Preview 2023 Rd 9 Carlton vs Western Bulldogs Saturday May 13 7:30PM @ Marvel Stadium

[Aphrodite]

Team is in …






IN: Matthew Cottrell, Matthew Kennedy, Matthew Owies
OUT: Ed Curnow (Omitted), Josh Honey (Omitted), Brodie Kemp (Omitted)

AFL team news: A trio of Matts return to lineup

Three changes for the Blues Round 9 clash with the Dogs.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Backs:	Lewis Young	Jacob Weitering	Nic Newman
Half-backs:	Matt Kennedy	Mitch McGovern	Adam Saad
Centreline:	Blake Acres	Patrick Cripps	Oliver Hollands
Half-forwards:	Sam Walsh	Harry McKay	Jack Silvagni
Forwards:	Corey Durdin	Charlie Curnow	Jesse Motlop
Followers:	Marc Pittonet	George Hewett	Sam Docherty
Interchange:	Alex Cincotta	Adam Cerra	Matthew Cottrell
	Matthew Owies
Emergencies:	Ed Curnow	Jordan Boyd	Lachie Fogarty
	Brodie Kemp

 

[Poorman53]

Docherty to Bont everywhere he goes please !!

Would be pretty silly to tie up one of our few outside attacking runners with a negating role...

 

[Blue since 72]

Does seem to find the space that having Harry/Charlie is meant to create for the others to run into. I thought this was just lucky but maybe he just reads the game better than Durdin and Motlop.

Do hope we stop doing the Walsh off half forward thing to outnumber at the contest. Leave it as 6-6-6 and trust our guns to win out, so we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot.

He's like a small leading forward, gets his marks on the lead or in space whereas the other two are traditional small forward style with snaps and check sides.

So far Owies is more productive.

Agree re the Walsh thing, think teams are happy for this to happen as his opponent just stays back to help double team one of C or H. Walsh's "numbers" are fine but I'm not seeing a lot of impact from them (although he's not alone there at the moment).

With our mids and half forwards unsighted in terms of kicking goals and our smalls not doing much better it's little wonder the plan seems to be kick to Charlie or Harry at the moment.

 

[FRUMPY]

Even the bookies are trolling us.

the lions were a nice easy leg in the same-game multi at a good price.

 

[Coops93]

Do hope we stop doing the Walsh off half forward thing to outnumber at the contest. Leave it as 6-6-6 and trust our guns to win out, so we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot.

Agree with this, I hate it. I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish and it's a wasted position afaic. Rather him be in at the centre bounce to balance the bigger guys and at least have some mobility and inside/outside run.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Docherty to Bont everywhere he goes please !!

No. Cripps to Bont and start being accountable. It all starts with the leaders. No more playing midfielders defensive side of the contests to protect others. If they aren’t accountable and best their man, they can go to the VFL and learn how to. Enough.


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[The Bighouse]

Owies is a must-include this week. He was just getting into form before his injury. Jordan Boyd would be the perfect replacement for Newman

Don’t think Boyd has set the world on fire with his VFL return form. Pity, as had him in for 1st XXII.
Certainly a lot better kick than Newman.

Cotters seems to be traveling better & I’d play him as HFF.
Owies adds to the forward line too.

 

[FRUMPY]

Don’t think Boyd has set the world on fire with his VFL return form. Pity, as had him in for 1st XXII.
Certainly a lot better kick than Newman.

Cotters seems to be traveling better & I’d play him as HFF.
Owies adds to the forward line too.

Probably play keneddy back there again.....

 

[Blue since 72]

Don’t think Boyd has set the world on fire with his VFL return form. Pity, as had him in for 1st XXII.
Certainly a lot better kick than Newman.

Cotters seems to be traveling better & I’d play him as HFF.
Owies adds to the forward line too.

Think Boyd will get there soon enough but will Voss want to go with all of Boyd, Saad Doc and Cin.

