List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Wickzki]

Bringing a top 10 pick into the trade could help both sides.
I guess if Gresham gets overpaid by ~$250k, then the two sides get to work out a way to break pick ~10 up. all it’s really costing is an extra ~$250k PA from what they would otherwise be paying anyway.

It's still overpaying. If you told me that it was a front loaded contract and that they had the room to do it for one year. Then that would change things a little bit, but if it's over to a lifetime of the contract then that's another decent player they wouldn't be able to add to the list.

The top four teams this year - after finals - with a strongest lists in regards to depth in the AFL this year. Give me that extra player over a play that's not a genuine star and never will be.

Gresham is a B grader and neither is Shiel. Only A graders or genuine culture shifters are worth paying overs for.

 

[Blue__Balls]

We cooled on Gresham.
He had interest in us, and a figure around 500k seemed to be the going rate.
But SOS was never going to let him leave for a band 3 compo pick and we were never going to enter into a bidding war for a player like that.

Saints and Bombers are now working together to do some very clever/edgy deals that would see the saints take Shiel and his full salary for a semi high pick, but the bombers will the pay Gresham extreme overs to ensure the saints get band 1 compo… clever… dodgy… somewhere in the middle. These are the deals the SOS and Adrian like to do.

Excellent. This is possibly one of the worst drafts for them to pull a stunt like this in. Saints will somehow wrangle Pick 13 for Gresham which will get them a 50/50 shot in the dark in a middling draft. And all they have to do is take on a highly paid ball-butcher as well, and give back a "semi-high pick" in return? What are we talking, 31 as their next best pick?

Pick 31 and Gresham for Pick 13 and Shiel looks pretty good for St Kilda, but it's hardly a turning point for their list build.

And I'm not seeing how that deal benefits Essendon in the slightest. They take unders for Shiel and get his inflated contract off the books, but in return have to commit to another inflated contract for an average half-forward flanker? Does that sound like a deal Dodo accepts?

 

[bradfisher14]

We cooled on Gresham.
He had interest in us, and a figure around 500k seemed to be the going rate.
But SOS was never going to let him leave for a band 3 compo pick and we were never going to enter into a bidding war for a player like that.

Saints and Bombers are now working together to do some very clever/edgy deals that would see the saints take Shiel and his full salary for a semi high pick, but the bombers will the pay Gresham extreme overs to ensure the saints get band 1 compo… clever… dodgy… somewhere in the middle. These are the deals the SOS and Adrian like to do.

Glad we're not getting involved if this is the price of doing business. Thanks for the insight as always.

 

[Forty3]

It's still overpaying. If you told me that it was a front loaded contract and that they had the room to do it for one year. Then that would change things a little bit, but if it's over to a lifetime of the contract then that's another decent player they wouldn't be able to add to the list.

The top four teams this year - after finals - with a strongest lists in regards to depth in the AFL this year. Give me that extra player over a play that's not a genuine star and never will be.

Gresham is a B grader and neither is Shiel. Only A graders or genuine culture shifters are worth paying overs for.

And with FA contracts, it cannot be front loaded and it can't be changed or smoothed out.
I personally think its very dumb. But time will tell I guess.

 

[Blue and Silver]

I like Gresham, so I will admit some bias here, but I am not interested at that sort of artificially inflated price.

Let SOS and Dodoro play their games. Gresham isn't what Essendon needs and Shiel won't help the Saints.

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[Sector 7G]

Excellent. This is possibly one of the worst drafts for them to pull a stunt like this in. Saints will somehow wrangle Pick 13 for Gresham which will get them a 50/50 shot in the dark in a middling draft. And all they have to do is take on a highly paid ball-butcher as well, and give back a "semi-high pick" in return? What are we talking, 31 as their next best pick?

Pick 31 and Gresham for Pick 13 and Shiel looks pretty good for St Kilda, but it's hardly a turning point for their list build.

And I'm not seeing how that deal benefits Essendon in the slightest. They take unders for Shiel and get his inflated contract off the books, but in return have to commit to another inflated contract for an average half-forward flanker? Does that sound like a deal Dodo accepts?

I wonder how Shiel feels about this deal and will he still keep getting the Property Development advice/mentoring from Welsh

 

[HarryFlashman]

Frankly, I don't see this as clever or edgy at all. Two list cloggers on bad salaries doesn't help either side improve.

Shut up! When your enemy is making mistakes only a fool points them out
I for one think it’s a brilliant & insightful idea

 

[HarryFlashman]

We cooled on Gresham.
He had interest in us, and a figure around 500k seemed to be the going rate.
But SOS was never going to let him leave for a band 3 compo pick and we were never going to enter into a bidding war for a player like that.

Saints and Bombers are now working together to do some very clever/edgy deals that would see the saints take Shiel and his full salary for a semi high pick, but the bombers will the pay Gresham extreme overs to ensure the saints get band 1 compo… clever… dodgy… somewhere in the middle. These are the deals the SOS and Adrian like to do.

