List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading

[Jeffcrowe]

You'd be kidding yourself if you think the AFL would have an answer - let alone tell you about it!
It will be a secret, loose guideline that they invent the week it's needed and allows them to manipulate the outcome as required.

You’d still be asking

But you wouldn’t trust the answer !

 

[Mutineer]

We could not have taken H Himmelberg. We made a bid on him and GWS matched.

Same with Hipwood Richmond's bid was matched by Brisbane and we all know the Charlie Curnow story in the week before the draft, if that doesn't happen he goes way way before that...and odds on he'd have been playing with his brother at Carlton 3 years later anyhow.

Wonderful thing that hindsight hey.

Didn't hear too many screaming on this board when we selected Milera, maybe because they were too busy going full Lindy on selecting Tom Doedee a few picks later.

 

[rabidcrow]

I doubt the compensation would be worth it, the drafts will be heavily compromised.

Have to agree with that. And a very good reason to try to bring picks forward and complete our squad as quickly as possible. Get a couple of things right from here and we could find ourselves in a very good window as sides struggle to improve because of pre selections and compromised drafts


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[Crow till I die]

Tall fine with one-year deal, Saint to wait, Crow wants more

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

SAINTS KEEN TO SIGN YOUNG GUN​

ST KILDA young gun Mattaes Phillipou is loving his time at the Saints and will get through more of the season before looking at extending his deal, with the club keen to lock him in.

Clubs are quick to offer their early draft selections two-year contract extensions on top of their initial standard two-year deal upon entering the competition

 

[Golumless]

Tall fine with one-year deal, Saint to wait, Crow wants more

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

SAINTS KEEN TO SIGN YOUNG GUN​

ST KILDA young gun Mattaes Phillipou is loving his time at the Saints and will get through more of the season before looking at extending his deal, with the club keen to lock him in.

Clubs are quick to offer their early draft selections two-year contract extensions on top of their initial standard two-year deal upon entering the competition

Bit strange they'd wait.

 

[Mutineer]

Bit strange they'd wait.

The Saints aren't waiting, it's Mattaes and his management that are waiting if you read the article.

 

[119others]

We could not have taken H Himmelberg. We made a bid on him and GWS matched.

actually Hipwood was also part of Lions NGA and not available (unless Lions didnt match). Someone did bid on him also and Lions used crappy picks to mathc

 

[whoa_vardy]

I used to do the salary cap for a Vic based club. They aren't getting any special treatment when it comes to cap space.

They aren't getting special treatment under cap space, but things outside of it maybe.

By publishing players' salaries it's clear what teams have to offer to in order to secure free agents. It brings full transparency to the free agency process, which, for some reason, the AFL is seemingly against.

 

[Crow till I die]

The Saints aren't waiting, it's Mattaes and his management that are waiting if you read the article.

Its a nothing burger..the media are trying to make it sound all positive but reality is that there is no rush as he still has next year before he would be OOC

 

[WeeBlake]

The Saints aren't waiting, it's Mattaes and his management that are waiting if you read the article.

It’s a smart move by him if he expects to have a good year. Sign in the week after his RS nom or something…

 

[courageous_tom]

They aren't getting special treatment under cap space, but things outside of it maybe.

By publishing players' salaries it's clear what teams have to offer to in order to secure free agents. It brings full transparency to the free agency process, which, for some reason, the AFL is seemingly against.

A player's salary is made up of all sorts of incentives, and changes week by week depending on the amount of games they play and other milestones they hit. Even the club paying the salary doesn't know what the player's total salary will be for the year until well after the season has finished.

The AFL has full transperancy regarding each players salary and incentives. They're across it all. The player's manager is also across it, and will almost certainly be sharing that info with rival clubs in order to negotiate offers etc. So the player's club is across it, the AFL is across it, and potential suitors are across it.

The only people who are in the dark are the general public, who don't really need to know. It also gives click bait journos more ammo to go through and write articles about how player x is on salary y and how they're not justifying their pay. Totally not helpfull to the player or club.

The AFL can release more info regarding the free agency compo, but that's a different discussion than 'release player's salary data'

 

[dplggr47]

The Saints aren't waiting, it's Mattaes and his management that are waiting if you read the article.

It's best he waits. He's shown good signs but not enough to warrant a Daicos like extension. If he shows significant improvement later in the year, he could negotiate a better extension deal.

