List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

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Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant
 
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go_the_dockers said:
For Lobb, we effectively traded pick 6 for Lobb and Sturt. Pick 6 was king. Effectively we traded pick 5 and 6, for Lobb, Hogan and Sturt. 5 was Rozzee

Fyi. I rated Lobb as high as I do Jackson. They have a good high lights package, but overall output is poor. Jackson is a ruck.
The anti money ball player.

Aish is 27, won't be part of our next flag and cost a 2nd. And best is a b grader
Clark cost an early 2nd. B grader at best

When you are rebuilding you need A graders, then once you get enough you top up. Instead we have B graders, and not enough A graders.
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Lobb cost us picks 11 & 19 but we got 14, 43 & 47 back which worked out to be roughly an early 3rd round pick.
He wanted to come back to WA and GWS knew they weren't going to get much for him.
And then we got back from the Bulldogs what will likely work out to be about equal to a late 1st round pick.

Aish worked out to be equal to about a mid 3rd round pick (about 50) if you again calculate the trade using the draft values.
Clark actually cost us equal to a late 1st rounder (about pick 14) and until we have players better that can take his position in the side then he hasn't cost us an arm and a leg ... for example, West Coast chose Campbell Chesser in that same draft at pick 14. Chesser has so far played 3 games for them and is about 2 and half years younger than Clark who has played about 30 games for us now.
 
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go_the_dockers said:
For Lobb, we effectively traded pick 6 for Lobb and Sturt. Pick 6 was king. Effectively we traded pick 5 and 6, for Lobb, Hogan and Sturt. 5 was Rozzee

Fyi. I rated Lobb as high as I do Jackson. They have a good high lights package, but overall output is poor. Jackson is a ruck.
The anti money ball player.

Aish is 27, won't be part of our next flag and cost a 2nd. And best is a b grader
Clark cost an early 2nd. B grader at best

When you are rebuilding you need A graders, then once you get enough you top up. Instead we have B graders, and not enough A graders.
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This is so far from the truth.

We traded 11, 19 > Lobb, 14, 31
The 31 a result of trading a couple of picks in the 40’s that we got from GWS)

We had Lobb for about 60 games and 76 goals or thereabouts. One of seasons he played a lot in the ruck.

We then essentially traded Lobb for pick 33 and JOM.

JOM was traded for F2 we received with Meek and we ended up with pick 42 from a F4 we got back from Hawks in the same trade.

The 6 which was our pick to start with was the pick Brisbane gave to us for Neale along with 19. If we kept 6 which we traded to Melbourne for Hogan we would have had King.

For mine no issue with Lobb trade. Although we could have pushed back on giving up pick 11 for 14. It was essentially Clark lost to Sturt.
 

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Superkoops said:
Walls has shown himself to be a good draft recruiter.

He and Bell haven’t shown themselves to be much chop at trading - get someone else in to look after that. In fact Freo have been shizen at trading for years. We need some Geelong/Melbourne hardness.

Watching this weekend showed me a couple of things. Acres whilst prone to bombing the ball too often is a very good winger. He has very good run and carry. We threw him away after his best season. We essentially got the same pick as Hogan salary dump. He also showed against Eagles that he is able to lower the eyes more and hit leading forward.

On top of that the Eagles, who struggled to attract anyone picked up a player Jayden Hunt who has been a solid FA selection. Over 500m gained but what I liked in the first half was his willingness to get back and help defenders. Second half was a s*#tshow.

We gave away Acres for zippo and we replace him with a depth HBF who for mine didn’t show that much last year as a wingman at Peel. The decision for Freo not cave in to GC on Sharp is what I want to see more of but we needed to keep Acres for a couple more years and honestly wouldn’t have cost more.

I don’t have a problem with JOM trade. I have a problem with the Jackson trade.
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Wouldn’t be against us recruiting another Jayden Hunt if available this year tbh. Really need to fix that wing position and I’d rather use our better draft selections elsewhere.

We shouldn’t be trading North’s 2nd or the 2024 1st and 2nd rounders this year but if there’s a free agent or a team is dumb enough to trade an Acres level wingman for **** all we should be looking at it.
 
Superkoops said:
This is so far from the truth.

