List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[JustaBattler]

Disingenious of him to claim we got a good chance to look at out younger players back end of last year and that only incremental gains are made from your mature part of the list but step change comes from your younger part of the list. All while he refused to play kids unless forced, dropped them as soon as senior players were back regardless of form or team balance and stacked a finals team full of underdone seniors when the kids were champing at the bit and playing good footy. Actions louder than words and all that.

Revisionist summary to a degree by Voss to say the least. As long as he has genuinely learnt from the cluster **** that was the management of team selection back end of last / management of getting games into the kids and not just giving it pre season lip service. Time will tell. Hope my cynicism is ill founded.

The bolded bit is pretty much the only point you make above that I agree with based on evidence rather than vibe - but that's enough for rme to bring my view on Voss back to 'neutral'.

I susepct think maybe he has been 'told' that the list has 40 players on it and Carlton is about sustainable relevance - pretty evident. To be fair though ther eis a fair amount of pressure on him to perform ( as there should be) and he has been dealt a pretty shyte hand as far as player abvailability goes - two years in a row now...

To me the big signal re Voss being 'managed' was the Club knocking back Houston and doubling down on pick 3 for Smith - clear signs that Club wants to set itself up with longwer term framework not just next year.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Disingenious of him to claim we got a good chance to look at out younger players back end of last year and that only incremental gains are made from your mature part of the list but step change comes from your younger part of the list. All while he refused to play kids unless forced, dropped them as soon as senior players were back regardless of form or team balance and stacked a finals team full of underdone seniors when the kids were champing at the bit and playing good footy. Actions louder than words and all that.

Revisionist summary to a degree by Voss to say the least. As long as he has genuinely learnt from the cluster **** that was the management of team selection back end of last / management of getting games into the kids and not just giving it pre season lip service. Time will tell. Hope my cynicism is ill founded.

The bolded bit is pretty much the only point you make above that I agree with based on evidence rather than vibe - but that's enough for rme to bring my view on Voss back to 'neutral'.

I susepct think maybe he has been 'told' that the list has 40 players on it and Carlton is about sustainable relevance - pretty evident. To be fair though ther eis a fair amount of pressure on him to perform ( as there should be) and he has been dealt a pretty shyte hand as far as player abvailability goes - two years in a row now...

To me the big signal re Voss being 'managed' was the Club knocking back Houston and doubling down on pick 3 for Smith - clear signs that Club wants to set itself up with longwer term framework not just next year.

Part of the shit hand is his overuse of the same players without rest or rotation. Just cram them in till they stop working. So not entirely escaping on that excuse imo.

 

[JustaBattler]

Part of the shit hand is his overuse of the same players without rest or rotation. Just cram them in till they stop working. So not entirely escaping on that excuse imo.

I'm not a buyer of that argument tbh - sans specific references to player for player swap - teh VFl squad hasnt been exactly full of guns pushing for selection...Ive read lots of commenary during he year re Binns not getting a go and wishes that Wilson perrhaps deserves a call up ...have I msised anyone else in the plethora of alternatives that the memic vibe on here at times referenced as clear signs that Voss plays favourites? Really a lot of peole were suggesting Binns over Ollie for a long time- aso that is one young player over another- I dont see heavy bias against young players as thing at Carlton tbh.

All that said - I have no doubt that teh VFL team will have much more real developing depth and fitter players in there which shoudl provide a consistent benchmark and developmental environment for tsome of the yioung tlent that has bene added- I'm veryu pleased to see most of the prennial injured let go- and replaced hopefyully with better bodies.

Binns/Lord/Moir/Wilson/Lemmey shoudl be pushing for selection - who knows how quickly or bnot teh Camporeles will be...Im excited about OKeefe base don what I have seen of him - but again he has copped bahd hamstrings two year in a row now.

All that said I think the game plan particularrly exiting defensive fifty and trsansition between the arcs totally SUX. I see evidenve that Voss failed to embrace the reality that his seniour squad was done before finals and perhaps play more kids - he as much admitted that he was rolling the dice before teh finals game against Brisbane - I wasnt impressed at all.


However who knows what marketing pressures he was under to get an on paper team out on the ground for supporters to pray and hope over?