 

[rabidcrow]

It's best he waits. He's shown good signs but not enough to warrant a Daicos like extension. If he shows significant improvement later in the year, he could negotiate a better extension deal.

I reckon Saints will get nervous if he hasn’t signed just after the bye. Yes he isn’t going anywhere straight away but pretty much all top draftees extend pretty early (or leave)

You would expect that he does stay though


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[GreyCrow]

A player's salary is made up of all sorts of incentives, and changes week by week depending on the amount of games they play and other milestones they hit. Even the club paying the salary doesn't know what the player's total salary will be for the year until well after the season has finished.

The only people who are in the dark are the general public, who don't really need to know. It also gives click bait journos more ammo to go through and write articles about how player x is on salary y and how they're not justifying their pay. Totally not helpfull to the player or club.

Fair and reasonable but I will point out the NFL have total transparency on wages and expected earnings and even KPIs needed to reach certain targets

Nick Murray had to endure the ridicule of people knowing he spent more time playing the X-Box than studying game film they made it part of his contract negotiations - now maybe $234m changes things a little but even the lowliest rookie contracts are shown . For people with significant environmental factors growing up these could be dangerous releases - but it still happens

As to your final point the articles will get written either way - at least the general public will know enough to dismiss these clickbait articles

 

[FR0GGY]

A player's salary is made up of all sorts of incentives, and changes week by week depending on the amount of games they play and other milestones they hit. Even the club paying the salary doesn't know what the player's total salary will be for the year until well after the season has finished.

hey mate good to see someone who was actually involved in a club on here.
How does that actually work with the salary cap, can clubs only work using everyone’s maximum earning potential?

 

[courageous_tom]

hey mate good to see someone who was actually involved in a club on here.
How does that actually work with the salary cap, can clubs only work using everyone’s maximum earning potential?

At various points of the season, before the draft, before the season etc. Clubs submit a detailed salary estimate to the AFL to show that they'll be under the cap. It's basically a spreadsheet where you enter in all of your players, their base salaries, and an estimate of the number of games each will play throughout the year. At that point, you won't actually have a full list yet, so some of the players might be 'pick 10' and 'pick 35' - but draftees are all on standard contracts anyway, so it's no trouble to estimate.

Lots of players will all have incentives around best and fairest results. Ie a bonus $50k for winning the BnF, $25k for second, $10k for third. You go through and add these in to random players. It doesn't really matter who wins, because you've got the $90k budgeted for in the cap.

There used to be a big loophole in the salary cap calcs which let you overspend the cap by 5%, where you could go through and assign 22 games 'played' in your estimates to all of your senior players who are on base contracts (no games bonus), and then only minimal games allocated to the younger players who are on match payments. This would have the effect of bringing you under the cap in your estimates, but required everything going smoothly throughout the year and no injuries. But in reality there would always be injuries to senior players, and a whole bunch of match payments would need to be paid to younger blokes who step in.

This would all be ok with the AFL however, who let you go over the cap and use an 'injury allowance' to bring you back under the cap. In essence though, this allowed you to be aggressive with your list management and basically gave you another 5% of spending money on top of the cap. This was something utilised heavily by the rich clubs, but almost unused completely by the poor clubs.

It might have changed in the past couple of the years, but being 'under the cap' was more of a theoretical excerise to show that you could put together a team of 22 players that could play 22 games, and they would be under the cap. If you couldn't do that estimate, then in theory you wouldnt be able to participate in the drafts etc. but obviously that never happens.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

At various points of the season, before the draft, before the season etc. Clubs submit a detailed salary estimate to the AFL to show that they'll be under the cap. It's basically a spreadsheet where you enter in all of your players, their base salaries, and an estimate of the number of games each will play throughout the year. At that point, you won't actually have a full list yet, so some of the players might be 'pick 10' and 'pick 35' - but draftees are all on standard contracts anyway, so it's no trouble to estimate.

Lots of players will all have incentives around best and fairest results. Ie a bonus $50k for winning the BnF, $25k for second, $10k for third. You go through and add these in to random players. It doesn't really matter who wins, because you've got the $90k budgeted for in the cap.

There used to be a big loophole in the salary cap calcs which let you overspend the cap by 5%, where you could go through and assign 22 games 'played' in your estimates to all of your senior players who are on base contracts (no games bonus), and then only minimal games allocated to the younger players who are on match payments. This would have the effect of bringing you under the cap in your estimates, but required everything going smoothly throughout the year and no injuries. But in reality there would always be injuries to senior players, and a whole bunch of match payments would need to be paid to younger blokes who step in.

