I believe there's couple of F/S potential A graders available to us in the draft.
I also believe other than McStay everyone on the list wants to remain at the club. Even Robbo if he is offered a contract.
So, my question to you is "Which of the listed players below should we be loyal/disloyal to?


022:
Darcy Gardiner
Thomas Berry
Daniel McStay
Ely Smith
Jaxon Prior
Ryan Lester
Deividas Uosis (R)
Blake Coleman
Dayne Zorko
Carter Michael (R)
Connor McFadyen
Mitch Robinson
Tom Fullarton
Mitchell Cox (R)
 
Last edited:
Isn't it a bit hard to dump on the clubs for 'disloyalty' when they are bound by external rules to turn over at least three members of the playing roster every year? Sure if you are lucky there will be three 'tributes' ready to fall on their own swords each year but that is an variable output vs a set input.

Sure they can cut with careless abandon** or they can agonise over the predicament but it but at no point can any club turn around and say 'this is my roster for the next 10 years and we are not changing it' unless they deliberately draft spuds with no intent to play them and the full expectation of delisting them at the end of their two years of unfairly wasted life.

There are people who leave for what we deem are good and proper reasons and in the fullness of their time here (eg does anyone hold it against Joel Patfull, Luke Power going out or Mitch Robinson, Luke Hodge coming in) while others are seen as someone less loyal eg Lynch GCS->Tigers and some are almost pleased with the transfer eg Rockliff to Power and others are almost in the never to be forgiven camp eg Buckley.



** are we still allowed to use the phrase 'with gay abandon' btw?
 

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