I wouldn't mind Ed coming out and Doc spending more time as a mid rotation, he works well off the back of a stoppage a la Sam Mitchell and it should put a stop to this nonsense of playing Kennedy across HB.

 

[Coops93]

Agree re the Walsh thing, think teams are happy for this to happen as his opponent just stays back to help double team one of C or H. Walsh's "numbers" are fine but I'm not seeing a lot of impact from them (although he's not alone there at the moment).

With our mids and half forwards unsighted in terms of kicking goals and our smalls not doing much better it's little wonder the plan seems to be kick to Charlie or Harry at the moment.

There's a saying that goes around something like "do what your opponent would least want you to do". Would any opposition team in the league think "Hmm Walsh is at half forward again this could be an issue"? Highly, highly doubt it. If anything, they'd be happy about it. If Bont lines up at half forward for centre bounces I'll be pretty bloody happy tbh

 

[Blue since 72]

There's a saying that goes around something like "do what your opponent would least want you to do". Would any opposition team in the league think "Hmm Walsh is at half forward again this could be an issue"? Highly, highly doubt it. If anything, they'd be happy about it. If Bont lines up at half forward for centre bounces I'll be pretty bloody happy tbh

Agree except the use of Bont as an example, he's a genuine forward target when he plays there but yes, Walsh is certainly not.

 

[Coops93]

I think being disappointed in Boyds return should be a bit more measured. We have to think about where he actually is in his career.

He wasn't a long term AFL quality player, he was just breaking into the side. That level of form was new to him and he was still working out the AFL game, so to expect him to return to good AFL standard after a long injury layoff is probably unfair. He'll need likely a month or 2 in the VFL to get that standard back. I think he has AFL quality, but he's not at the standard that he will walk into a team after a long break. He'll need to build that form back up.

 

[Coops93]

Agree except the use of Bont as an example, he's a genuine forward target when he plays there but yes, Walsh is certainly not.

Agreed, I was more using the comparison in how we use Walsh as opposed to playing forward more broadly. If he lines up at half forward and tries to run to the centre before the clearance happens I'll be very happy

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Don’t think Boyd has set the world on fire with his VFL return form. Pity, as had him in for 1st XXII.
Certainly a lot better kick than Newman.

Cotters seems to be traveling better & I’d play him as HFF.
Owies adds to the forward line too.

honey was promoted on zero form in the 2s....

 

[FRUMPY]

honey was promoted on zero form in the 2s....

yeah apparently its about what position you play and not how well you are playing it....

 

[Blue since 72]

Agreed, I was more using the comparison in how we use Walsh as opposed to playing forward more broadly. If he lines up at half forward and tries to run to the centre before the clearance happens I'll be very happy

It's a tricky one for a HF to come into the centre square ball up because he has his back to the forward line and I question how much impact he can have other than perhaps a one two handball. Quite often though you can be ignored/out of position and your opponent gets to impact the forward kick with a double team and/or possible rebound.

Bit different for a HB to come through assuming we win the contest at pace with the entire forward line in front of him to kick to. Obviously we're ****ed if we don't win the contest, really is a high risk strategy.

Not sold on the idea either way tbh.

At centre bounce I'd like to see our half forwards wider to allow Charlie and Harry leading lanes (start them both deep) and doubling back in for the possible spill, smalls can wait out the back for the over kick or off the back of the pack.

 

[Monty1978]

I think being disappointed in Boyds return should be a bit more measured. We have to think about where he actually is in his career.

He wasn't a long term AFL quality player, he was just breaking into the side. That level of form was new to him and he was still working out the AFL game, so to expect him to return to good AFL standard after a long injury layoff is probably unfair. He'll need likely a month or 2 in the VFL to get that standard back. I think he has AFL quality, but he's not at the standard that he will walk into a team after a long break. He'll need to build that form back up.

I agree .. he has played under 10 games and we were flying when he played last year .. played well but we need to relax on him a little

 

[Kruezing]

Is this game sold out already ?