Interesting- would that effect the idea of Dow going to the Saints?

 

[ctwenty1]

Shut up! When your enemy is making mistakes only a fool points them out
I for one think it’s a brilliant & insightful idea

Trade will be defining for both clubs …

 

[Michael Jezz]

We cooled on Gresham.
He had interest in us, and a figure around 500k seemed to be the going rate.
But SOS was never going to let him leave for aS band 3 compo pick and we were never going to enter into a bidding war for a player like that.

Saints and Bombers are now working together to do some very clever/edgy deals that would see the saints take Shiel and his full salary for a semi high pick, but the bombers will the pay Gresham extreme overs to ensure the saints get band 1 compo… clever… dodgy… somewhere in the middle. These are the deals the SOS and Adrian like to do.

Sos is clever. Full marks to him

 

[Arr0w]

We cooled on Gresham.
He had interest in us, and a figure around 500k seemed to be the going rate.
But SOS was never going to let him leave for a band 3 compo pick and we were never going to enter into a bidding war for a player like that.

Saints and Bombers are now working together to do some very clever/edgy deals that would see the saints take Shiel and his full salary for a semi high pick, but the bombers will the pay Gresham extreme overs to ensure the saints get band 1 compo… clever… dodgy… somewhere in the middle. These are the deals the SOS and Adrian like to do.

Makes sense, both teams benefit, smart trading

 

[AB_Blue]

St Kilda with both Dow and Shiel in the midfield ... melting moments ahead.

One thing about SOS the recruiter he stands by his choices…..


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[HarryFlashman]

Excellent. This is possibly one of the worst drafts for them to pull a stunt like this in. Saints will somehow wrangle Pick 13 for Gresham which will get them a 50/50 shot in the dark in a middling draft. And all they have to do is take on a highly paid ball-butcher as well, and give back a "semi-high pick" in return? What are we talking, 31 as their next best pick?

Pick 31 and Gresham for Pick 13 and Shiel looks pretty good for St Kilda, but it's hardly a turning point for their list build.

And I'm not seeing how that deal benefits Essendon in the slightest. They take unders for Shiel and get his inflated contract off the books, but in return have to commit to another inflated contract for an average half-forward flanker? Does that sound like a deal Dodo accepts?

to me that sounds like * have there eye on someone/a couple someones & need the cap space to help it along.
Maybe blew the budget a bit with the Parish deal & have a lot coming up in 2024

 

[DangerousD]

He's good but it's all about playing the odds . Two 2nds and a 3rd will likely net you a better output then one late 1st the vast majority of the time. Obviously depends on who gets through and how bad we want them.

I assume he must have been quite high on the Hawks list, it’s great when these deals come off but they can bite you

 

[DangerousD]

My fear with Gresham is that SOS matches our bid just to shaft us, knowing full well that we will be obligated to orchestrate a trade once we have got gresham to committ. I don't reckon we would offer Gresh a salary that would even get the saints band 2 compo.

Didn’t Saints say a few years ago to Crouch that they wouldn’t trade for him, told Adelaide the same deal.

 

[Aphrodite]

We cooled on Gresham.
He had interest in us, and a figure around 500k seemed to be the going rate.
But SOS was never going to let him leave for a band 3 compo pick and we were never going to enter into a bidding war for a player like that.

Saints and Bombers are now working together to do some very clever/edgy deals that would see the saints take Shiel and his full salary for a semi high pick, but the bombers will the pay Gresham extreme overs to ensure the saints get band 1 compo… clever… dodgy… somewhere in the middle. These are the deals the SOS and Adrian like to do.

Good

 

[Blue Runnings]

1. Boyd has played as a small forward turned small defender. He could potentially be deployed as a midfielder, but i think his best role is to settle in the backline and give us another option for defensive run. As we saw against the Lions, having multiple quick, good ball using defenders makes a huge difference, especially if Saad has to play full lockdown mode.

2. Take a look at what Durdin was doing playing seniors in the SANFL as an 17/18 year old. He 100% has the forward craft and ability. Just needs to string games together. He's even had games for us as a young small forward where he's shown class and goal craft.

3. I think one of the biggest things we need to work on this offseason is finding a position that Cripps can go to break a tag. I don't mind the idea of Kemp spending sometime in the Midfield and Forward line in a rotation with Cripps. Our greatest strength is when Crippa is dominating the midfield, but our greatest weakness is when Crippa is a bit down, and his opponent is often BOG.
The other option which is probably less likely, is bursts from Charlie. We know he has the ability to do it, but can Cripps learn to drift forward more and actually provide rather than get in the way. This will be a big learning experience for him in the offseason. For so long he's carried the mantle of having to be the all or nothing midfielder, but now for us to improve I think he needs to add a more team orientated element to his game.