Big year for Vossy coming up I think - if he and hios coaching team dont improve transition and defensive stoppages there will be protest - and there are 17 players up for contract. Quite a pivotal year for the Club I think.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Transition was pretty good this season and scores from turnover absolutely brilliant. We fixed those prior weaknesses, we just really sucked at stoppage which was totally weird after topping or near topping scores from stoppage for the 2 years before this season.

The layers are there, just need to execute them better as a whole.

Continuity is so important though, having a fit list is critical to any teams chances and that’s not just at AFL level.
Getting pumped at reserves level because you have less than a handful of senior listed players playing is just as big a problem.


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[windows1]

Disingenious of him to claim we got a good chance to look at out younger players back end of last year and that only incremental gains are made from your mature part of the list but step change comes from your younger part of the list. All while he refused to play kids unless forced, dropped them as soon as senior players were back regardless of form or team balance and stacked a finals team full of underdone seniors when the kids were champing at the bit and playing good footy. Actions louder than words and all that.

Revisionist summary to a degree by Voss to say the least. As long as he has genuinely learnt from the cluster **** that was the management of team selection back end of last / management of getting games into the kids and not just giving it pre season lip service. Time will tell. Hope my cynicism is ill founded.

His selections at the end of the year were rubbish. Would like to see some humility and acknowledgment from him but he seems a very stubborn individual. We’ve had plenty of them ant the club lately. Agreed with his comment they have to earn it.

 

[DangerousD]

I susepct think maybe he has been 'told' that the list has 40 players on it and Carlton is about sustainable relevance - pretty evident. To be fair though ther eis a fair amount of pressure on him to perform ( as there should be) and he has been dealt a pretty shyte hand as far as player abvailability goes - two years in a row now...

To me the big signal re Voss being 'managed' was the Club knocking back Houston and doubling down on pick 3 for Smith - clear signs that Club wants to set itself up with longwer term framework not just next year.

Im on board with this line of thinking but feel there is a bit of a contradiction here, the sustainable relevance that you reference reminds me of Geelong, constantly with a squad good enough to win enough games of football to give themselves a chance at a flag, but needing a bit of luck to get over the line.

The contradiction i see and it doesnt mean im right, but i would have seen adding Houston as reinforcing the sustainable relevance compared to adding Smith, i see Geelong embrace adding the proven player and focusing on a rolling 3-5 year period, where by adding Smith i think we have taken a much longer term view.

As you mentioned big year for Voss, a lot of pressure, which is why i think he was so keen to add Houston yo the list.

 

[JustaBattler]

Im on board with this line of thinking but feel there is a bit of a contradiction here, the sustainable relevance that you reference reminds me of Geelong, constantly with a squad good enough to win enough games of football to give themselves a chance at a flag, but needing a bit of luck to get over the line.

The contradiction i see and it doesnt mean im right, but i would have seen adding Houston as reinforcing the sustainable relevance compared to adding Smith, i see Geelong embrace adding the proven player and focusing on a rolling 3-5 year period, where by adding Smith i think we have taken a much longer term view.

As you mentioned big year for Voss, a lot of pressure, which is why i think he was so keen to add Houston yo the list.

My clearing thought re the choice between a developed very good player and what Carlton did this year are :

Houston would have added firepower - but I think the Club decided to invest heavilly in the next generation when they added Smith. The 'next generation' is a novel concept at Carlton. We want a dominant VFL team pushing the standards up from below rather than total reliance on the AFL team setting the standards they are at. Sustainable means having at lest 5-6 AFL ready role players playing stroing football in VFL week in wek out - not 1or two.

and I stand by my view that thsi is a cler signal to Voss that he has enough firepower to use to go deep into September already - make it work because if there is to be a next coach - teh Club doesn't want them coming in and having nothing to build on looking forward and all pressure on short term.

We haven't experienced s supporers genuien finals certianty for two decades - that si teh first benchmark to achieve- make that sustainable. As you say winning a flag erequires as much luck with injuries for example as anything else. Whilst being teh ultimate success- it woudlo be gret to be able to have repeated success as a possinbility.

 

[Arr0w]

Challenge would be on everyone at the club to nail a flag in the next 3 years, from Voss/footy department, players, HP and list management

 

[Crippa#9]

Nic Haynes will be playing Round 1.

