List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[freo_leo29]

There is no room on the rookie list. It’s already full. You can’t just re-rookie guys unless someone already on the rookie list is delisted.
What’s more, Treacy has to be brought up from the rookie list to the main list. So Treacy could come up and Corbett be moved to the RL (he’s lucky he is contracted or he would already be gone). But then that’s one less national draft selection for us.
We are a bottom 4 side with rubbish depth. We are not Collingwood or Port.
We should be turning over 8 or 9 players minimum because, as the ladder and performances show, we are simply not good enough.

Banfield and Treacy open up 2 spots on the RL


We don't need 8 or 9 selections this year, can't keep turning over a list like that every season, we need some stability

 

[Superkoops]

Banfield and Treacy open up 2 spots on the RL


We don't need 8 or 9 selections this year, can't keep turning over a list like that every season, we need some stability

Current rookies Cat a
Treacy (to be upgraded)
Banfield (to be upgraded)
Worner
Stanley
Reidy
Kuek

Likely Delistings / retirements
Hamling
Wilson
Benning
Colyer

Delist/rookie
Wagner
Corbett

That gives us four National draft picks

If Henry goes we trade one in.
If Sturt goes we trade another in.

Have I missed anyone??

 

[Dockeroo]

Banfield and Treacy open up 2 spots on the RL


We don't need 8 or 9 selections this year, can't keep turning over a list like that every season, we need some stability

How many national draft selections are we going to take then?
Out from main list:
Hamling
Benning
Colyer
Wilson

In to main list:
Banfield (rookie up grade)
Treacy (rookie upgrade)
Jeremy Sharp (or someone similar - I think we can reasonably expect at least one addition during trade week)
Pick 21


Then what happens?
Pass on pick 38 and pick 44, pick 58 because our list is full? That’s a, shall we say, interesting strategy for a bottom 4 club!

Of course you will say “delist Corbett and move him to the rookie list”. Fine. That means we can use pick 38. But it’s one less rookie pick. What about pick 44 and pick 58?

There is Sturt - I like him but I think he’s a goner. If we move him to the rookie list, he’s a DFA for life but we can use pick 44 this year.

At this point, if we follow the plan above, we have just 3 new players joining via the draft and no new rookies.
That’s completely unacceptable IMO. We can’t be arrogant enough to think this list is so good we can just get 3 new players from the later rounds of the draft and that’s it? No new Rookes?
Surely even the optimists aren’t drinking that Kool Aid?
Is the Michael Walters replacement we all scream about needing here going to come from a very limited selection of late round picks? Highly unlikely.

If Liam Henry leaves, that would be one extra spot freed up and we might get a reasonable pick in return but given the form he’s in most people will hope he stays.

Of course the real problem is that many of the worst players on the list are contracted too long.
I personally believe Sam Sturt, for example is a better player with more upside than all of the following but they are all guaranteed to be at Cockburn in 2024 and he isn’t:
Josh Corbett
Corey Wagner
Tom Emmett
Sebit Kuek (I’m not sure if he’s contracted yet but he’s same age as Sturt and I still think Sam is the most likely to have a long term AFL future)

Then you have Banfield and Hughes, both unnecessarily contracted in 2024 and limiting our options for list management.

One opportunity that has emerged late in the season is if Hamling has a decent end to the year and plays 3 or 4 decent games, North Melbourne might give a F3 for him. Or even swap an F4 for an F3. They are DESPERATE for a serviceable KPF next year

 

[freo_leo29]

How many national draft selections are we going to take then?
Out from main list:
Hamling
Benning
Colyer
Wilson

In to main list:
Banfield (rookie up grade)
Treacy (rookie upgrade)
Jeremy Sharp (or someone similar - I think we can reasonably expect at least one addition during trade week)
Pick 21


Then what happens?
Pass on pick 38 and pick 44, pick 58 because our list is full? That’s a, shall we say, interesting strategy for a bottom 4 club!

Of course you will say “delist Corbett and move him to the rookie list”. Fine. That means we can use pick 38. But it’s one less rookie pick. What about pick 44 and pick 58?

There is Sturt - I like him but I think he’s a goner. If we move him to the rookie list, he’s a DFA for life but we can use pick 44 this year.

At this point, if we follow the plan above, we have just 3 new players joining via the draft and no new rookies.
That’s completely unacceptable IMO. We can’t be arrogant enough to think this list is so good we can just get 3 new players from the later rounds of the draft and that’s it? No new Rookes?
Surely even the optimists aren’t drinking that Kool Aid?
Is the Michael Walters replacement we all scream about needing here going to come from a very limited selection of late round picks? Highly unlikely.

If Liam Henry leaves, that would be one extra spot freed up and we might get a reasonable pick in return but given the form he’s in most people will hope he stays.