 

[gbatman]

Owies and Boyd are no brainer inclusions this week.

Forget Boyd's VFL form, it hasn't been too bad, we know he can play and is coming back from a long lay off. Owies we just miss his grunt and ability to find the ball and generate shots on goal. Simple selections there.

Would consider Cottrell. He's got an ability to play in the forward line, his hard up and back running is something to utilise as a half forward. Probably in Ed Curnow's spot though Ed has been good this season. Would you play them both off half forward and ask them to just cover massive amounts of ground up and back? Press back deep, run forward hard? Worth considering.

Our backline has been ok but could be better IMO. Kemp has come in and has turned a corner, he's been really good, bemuses me how we continued to give that role to Plowman for as long as we have. McGovern hasn't been as good as last year but he's still playing well. Saad has not been as good the last few weeks but that's by his standards, generally he's been ok. Cincotta has been really good, especially for a developing player, worth sticking with, will get better. Young has been poor and has been most of the season. His decision making, body strength and confidence to just go for the ball has all been rubbish. Weitering has not been good by his standards, since his injury last season he has not had the strength and quality in the contest, his intercept marking has been down. Newman goes out. Docherty spending time in the middle, Williams out and Saad slow return after the hamstring are all things going against our defence but the new additions have gone well. We will be rewarded by developing Cincotta and Kemp.

Forward line is no good. It's slow, it's ability to close on where the ball is and tackle is shithouse and that's being generous. Owies out injured a lot hurts us. Motlop, I will keep saying it but he's not fit enough, his work rate is poor but he is a second year player so there is that. Fisher not tackling and not doing things involving body contact has not been tolerated which is good. Durdin, he's just not clicking and going forward at the rate I thought he might. His effort, his tackling and chasing have been decent. Our talls are up and down. Silvagni is an up and down player but so is his role in the forward line each week. I think our ball movement does no favours here. Tackling and chasing pressure is sub par. Definitely need to recruit forward and improve the ones we have, get them fit etc.

Midfield we know is only half working. Go back to start of last season and the synergy of the group looked good. Now what's changed? Teams know that forcing us into a one on one at stoppages takes away our clearance dominance. Then the game becomes more about outside run, which football is, it's more of an outside game than an inside game and we don't go so well at that. We look a bit big and slow in there and we are. But Docherty, Walsh and Cerra should bring balance to that. I think thought at stoppages, we need to be on the move more, big heavy blokes take time to get going so feet need to be moving, especially if the opposition are initiating contact, IMO when that happens this should be a que for our blokes to get on the move.

One area we are failing in is midfield rotations. When our forwards have low GPS numbers or they are out of the game, throw them in there. Durdin, Motlop. Put them in the middle for 5, give one of the other guys a rest, get the forward into the game. IMO Durdin is a good midfielder and we never use him there.

I think we need to go back to more basic, less "coached" footy. That means we get it and we just go, go best option, run it where possible, go long but we go forward fast, that's the main thing. Consider players have to run back to defend, that's why we have to move it forward quickly. We did it a bit last year and it was hit and miss but that was more about execution when it failed. Get the ball moving quickly and just pump it long into the opposition's defensive zone and ask the question of it. You can chip it around and go around those midfield zones but all that does is allow the zone to roll back into your forward 50 and that's what we are having problems with. At some stage you have to bust through a zone of players to score, better to try and do that in the midfield and make the most of the space out the back in your forward line than to move it slow, let the zone settle in your forward line and try and score in that situation.

I think a game plan where we play on more, kick long to contests, look to run and carry and don't hold up and wait so much is where we need to go to. Especially from an intercept and switch, that should be the moment we just go, no holding up just get it forward as quick as possible, catch the opposition players gassed and out of position and burn them.

As everyone is saying our ball movement is an issue. The old saying "hard to play against" applies heavily to us. We should be hard to defend against, hard to run defensively against, hard to play on.