 

[Arr0w]

First SSP period closes this Thursday I believe, but sounds like we are still auditioning the same names at this stage

DGB, McMahon, Carroll, Durdin

Phillips and White under the safety net of signing with the VFL squad

 

[FlowersByIrene]

If Harley Reid was part of an academy he still goes at 1. Not saying Cody is Harley or even goes that high, but if he is the clear standout its more likely then not hes gets a bid with pick 1.

Daicos was the clear No.1 and didn't go #1.

 

[BlueTongue]

The bolded bit is pretty much the only point you make above that I agree with based on evidence rather than vibe - but that's enough for rme to bring my view on Voss back to 'neutral'.

I susepct think maybe he has been 'told' that the list has 40 players on it and Carlton is about sustainable relevance - pretty evident. To be fair though ther eis a fair amount of pressure on him to perform ( as there should be) and he has been dealt a pretty shyte hand as far as player abvailability goes - two years in a row now...

To me the big signal re Voss being 'managed' was the Club knocking back Houston and doubling down on pick 3 for Smith - clear signs that Club wants to set itself up with longwer term framework not just next year.

I don't mind the club looking out for whats best and 'managing' Voss, but I do think they could have 'put the breaks on' earlier (Fantasia), pushed the youth policy long before everyone got their hopes up. Bringing in Haynes kinda flies in the face of that also, but I guess it's not a long contract and he is not 'cooked' like Orazio.

 

[heatleystandend]

I don't mind the club looking out for whats best and 'managing' Voss, but I do think they could have 'put the breaks on' earlier (Fantasia), pushed the youth policy long before everyone got their hopes up. Bringing in Haynes kinda flies in the face of that also, but I guess it's not a long contract and he is not 'cooked' like Orazio.

You obviously haven’t watched a GWS game the last few years. Haynes has been deplorable at AFL level. He is the definition of cooked. I have enormous faith in Austin but this one is a real head scratcher.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You obviously haven’t watched a GWS game the last few years. Haynes has been deplorable at AFL level. He is the definition of cooked. I have enormous faith in Austin but this one is a real head scratcher.

From what I recall he had some sort of extreme digestive issues which prevented him from eating and recovering properly. Forget who told us that but they had a connection to Haynes.

I agree that he looked cooked but let's hope he can turn it around for a couple of years and play a role solidly for us.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

The problem for me Soap is with Durdin is that he’s body hasn’t stood up to VFL level, now that has some substantial evidence tin which his body might not just be able to withstand the loadings to play at the highest level, on the flip side it may part of the problem with the people in our high performance program, atm we are only guessing…

Carroll looked a good rookie selection last season, a third tall/rebounding type who had good footy nous, lockdown his opponent whilst also providing the skills in the air and ground level in rebounding from defense and further up the ground..
I kind of hope he shows his skills during preseason, gets a clear run from being injured all year…

Phillips imo should be a no brainer for our list, DGB has some great traits but his main flaw still he hasn’t improved his contested one on one area of his game, which is a little disappointing, the major flaw atm holding him back from a good AFL career… hope he can sort it out…

Phillips for Durdin is 100% a no brainer...

Nigel's a terrific fella from all accounts, but his body is Marchy-esque!

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

You obviously haven’t watched a GWS game the last few years. Haynes has been deplorable at AFL level. He is the definition of cooked. I have enormous faith in Austin but this one is a real head scratcher.

Delve deeper.

He had some significant medium term health issues (not injury related) - now apparently/allegedly resolved...

 

[Aphrodite]

You obviously haven’t watched a GWS game the last few years. Haynes has been deplorable at AFL level. He is the definition of cooked. I have enormous faith in Austin but this one is a real head scratcher.

Maybe have a read of this:-

A laidback cat: Weitering hails Haynes' early influence

It's clear that Jacob Weitering is delighted to be working with fellow All-Australian defender Nick Haynes.

www.carltonfc.com.au

For co-vice captain Weitering, who has been the experienced head of Carlton’s defensive group alongside Nic Newman, the addition of Haynes has been a very welcomed one.