Of course the real problem is that many of the worst players on the list are contracted too long.
I personally believe Sam Sturt, for example is a better player with more upside than all of the following but they are all guaranteed to be at Cockburn in 2024 and he isn’t:
Josh Corbett
Corey Wagner
Tom Emmett
Sebit Kuek (I’m not sure if he’s contracted yet but he’s same age as Sturt and I still think Sam is the most likely to have a long term AFL future)

Then you have Banfield and Hughes, both unnecessarily contracted in 2024 and limiting our options for list management.

One opportunity that has emerged late in the season is if Hamling has a decent end to the year and plays 3 or 4 decent games, North Melbourne might give a F3 for him. Or even swap an F4 for an F3. They are DESPERATE for a serviceable KPF next year

First 4 or so paragraphs can be answered with this, use 38 44 and 58 to move up to a better pick, Banfield and Treacy will allow us to take them into draft night, hold them and organise a deal with gc


If Henry goes then we simply draft someone with whatever pick we get for him

I agree with your point on those list of players, I'm not against delisting any of them a year early if we need to, maybe not Emmett and kuek

Hamling is a DFA, he goes wherever for free, he will likely retire but there is genuinely 0 chance we get anything for him if someone else wants him

 

[Dockeroo]

Reidy is another guy I would be looking at, his one year rookie deal runs out this year.
Simple question for the club to answer - do they trust him to play an AFL game instead of Darcy in case of emergency?
Evidence so far this year suggests no.

In that case - delist and use the list spot elsewhere.

 

[Dockeroo]

First 4 or so paragraphs can be answered with this, use 38 44 and 58 to move up to a better pick, Banfield and Treacy will allow us to take them into draft night, hold them and organise a deal with gc


If Henry goes then we simply draft someone with whatever pick we get for him

I agree with your point on those list of players, I'm not against delisting any of them a year early if we need to, maybe not Emmett and kuek

Hamling is a DFA, he goes wherever for free, he will likely retire but there is genuinely 0 chance we get anything for him if someone else wants him

For me the club needs to take 4 new players in the main National draft.
And at least one new rookie - your Josh Treacy/Tobe Watson/Taylin Duman type pick. The end of season rookie draft has more talent than the mid season rookie draft yet everyone obsesses about picking players in the latter.
I would also like to see one mature player traded in, someone like Jeremy sharp if they think he’s good, or maybe Sam Flanders for an F2 if he could be persuaded. Ginnivan could be another to get in the ear of. I’d absolutely love to see Jack Ginnivan in our forward line. The system is meant to work like this - a fringe player from the best team in the league falls out of their list to get regular gametime at a bottom 4 club. Win/win.

It seems at the end of 2024 we will have no shortage of ordinary players to delist though.
I wonder if Wagner is actually on a 1 year deal?

 

[Lach72]

anyone notice anything about this?

 

[DragoDelph]

That’s a lot of academy kids

 

[Lach72]

That’s a lot of academy kids

look it’s only half the team, that can be taken by the northern academies whenever they want

 

[King Tenz]

anyone notice anything about this?

View attachment 1738503

1 WA kid and a shit ton of kids from the Northern team academies wtf

 

[Dockeroo]

anyone notice anything about this?

View attachment 1738503

At least 11 of those 22 players would not be in the open draft pool in 2025.

It’s getting ridiculous now

 

[freo_leo29]

Jeff whites son also on there

Will go to demons ofc

 

[Swiggy]

There is no room on the rookie list. It’s already full. You can’t just re-rookie guys unless someone already on the rookie list is delisted.
What’s more, Treacy has to be brought up from the rookie list to the main list. So Treacy could come up and Corbett be moved to the RL (he’s lucky he is contracted or he would already be gone). But then that’s one less national draft selection for us.
We are a bottom 4 side with rubbish depth. We are not Collingwood or Port.
We should be turning over 8 or 9 players minimum because, as the ladder and performances show, we are simply not good enough.

Cal twomey has said this draft isn’t that great. Maybe on need to go in with 2 picks? I just think if cox or Pearce get injured you can’t throw Davies & Draper to the wolves yet.

 

[JammoMonty]

Lachie Shultz wants to head home. Western Bulldogs preferred club.

Freo have matched bulldogs offer

 

[Dockeroo]

Cal twomey has said this draft isn’t that great. Maybe on need to go in with 2 picks? I just think if cox or Pearce get injured you can’t throw Davies & Draper to the wolves yet.

There’s pretty much only 2 scenarios you go with less than 3 picks in the national draft and that re rookieing out of contract players:
1. You have just played in the GF, have a stacked list overflowing with talent and don’t have any major list holes.
2. You are like GC suns last year and this year with a mountain of top end talent in your academy in this draft or the next that requires matching bids.

You finish bottom 4 without a first round pick and heaps of holes in the list with minimal decent depth?
Nah. Not the time for that kind of move.

 

[blue shark]

Cal twomey has said this draft isn’t that great. Maybe on need to go in with 2 picks? I just think if cox or Pearce get injured you can’t throw Davies & Draper to the wolves yet.