We traded 11, 19 > Lobb, 14, 31
The 31 a result of trading a couple of picks in the 40’s that we got from GWS)

We had Lobb for about 60 games and 76 goals or thereabouts. One of seasons he played a lot in the ruck.

We then essentially traded Lobb for pick 33 and JOM.

JOM was traded for F2 we received with Meek and we ended up with pick 42 from a F4 we got back from Hawks in the same trade.

The 6 which was our pick to start with was the pick Brisbane gave to us for Neale along with 19. If we kept 6 which we traded to Melbourne for Hogan we would have had King.

For mine no issue with Lobb trade. Although we could have pushed back on giving up pick 11 for 14. It was essentially Clark lost to Sturt.
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We split 6 to get 11 and 19 to get Lobb.

If we don't trade 6, then Brisbane would trade 5 for Neale.
 
PurpleEyes said:
Lobb cost us picks 11 & 19 but we got 14, 43 & 47 back which worked out to be roughly an early 3rd round pick.
He wanted to come back to WA and GWS knew they weren't going to get much for him.
And then we got back from the Bulldogs what will likely work out to be about equal to a late 1st round pick.

Aish worked out to be equal to about a mid 3rd round pick (about 50) if you again calculate the trade using the draft values.
Clark actually cost us equal to a late 1st rounder (about pick 14) and until we have players better that can take his position in the side then he hasn't cost us an arm and a leg ... for example, West Coast chose Campbell Chesser in that same draft at pick 14. Chesser has so far played 3 games for them and is about 2 and half years younger than Clark who has played about 30 games for us now.
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Lobb forced us to split 6 for 11 and 19.

Clark is a b or c grader.
Same with Aish. You need a graders.
 
go_the_dockers said:
Poor defensively, good offensively.

Young is an A grader, Clark is not.

Cost us a few goals on the weekend by losing his man
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Clark was very good towards the end of last year. I actually thought he was one of our better players on the weekend. He's very good defensively in terms of intercepts and spoiling but you're right in that he's not good at being accountable for his man. Good defensive help though. Still only 22, but I think at his ceiling he can be an A grader.
 
go_the_dockers said:
6 traded for 11 and 19

11 and 19 became Lobb, Sturt and 31.
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Nope 6 was traded with port for picks 11, 23, 30 and 49.

We got 19 along with 6 for Neale. I think we gave them 31 with Neale (which is the 30 above pushed back due to a compo pick).

Already summed up the Lobb trade above. Go research if you don’t believe me.
 

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Superkoops said:
Nope 6 was traded with port for picks 11, 23, 30 and 49.

We got 19 along with 6 for Neale. I think we gave them 31 with Neale (which is the 30 above pushed back due to a compo pick).

Already summed up the Lobb trade above. Go research if you don’t believe me.
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Was looking at the trades today too and Im confused. How did we trade pick 6 to port, but then get pick 6 back for Neale?
 
s_wd6 said:
Was looking at the trades today too and Im confused. How did we trade pick 6 to port, but then get pick 6 back for Neale?
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port traded with brisbane, swapped pick 6 for pick 5 and sent sam mayes to port plus some other pieces involved
 
s_wd6 said:
Was looking at the trades today too and Im confused. How did we trade pick 6 to port, but then get pick 6 back for Neale?
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Brisbane did a trade with port. 5 to Port along with Mayes and I think something else and Brisbane got 6.

There was an article about how far our pick 6 travelled that trade period.

Freo to Port to Bris to Freo to Melb to GCS. The pick back to us was all part of a domino effect of trades all lodged simultaneously.

We should have done the Lobb trade differently to keep 11 and also keep the pick 6/25 we have away for Hogan.

Keep 6 (Ben King)
Keep 11 (Jordan Clark)

Give up 19 and other pick swaps for Lobb.

We would be sitting in a very different space. Imagine having Ben King lining up next to Amiss. Also we would have someone else like Motlop at pick 24 (the pick we have to Geelong for Clark because we already have him).

Hogan a disaster. The small little differences can still be quite substantial. Giving up 11 for 14 for Lobb in 2018, giving up our F2nd for Jackson in 2022.

Hindsight would say selecting Henry and the subsequent last min pick trade heavily in favour of Port was not well thought out.