“Haynesy’ is a pretty laidback cat, but I’ve really enjoyed getting to know him,” Weitering told Carlton Media.
“For a lot of the older and younger guys, to learn a little bit off him will be great.
In training, he’s certainly impressed - I’m definitely excited to play alongside him.”

 

[BigFrizz36]

We really look like we are putting some work into ensuring that our reserves are ultra competitive next year. Quite a few signings including Vickery from Sydney today (+ Phillips and Evans with AFL experience).

Have to admit that my first thought was "we haven't signed Ty have we". Fortunately we haven't.

Just replacing the perennially injured will give us 3 or 4 more AFL listed players available and with the signings so far it sounds like we'll have a competitive squad .

 

[BlueTongue]

You obviously haven’t watched a GWS game the last few years. Haynes has been deplorable at AFL level. He is the definition of cooked. I have enormous faith in Austin but this one is a real head scratcher.

I've seen a few but not sure I've noticed because their defense is so good.

So, that just makes the whole KPD hunt a lot more confusing.

If he is that cooked, and Gov is really the HB/intercept (and when fit he is a beautiful kick and reader/architect of the play - just a deplorable defender), and Young might as well be stuck in a revolving door, then why not a KPD instead of another medium defender?

 

[teagueyubeauty]

We really look like we are putting some work into ensuring that our reserves are ultra competitive next year. Quite a few signings including Vickery from Sydney today (+ Phillips and Evans with AFL experience).

Have to admit that my first thought was "we haven't signed Ty have we". Fortunately we haven't.

Just replacing the perennially injured will give us 3 or 4 more AFL listed players available and with the signings so far it sounds like we'll have a competitive squad .

Cannot underestimate just how important a competitive/contending reserves side is to the development of the list as a whole.
Frustrating we’ve never really had a competitive reserves side consistently good, we have no excuse now when we have cash pouring into the club




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[Pablito]

Based on the interview today, if I had to put money on it I'd say TDK is gone.

Seemed to clam up a bit when asked about his contract. Eyes down, stuttering. He's at the very least considering the offers (I mean who wouldn't).

I just hope we have the cap space to match and demand a kings ransom.

 

[carlton_99]

Based on the interview today, if I had to put money on it I'd say TDK is gone.

Seemed to clam up a bit when asked about his contract. Eyes down, stuttering. He's at the very least considering the offers (I mean who wouldn't).

I just hope we have the cap space to match and demand a kings ransom.

I didn't get that sense at all from the interview. Stressed how much he loves the club and playing with this group. Was pretty up beat throughout imo. Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see idk

 

[BlueNath]

Based on the interview today, if I had to put money on it I'd say TDK is gone.

Seemed to clam up a bit when asked about his contract. Eyes down, stuttering. He's at the very least considering the offers (I mean who wouldn't).

I just hope we have the cap space to match and demand a kings ransom.

TDK: "I’ve grown up playing with a bunch of these boys since I got drafted and we’ve stuck together and grown up in the Club together, and I’m really loving my footy with them."

I got the opposite impression. I feel like he knows we are close to a premiership and wants to be a big part of it.

I think he will knock back some crazy offers and will commit for less. Lets hope the club can get a deal done early next year to stop the distractions that will inevitably come

 

[Aphrodite]

Based on the interview today, if I had to put money on it I'd say TDK is gone.

Seemed to clam up a bit when asked about his contract. Eyes down, stuttering. He's at the very least considering the offers (I mean who wouldn't).

I just hope we have the cap space to match and demand a kings ransom.

Not the impression I got at all.

Watch it again.

What they said: De Koning embracing expectations

Tom De Koning provides an update from the Sunshine Coast.

www.carltonfc.com.au

"I’ve grown up playing with a bunch of these boys since I got drafted and we’ve stuck together and grown up in the Club together, and I’m really loving my footy with them. The more games we play together, the more cohesion we get.

"My main focus is playing my role for the team, listening to what Vossy and the coaches have to say for me and the rest will take care of itself when it happens."

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Based on the interview today, if I had to put money on it I'd say TDK is gone.

Seemed to clam up a bit when asked about his contract. Eyes down, stuttering. He's at the very least considering the offers (I mean who wouldn't).

I just hope we have the cap space to match and demand a kings ransom.

Yeah nah....just the opposite - thought it was really positive.

What were you expecting him to say?