From memory Kemp played that role in the 18’s comp when he was touted to be a top 5 pick before his injury dropped him down.

 

[marcmurphy3]

It's still overpaying. If you told me that it was a front loaded contract and that they had the room to do it for one year. Then that would change things a little bit, but if it's over to a lifetime of the contract then that's another decent player they wouldn't be able to add to the list.

The top four teams this year - after finals - with a strongest lists in regards to depth in the AFL this year. Give me that extra player over a play that's not a genuine star and never will be.

Gresham is a B grader and neither is Shiel. Only A graders or genuine culture shifters are worth paying overs for.

I guess the way they'd look at is Essendon is already overpaying for Shiel so they are just swapping him out for Gresham. Still overpaying but for a player who fills a greater need so they are ahead.

St Kilda on the other hand has heaps of cap space, needs talent but is unlikely to attract any A graders via trade or FA. So they are swapping Gresham for Shiel (who arguably fills a greater need for them) but spending more $ (Shiel will be on a higher salary then they would have payed gresham) in exchange for a first round draft pick. Essentially they are buying a first round draft pick.

Clever although I'm not sure the AFL will like it.

 

[bigblueboy]

I guess the way they'd look at is Essendon is already overpaying for Shiel so they are just swapping him out for Gresham. Still overpaying but for a player who fills a greater need so they are ahead.

St Kilda on the other hand has heaps of cap space, needs talent but is unlikely to attract any A graders via trade or FA. So they are swapping Gresham for Shiel (who arguably fills a greater need for them) but spending more $ (Shiel will be on a higher salary then they would have payed gresham) in exchange for a first round draft pick. Essentially they are buying a first round draft pick.

Clever although I'm not sure the AFL will like it.

The AFL make and manipulate the rules to suit themselves ... and the coaches, players and list managers spend their careers pushing the boundaries of those rules to the limit (and often beyond). That's the culture of the industry.

 

[HarryFlashman]

The AFL make and manipulate the rules to suit themselves ... and the coaches, players and list managers spend their careers pushing the boundaries of those rules to the limit (and often beyond). That's the culture of the industry.

yeah, but "do as I say, not as I do" is also a big part of the AFL house culture

 

[Blue__Balls]

to me that sounds like * have there eye on someone/a couple someones & need the cap space to help it along.
Maybe blew the budget a bit with the Parish deal & have a lot coming up in 2024

But how is it helping them if they just replace Shiel's $800k a year with Gresham on $800k a year?

They're gifting St Kilda a Band 1 compo pick, and in return they get a slightly worse player on the same money and a mid second round pick?

And if they're getting a better pick, then the deal gets worse for St Kilda.

Say it's the Saints' future first and they improve a bit.

Pick 13 next year for Pick 13 this year, and they swap Gresham for Shiel on the same money. It's hardly groundbreaking stuff from SOS.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

North have picks coming out of their ass now. Would be disappointed if we accept peanuts for Fish. One of those future picks should be the goal.

 

[marcmurphy3]

North have picks coming out of their ass now. Would be disappointed if we accept peanuts for Fish. One of those future picks should be the goal.

You'd think they will do a goldcoast and get them both off their books this year as they are subject to review next year even if that means they get slight unders.

I doubt we get either in the fisher trade as a straight swap but will at least mean they have no reason to not give us something decent.

 

[Blue__Balls]

North have picks coming out of their ass now. Would be disappointed if we accept peanuts for Fish. One of those future picks should be the goal.

It would undoubtedly be overs for Fisher. But we could manufacture something a bit more realistic.

I'd do something like Fisher and our future third for a future end of first rounder,

Problem with a future end of first is it likely just gets chewed up on the best of the Campo boys, so it may need to be on the proviso that we can find a suitor to swap that future end of first rounder for a late first or early second this year.

If the Doggies miss out on getting Pick 4 from GC, would they consider 17 for a future end of first rounder and change? Or maybe someone like Sydney would do Pick 22 for a future end of first rounder and LOB?

EDIT: actually - thinking on this a bit more - if we hold our future first, add a future end of first rounder, then we could be well-positioned next year to trade up the board and get ahead of the first Campo bid. Might be a better approach than trying to bring picks forward into this draft. Say next year we could pull in something like Pick 8 + both Campos?

 

[HarryFlashman]

But how is it helping them if they just replace Shiel's $800k a year with Gresham on $800k a year?

They're gifting St Kilda a Band 1 compo pick, and in return they get a slightly worse player on the same money and a mid second round pick?

And if they're getting a better pick, then the deal gets worse for St Kilda.

Say it's the Saints' future first and they improve a bit.

Pick 13 next year for Pick 13 this year, and they swap Gresham for Shiel on the same money. It's hardly groundbreaking stuff from SOS.

Good point that