This would all be ok with the AFL however, who let you go over the cap and use an 'injury allowance' to bring you back under the cap. In essence though, this allowed you to be aggressive with your list management and basically gave you another 5% of spending money on top of the cap. This was something utilised heavily by the rich clubs, but almost unused completely by the poor clubs.

It might have changed in the past couple of the years, but being 'under the cap' was more of a theoretical excerise to show that you could put together a team of 22 players that could play 22 games, and they would be under the cap. If you couldn't do that estimate, then in theory you wouldnt be able to participate in the drafts etc. but obviously that never happens.

This is probably the most informative post I’ve read in my 10 years on BF!

 

[GrommoT]

At various points of the season, before the draft, before the season etc. Clubs submit a detailed salary estimate to the AFL to show that they'll be under the cap. It's basically a spreadsheet where you enter in all of your players, their base salaries, and an estimate of the number of games each will play throughout the year. At that point, you won't actually have a full list yet, so some of the players might be 'pick 10' and 'pick 35' - but draftees are all on standard contracts anyway, so it's no trouble to estimate.

...

It sounds like you could have been working at a club when we went through the Tiprat saga and copped the sanctions ... if so, what was the inner club sanctum's view of what happened? Did what we copped sound about right, too high, too low?

I think a major issue of what Vlad thought we did wrong was to promise to trade Tip to another club club below trade value hence disadvantaging all other clubs and compromising the draft. Was this a view shared by the club you were at?

 

[Mutineer]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2023-follow-all-the-latest-adelaide-crows-news/news-story/ad8fc1f7efc1382db412c86767a544b1

Crow proving doubters wrong on way to new deal​

- Simeon Thomas-Wilson

A new deal for Lachie Murphy is expected soon after a start to the season the Adelaide small forward describes as “my most consistent month of footy”.

Murphy wasn’t in the Crows team for the Round 1 loss to GWS, but returned to the side for the Round 2 clash against Richmond.

Since that loss, the Crows have won four in a row for the first time since 2019 and Murphy, 24, has played a key part as a pressure small forward.

In his five games to date, Murphy’s disposals are up from 12.5 in 2022 to 15.2 – an increase of 22 per cent.

His score assists have risen a whopping 200 per cent from 0.8 to 2.4, his marks 64 per cent from 2.2 to 3.6, his score involvements 33 per cent from 4.5 to six and uncontested possessions 29 per cent from seven to nine.

“It probably is the most consistent I have been, I feel like I’ve had some good games at the top level but something that I have been working on is one being able to impact the game for longer and not having 20 minutes where I don’t do much,” he said.

“So being consistent in the game and doing that week to week.

“So I would dare say it has been my most consistent month of footy.”

While there have been increases across the board when it comes to Murphy’s stats, he said they weren’t showing why his start to the season was a good one.

Rather it is “doing the dirty bits” for the Crows that Murphy prides himself on.

“It is probably my weapon (doing the dirty bits) which is funny at this level,” he said.

“I know where I am at. I have been working on my game to be a complete player ever since I’ve been in the league, ever since I was a kid.

“I guess every good footy side I believe has a player like that who just does the nitty gritty stuff and I pride myself on doing that.”

This hasn’t gone unnoticed among Adelaide’s coaches and a new deal for Murphy, who is out of contract at the end of the season, is expected to be finalised soon.

Murphy himself said he was just focusing on continuing this strong start to the season.

“I’m just taking it week by week, I’m just playing my role and trying to show this footy club my worth,” he said.

“And the best way of doing that is by us winning and by me playing my role in the team

I love the footy club, I want to keep playing my role for the footy club.

“Hopefully that (a new contract) will take care of itself, it is pretty simple for me if we keep winning and I keep playing my role I daresay something will sort itself out.”

 

[Mutineer]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2023-follow-all-the-latest-adelaide-crows-news/news-story/ad8fc1f7efc1382db412c86767a544b1

The Crows and Port Adelaide have showed interest in Western Bulldogs’ free agent Bailey Williams.

Williams kicked three goals for the Bulldogs against Fremantle last week and has been playing more midfield in 2023, in addition to roles at half-back and on a wing.

The former Glenelg junior, who is 25, is happy to wait until late in the season to assess his future.