Here's a question I would want to ask the coaching and playing group. "knowing that most of the time you have to go into defensive cluster/zone when transitioning the ball from one end to the ground to the other in AFL footy, what part of the ground do you prefer to enter this cluster"? I would say it would be wing or half back. You do, generally when moving the footy, you hit a part of the ground where the opposition players have congregated and you have to get through that or it's turned over but usually when you get through there's space the other side of it. Thing with our game plan is that we have slowed things up to a point where we are hitting that defensive cluster inside our Forward 50 and not on centre wing or half back as we should be.

IMO, good transition in AFL footy is about seeing this cluster of players and getting the ball to it or to the side of it (level with it) as quickly as possible so that the next kick can go forward into space. This is the very thing we are doing poorly. Get the ball to or level with where the heavy zone of players are quickly and then, if you win it, you have forward line space.

This is what we need to start doing, the opposition this week, they are going alright, they are probably on par with us. But we need to tidy up a few things with our ball movement and stoppage work.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Is it time to cut our losses and play McGovern back as a high-half forward ?

I love him down back but we aren't going anywhere unless we can conjure up some more forward craft.

 

[Accidental genius]

Is it time to cut our losses and play McGovern back as a high-half forward ?

I love him down back but we aren't going anywhere unless we can conjure up some more forward craft.

weve been a bit slow developing kemp for defence...he isnt too far away from being a good replacement for guv but id be happy with him there from here on in and weve also got cinc who is doing well there as well.

I think moving guv back to forward group is the sort of change we need.

 

[xDQ82x]

voss game em a good bake in the review (probably to be expected) lets see if it does anything.

 

[Coops93]

It's a tricky one for a HF to come into the centre square ball up because he has his back to the forward line and I question how much impact he can have other than perhaps a one two handball. Quite often though you can be ignored/out of position and your opponent gets to impact the forward kick with a double team and/or possible rebound.

Bit different for a HB to come through assuming we win the contest at pace with the entire forward line in front of him to kick to. Obviously we're ****ed if we don't win the contest, really is a high risk strategy.

Not sold on the idea either way tbh.

At centre bounce I'd like to see our half forwards wider to allow Charlie and Harry leading lanes (start them both deep) and doubling back in for the possible spill, smalls can wait out the back for the over kick or off the back of the pack.

The issue you describe is exactly how I feel. Best case scenario when he gets the ball running away from his own goals is what really? giving a hand off, like you say... or perhaps having to turn and kick, which stops all his momentum and makes the kick weaker?

I'm not really sure what the supposed gain is and from what I can see it's only negatives. I'm sure there's something I'm missing as we keep doing it, so I'd love to know the positive from it.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Is it time to cut our losses and play McGovern back as a high-half forward ?

I love him down back but we aren't going anywhere unless we can conjure up some more forward craft.

Doesn't even need to be a permanent shift - could swing him forward for 10 minutes here or there and see if it gives us a different look.

My concern with it is that our mids are generally pretty ordinary at hitting up targets at the best of times, so how much direct supply is he likely to get? And if we take him out of the backline, then fail to give him any supply as a forward, we've just short-staffed the defensive group for no reason.

If we play him forward I think there's two methods.

1. Park him deep in the goalsquare or in the pocket, sit the ball high to the square and direct Charlie/Harry to just body up as many defenders as possible, with the hope that Gov can launch over the pack.

2. Play him in the CHF role that Harry is currently filling. Use Gov as the last kick inside 50 as often as possible, with both one of Harry/Charlie anchored in the square and the other leading aggressively.

 

[Coops93]

voss game em a good bake in the review (probably to be expected) lets see if it does anything.

It motivated one of the players to say finals aren't the goal so must've done something... what that is though I'm not sure.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

It motivated one of the players to say finals aren't the goal so must've done something... what that is though I'm not sure.

He literally said finals was one of the goals…