List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread - Pt2 Now With Added Wailing & Gnashing of Teeth

[Lore]

Hello Dockers fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

 

[DragoDelph]

Our squad's average age must be younger with the exits of Hamling, Wilson and Schultz. Where are we now among the other clubs?

Not perfect. But below is what I've been working with.
Every player in the top 30 (ie, expected to play a few games) that leaves or arrives has their games played and age divided by 30 to assess their contribution to the average. Green is 2023. Have added half a year to every clubs age for time between seasons.

Red is the result. This is part of how I worked out my ladder.

 

[Purple Suit]

Our squad's average age must be younger with the exits of Hamling, Wilson and Schultz. Where are we now among the other clubs?

It must be close compared to the start of the year but will depend if we recruit 18 year olds or not.

We've lost three 30 years olds, 1 x 25, 1 x 22 & 1 x 20.

Recruited a 27 year old and getting in a 22 year old by all reports. If we replace the rest with 18 year olds then we lose 36 years total which might balance out with the team getting older.

From a team playing point of view, replacing Shooter with Emmett and Henry with Sharp will be completely over taken with the extra year into all our players. We will get older and more experienced, even more so if Tabs or Fyfe start getting games.

 

[pK75]

Not perfect. But below is what I've been working with.
Every player in the top 30 (ie, expected to play a few games) that leaves or arrives has their games played and age divided by 30 to assess their contribution to the average. Green is 2023. Have added half a year to every clubs age for time between seasons.

Red is the result. This is part of how I worked out my ladder.

View attachment 1844384

Interested to see who your top 30 for Carlton is, how’d they drop 3 years in average age?

 

[DragoDelph]

Interested to see who your top 30 for Carlton is, how’d they drop 3 years in average age?

Curnow & Plowman. (probably including plowman is a stretch). (A lot of this is based on nothing but how I feel on the day.)
Counted Dow and Fisher

Will come back a bit once Fantasia is confirmed.

 

[Alfonz]

Curnow & Plowman. (probably including plowman is a stretch). (A lot of this is based on nothing but how I feel on the day.)
Counted Dow and Fisher

Will come back a bit once Fantasia is confirmed.

View attachment 1844438

Sorry, but the method you are using seems flawed to me. You can't just add/subtract a handful of players (after dividing by 30) the way you are doing it and get a new average.

Carlton's top 30 is around 90 games (give or take, depending on who makes the cut) excluding Fantasia. Out to 93 with Fantasia. It's nowhere near the 69 games you have calculated.

Look at WC ... I went through their 2024 list and get 92 games for a 30 player average. Even their entire 38 man list including a bunch of zero gamers is 72 games average. The only way you get to your 62 games is to cut their 4 most experienced players (Darling, Gaff, Cripps, Yeo) from the top 30.

Some of your other changes are way too drastic as well (e.g. Richmond).

 

[DragoDelph]

Sorry, but the method you are using seems flawed to me. You can't just add/subtract a handful of players (after dividing by 30) the way you are doing it and get a new average.

Carlton's top 30 is around 90 games (give or take, depending on who makes the cut) excluding Fantasia. Out to 93 with Fantasia. It's nowhere near the 69 games you have calculated.

Look at WC ... I went through their 2024 list and get 92 games for a 30 player average. Even their entire 38 man list including a bunch of zero gamers is 72 games average. The only way you get to your 62 games is to cut their 4 most experienced players (Darling, Gaff, Cripps, Yeo) from the top 30.

Some of your other changes are way too drastic as well (e.g. Richmond).

Ok.

Never said it was a perfect method, just something thrown together on a whim between other stuff. Each team is affected similarly, and the weighting for the ladder is minor compared to other factors.

I could in theory up the starting averages as they are based on (theoretically, I have no idea how the AFL calculated these) a 23 man squad. [avg*30/23]

do you have a solution or an alternative to offer?

 

[guidodp15]

My bad, i read your post wrong.

I'd be keen on any deal which gets us Collard without having to give up one of the future 1st's we've got. what that deal ends up looking like i have no idea.

That Sanchez kid looks decent for a small forward. No need to sell the farm for Collard if we can get him

 

[guidodp15]

If it wasn’t him, you’re just checking out some random bloke…

that chick i was trying to root last year lives in that area. wondering if he was with was her

 

[guidodp15]

Sorry, I shared this in my private chat. Known for about a month. More depth gone. Should move him on.

He's been carrying the injury since he joined us

 

[Docker82]

That Sanchez kid looks decent for a small forward. No need to sell the farm for Collard if we can get him

I remember people on here saying that there was no point selling the farm for Amiss when players like Jack Williams would be available later…

Collard is rated much higher than Sanchez for reason. Sanchez ain’t a bad prospect though.