Not getting better trade return for Hogan is another in 2020. Pick 55 even for a salary dump is pathetic. GWS paid Melbourne pick 31 for Preust who has barely played. We should have at least got a pick in 30’s.

We need to be more ruthless. Melbourne/ Geelong are the benchmark. The way we handled Lobb in 2021/2022 was good. The way we organised a moneyball trade for Brodie/MJ in 2021 was also good. The way we handled Jeremy Sharp non trade is also good. I want more this. I also want no more big ticket trades and this incl. Naughton.
 
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Superkoops said:
Brisbane did a trade with port. 5 to Port along with Mayes and I think something else and Brisbane got 6.

There was an article about how far our pick 6 travelled that trade period.

Freo to Port to Bris to Freo to Melb to GCS.
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No restrictions on trading for your own pick back??
 
s_wd6 said:
But i thought you couldn't receive your old picks back in a trade?
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haven't heard that as a rule before, I think it might be something to do with draft day trades only after WCE/Sydney shenanigans
 
go_the_dockers said:
Yeah but the best way to get players is through the draft. Hard to trade in A graders.
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You guys are funny, try to do the same with the guys off the field.
We have a bunch of nobody’s running the show.
At least with M Harvey we had Scott right under our noses.
If it’s all about the players GWS and GC would be standouts brimming with
Talent. Talent only gets you so far.
 
Van_Dyke said:
haven't heard that as a rule before, I think it might be something to do with draft day trades only after WCE/Sydney shenanigans
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There was this with melb the following year though where we had to include adelaide in the trade to get pick 8

1682858371018.png
 
Jordan Clark has been very good for us.

Some posters genuinely have an agenda that Freo should never trade and consistently (probably on purpose) understate any contribution any player traded into Freo has had.

If Jordan Clark is a failed trade for Pick 21 or thereabouts then every draftee we’ve picked up at that range except Nat Fyfe and maybe Hayden Ballantyne is a fail as well. Matthew Johnson maybe as well if he comes good.
 
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s_wd6 said:
There was this with melb the following year though where we had to include adelaide in the trade to get pick 8

View attachment 1675189
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the selection you’re talking about was traded to us as part of the Ed Langdon trade.

You can definitely trade in picks that were previously yours just nit with the same club.

Besides I think this has only been a rule since after the Hogan trade happened. I think Sydney traded out a second rounder for future second, matched a bid with a bunch of third and fourth rounders, then traded that same second rounder back in. Once that happened the AFL brought in the rule you’re talking about. Think the event I’m talking about may have happened at the draft the same year we traded for Hogan tbh.
 
Our list management disasters of the last few years, some our fault, some not, have changed our window, whilst also unfortunately strengthening some of our trade partners (Brisbane - Neale; Carlton - Cerra, Acres; even Melbourne - Grundy Oli’s 2 firsts for Jackson effectively).

Our window is not now as it should have been If we retained a midfield of Neale, Brayshaw, Serong, Cerra, Acres or Max King instead of Hogan. Instead it’s in 2-3 years when Erasmus, Johnson, O’Driscoll, Amiss, Chappo have 20-40 games in them and then only if we plug a few holes elsewhere. We need to realize this now and stop the short term fixes (Wagner, JOM, Tabs).

Our midfield is shallow and lacking x-factor, good kicks into F50, goal kicking mids. Forward line is 2-3 years away. Back line has issues.

We need to embrace this new realistic window now and pump games into Erasmus, Johnson, Amiss etc.

Take some risks and try to unearth diamonds from our list. Try list management by looking inwards and challenging assumptions of what position our players are best at rather than pigeonholing them.

Chapman to the midfield. Jackson to CHB - much easier place to learn the game, than forward, he could be a beast down there. Heck, try Walker on the wing - can’t be worse than Henry there. Or if Treacy ain’t going to make it as a forward put him back like we did Cox. Cox has always worried me as a defender due to his lack of desperation, we need an alternative down there. Cox’s intercept marking papered over his weaknesses. Traecy could be a a beast down back also. Banfield as a lock down defender. Switta in the middle.

Sometimes the answer is right in front of you. No need to try to invent trades to justify your job like Belly is doing. Problem is these guys like Bell and Longmuir have contracts that end and need to produce results now despite logic dictating we need to look to 2-3 years time.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
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