As a team we are the runt of the litter. Under Ross Lyon it was an effort based
style. Where a few more skilled players may have been the difference in 2013.
Now under JLo it is skilled based, with the only similarity is the defensive
game.
Why can’t we find the right mix?
As always it has more to do with who is running the show, and how we spend
money on players and buggar all on personal.

 

[Superkoops]

Cal twomey has said this draft isn’t that great. Maybe on need to go in with 2 picks? I just think if cox or Pearce get injured you can’t throw Davies & Draper to the wolves yet.

Chapman? 193/194cm and has certainly added size. Played all his colts footy at CHB.

We’ll see how Hamling goes this weekend but for mine he is unlikely to get another contract.

We should certainly be looking out for back-up KPD ahead of Davies and Draper in the development and body size. A late pick in the ND or an early rookie draft pick.

Need to see a bit more from Sturt but he is line ball at the moment for 1yr contract extension. Corbett a good chance to be delisted and added to rookie list.

Wagner as I mentioned above depending on performance this weekend and remaining games for mine also a good chance to be delisted and added to rookie.

Not sure where the club is at with skinny Conrad Williams. He would have been selected with LT view. If no real new Cat b options then he stays.

We will likely run with 3-4 ND picks and 0-1 RD selections. If Sturt gets traded or delisted then another spot opens up. If Henry gets traded then we will likely trade 1 in.

Overall most likely 6 new players with a couple of players shuffled (from primary to rookie).

 

[blue shark]

Chapman?

I like him, but like so many others no upper body strength.
The only guy who looks like a footballer is Schultz and not surprised with
him being a plumber.
Serong, Young, Erasmus, Johnson, Darcy, Jackson, Treacy, Amiss, all have
the bodies for massive gain.

 

[Docker82]

There’s pretty much only 2 scenarios you go with less than 3 picks in the national draft and that re rookieing out of contract players:
1. You have just played in the GF, have a stacked list overflowing with talent and don’t have any major list holes.
2. You are like GC suns last year and this year with a mountain of top end talent in your academy in this draft or the next that requires matching bids.

You finish bottom 4 without a first round pick and heaps of holes in the list with minimal decent depth?
Nah. Not the time for that kind of move.

Whilst I do agree with this I can see the merit of getting our second pick as high as possible and going into the draft with only two picks inside 50 (but both being inside 30). Make sure these two picks are potential best 22 players (of course it doesn’t always work) rather than guys that play mostly at Peel for 2-3 seasons and get delisted.

I’d still take another selection late in the draft to make it three and draft a player through the rookie draft though. Ideally a mature aged KPD is one of them.

As you keep saying turning over your list is necessary. Not doing so turns you into West Coast, North Melbourne or dare I say Fremantle in 2016 very quickly.

Also 2019-2021 looks alright for us with a few exceptions - adding Jackson adds to that group from an age perspective. Not sure we’ve done that great from 2016-2019 tbh. Darcy, Cox, Brayshaw and Clark as above average players, Ryan, Schultz and Switta as role players that’d get games for most teams. I’d we’d started rebuilding in 2019 it would’ve been a nice group to start building around but I’d expect more from a team that’d been rebuilding for three years.

I think there’s a few players at Peel that can add a fair bit in 2-3 years but aren’t adding too much now. Delisting them would be a waste. Having that I’m still expecting 5-6 changes minimum this off season, which is actually down on most recent off seasons for us.

 

[Joao]

I like him, but like so many others no upper body strength.
The only guy who looks like a footballer is Schultz and not surprised with
him being a plumber.
Serong, Young, Erasmus, Johnson, Darcy, Jackson, Treacy, Amiss, all have
the bodies for massive gain.

Looks like he might have fixed that in rehab this year. Looks like he skipped every leg day and replaced it with curls.

 

[Andy Brennan]

TBH I think Wagner is only on a 1 year, until they confirm that he has 2 it just doesn't make sense for him to be on 2

So Corbett and Hughes could be rookied and Wagner delisted

Wonder if Melbourne are interested in Corbett still, think both clubs may have thought Amiss and JVR would take longer when they were interested in him last year

He was a national draft pick. Never heard of a ND pick agreeing to not get the guaranteed 2

 

[Taylor]

He was a national draft pick. Never heard of a ND pick agreeing to not get the guaranteed 2

They can set their own terms once they have already been in the system

 

[Docker82]

They can set their own terms once they have already been in the system

That is 100% the case, however it may also apply to players over a certain age as well?

 

[freo_leo29]

He was a national draft pick. Never heard of a ND pick agreeing to not get the guaranteed 2

As has been said if you are a previous player then the rules change


The reason I think its 1 is because he is twice delisted, he would have set minimum terms just to get back on a list, he also said he was expecting to be picked in the rookie draft, that also would have been 1 year, so we know he would have been fine with 1 year

 

[Taylor]

That is 100% the case, however it may also apply to players over a certain age as well?

If they've previously nominated for a draft more recently but I think you need to be in the system to set your terms

This is why Tim Kelly was on rookie wages before his HUGE WC deal