 

[guidodp15]

I remember people on here saying that there was no point selling the farm for Amiss when players like Jack Williams would be available later…

Collard is rated much higher than Sanchez for reason. Sanchez ain’t a bad prospect though.

first off we didn't sell the farm for Amiss and the debate at the time was Amiss or JVR and I was always on the Amiss train. With Collard and Sanchez the gap between the two is smaller plus giving away a first new year could hurt our chances at getting Mcdonald next year so it is a totally different scenario.

 

[more_of_bito]

Not perfect. But below is what I've been working with.
Every player in the top 30 (ie, expected to play a few games) that leaves or arrives has their games played and age divided by 30 to assess their contribution to the average. Green is 2023. Have added half a year to every clubs age for time between seasons.

Red is the result. This is part of how I worked out my ladder.

View attachment 1844384

Dont stress about approach etc guarantee even champion data has its flaws, irrespective pretty sure we are definitely bottom four in age. appreciate anyone going to this effort for broader group so thankyou.

Media perspectives of other bottom four sides:
Hawks - young rebuilding need time . Just paid 4 years for M Chol.
Adelaide - still young, rebuilding relying on 35yo Tex Walker.
Gold Coast - young rebuilding , given 3 first round picks at no cost
Fremantle - coach under most pressure. Losing critical players, must make finals or fail.

 

[Docker82]

first off we didn't sell the farm for Amiss and the debate at the time was Amiss or JVR and I was always on the Amiss train. With Collard and Sanchez the gap between the two is smaller plus giving away a first new year could hurt our chances at getting Mcdonald next year so it is a totally different scenario.

I specifically remember people on here not wanting Amiss because we could get Jack Williams later. I'd seen both play and really rated one but not the other.

Yes, there was plenty of talk about JVR

 

[FreoRicci]

Sorry, I shared this in my private chat. Known for about a month. More depth gone. Should move him on.

Was this the injury he suffered in WAFL GF?

 

[theGav56]

I specifically remember people on here not wanting Amiss because we could get Jack Williams later. I'd seen both play and really rated one but not the other.

Yes, there was plenty of talk about JVR

You can see almost every possible opinion on any given subject on here. Pretty normal for a chat site.

 

[Sully90]

I specifically remember people on here not wanting Amiss because we could get Jack Williams later. I'd seen both play and really rated one but not the other.

Yes, there was plenty of talk about JVR

Talk had definately cooled on Amiss as a top 10 prospect by the time draft came around. From memory people were worried about how well rounded his game was compared to JVR.

 

[Joao]

Talk had definately cooled on Amiss as a top 10 prospect by the time draft came around. From memory people were worried about how well rounded his game was compared to JVR.

He had a lean finals series IIRC which bothered some.

That draft was absolutely stacked at the top end.

 

[Sewell21]

Nah, but I haven’t asked tbf. When you have picks as late as us, it’s what’s left My gut feel is we will pull a move

*Bust a

FIFY

 

[ubiquitous226]

Talk had definately cooled on Amiss as a top 10 prospect by the time draft came around. From memory people were worried about how well rounded his game was compared to JVR.

My memory was there were a lot of people keen on JVR from early in the year, including me.
I took quite a while to even learn of Amiss' existence haha.

This was fun reading;

Jye Amiss Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

 

[more_of_bito]

It’s a good question who Melbourne could have had either JVR or Johnson. Fwiw I’m happy with Amiss and Johnson combo over Amiss and JVR (if Melbs chose Johnson) hoe good was that draft night.

 

[sdfc]

It’s a good question who Melbourne could have had either JVR or Johnson. Fwiw I’m happy with Amiss and Johnson combo over Amiss and JVR (if Melbs chose Johnson) hoe good was that draft night.

It's bizarre that a top ten quality player like Johnson would fall to 21 but then again that's where Oscar Allen went. Not Vics I suppose.

 

[freodog]

Talk had definately cooled on Amiss as a top 10 prospect by the time draft came around. From memory people were worried about how well rounded his game was compared to JVR.

Not in my mind. Had to pick Amiss with our first pick and not try to be too clever and get him with pick 10 because Richmond were looming. I'm so glad we did!

 

[MakeshiftMartyr]

Not in my mind. Had to pick Amiss with our first pick and not try to be too clever and get him with pick 10 because Richmond were looming. I'm so glad we did!

The thought of Amiss as a Richmond player...

 

[JammoMonty]

My memory was there were a lot of people keen on JVR from early in the year, including me.
I took quite a while to even learn of Amiss' existence haha.

This was fun reading;

Jye Amiss Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

To think Freo we’re going to hand over two firsts for Neale and miss this opportunity

 

[Joao]

To think Freo we’re going to hand over two firsts for Neale and miss this opportunity

Shudder at the thought.