It is more likely he stays at Whitten Oval but if he does decide to test the free agent walkers, it is expected both SA clubs will have some interest.

 

[courageous_tom]

It sounds like you could have been working at a club when we went through the Tiprat saga and copped the sanctions

That was before my time sorry

 

[GrommoT]

That was before my time sorry

Cheers - great to have someone with industry experience on board.

 

[119others]

Tall fine with one-year deal, Saint to wait, Crow wants more

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

SAINTS KEEN TO SIGN YOUNG GUN​

ST KILDA young gun Mattaes Phillipou is loving his time at the Saints and will get through more of the season before looking at extending his deal, with the club keen to lock him in.

Clubs are quick to offer their early draft selections two-year contract extensions on top of their initial standard two-year deal upon entering the competition

Plant the seed early. Tell him we want him home and will offer 5 years @ 800k

either Saints pay up or we may tempt the lad to defer the decision until next year. We missed out on Day and he seems like a relatively similar quality prospect and “missing piece” for our m/f build

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2023-follow-all-the-latest-adelaide-crows-news/news-story/ad8fc1f7efc1382db412c86767a544b1

The Crows and Port Adelaide have showed interest in Western Bulldogs’ free agent Bailey Williams.

Williams kicked three goals for the Bulldogs against Fremantle last week and has been playing more midfield in 2023, in addition to roles at half-back and on a wing.

The former Glenelg junior, who is 25, is happy to wait until late in the season to assess his future.

It is more likely he stays at Whitten Oval but if he does decide to test the free agent walkers, it is expected both SA clubs will have some interest.

God, I hope he’s not the mystical player the club is confident of getting

 

[119others]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2023-follow-all-the-latest-adelaide-crows-news/news-story/ad8fc1f7efc1382db412c86767a544b1

Crow proving doubters wrong on way to new deal​

- Simeon Thomas-Wilson

A new deal for Lachie Murphy is expected soon after a start to the season the Adelaide small forward describes as “my most consistent month of footy”.

Murphy wasn’t in the Crows team for the Round 1 loss to GWS, but returned to the side for the Round 2 clash against Richmond.

Since that loss, the Crows have won four in a row for the first time since 2019 and Murphy, 24, has played a key part as a pressure small forward.

In his five games to date, Murphy’s disposals are up from 12.5 in 2022 to 15.2 – an increase of 22 per cent.

His score assists have risen a whopping 200 per cent from 0.8 to 2.4, his marks 64 per cent from 2.2 to 3.6, his score involvements 33 per cent from 4.5 to six and uncontested possessions 29 per cent from seven to nine.

“It probably is the most consistent I have been, I feel like I’ve had some good games at the top level but something that I have been working on is one being able to impact the game for longer and not having 20 minutes where I don’t do much,” he said.

“So being consistent in the game and doing that week to week.

“So I would dare say it has been my most consistent month of footy.”

While there have been increases across the board when it comes to Murphy’s stats, he said they weren’t showing why his start to the season was a good one.

Rather it is “doing the dirty bits” for the Crows that Murphy prides himself on.

“It is probably my weapon (doing the dirty bits) which is funny at this level,” he said.

“I know where I am at. I have been working on my game to be a complete player ever since I’ve been in the league, ever since I was a kid.

“I guess every good footy side I believe has a player like that who just does the nitty gritty stuff and I pride myself on doing that.”

This hasn’t gone unnoticed among Adelaide’s coaches and a new deal for Murphy, who is out of contract at the end of the season, is expected to be finalised soon.

Murphy himself said he was just focusing on continuing this strong start to the season.

“I’m just taking it week by week, I’m just playing my role and trying to show this footy club my worth,” he said.

“And the best way of doing that is by us winning and by me playing my role in the team

I love the footy club, I want to keep playing my role for the footy club.

“Hopefully that (a new contract) will take care of itself, it is pretty simple for me if we keep winning and I keep playing my role I daresay something will sort itself out.”

In terms of pure heart and grit you can’t not love this little fellow. Always playing on the edge, knows he is always close to first dropped if he has a couple of stinkers. Clearly it’s his best year and love watching him doing the 1%’s

Has come a long way from serving at the Crow Mania shop. If he can improve set shots - always a massive weakness - no reason he doesn’t continue to play his role over coming years

any thoughts what sort of base he would be on? Considering league average is 350k ish, I can’t imagine it’s much under that so perhaps around that level?