List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[StCicatriz]

Really, Shiel is borderline untradeable. There is no sugar coating it, or talking it up.. Borderline untradeable.

Injured. No preseason until January at best. Pace is gone. Has an ongoing foot problem

Averages 13 games per year over the past three. (best run in 2021 of 19 games).

31 years old in March.

Two to three seasons left at best.

And the clincher.... Seven figure deal, or close to it with one year to run.

Stretch that out and really that's not even a third rounder. Unless he had four flags under his belt and had serious coaching aspirations.

He's cooked. Extremely limited value in adding this player to your list.

Is trading up five picks, from 13 to 8 worth a million dollars? Absolutely not.

Unless, a bigger picture comes into play.

Essington unquestionably trigger Band 1 compensation for Gresham, bringing in pick 13.

Pick 31 back for Shiel and Pick 8. We are buying that pick, and a speculative player, with known history however, for that seven figure salary. As awful as it sounds.

But I'll be arsed if trading a top 20 pick on an injured guy on the wrong side of the hill for a million dollars.

Leaves us with 8, 12 & 13 before further free agency compensation.

Surely, you would probably offer an extra year for Shiel, potentially with triggers for a third and smooth that money out. You never know. But it is still horrendous. At least Hannas had the decency to lower his coin.

That's pretty much the scenario right? I read through the last 80 pages to get here.

nailed it

Its salary dump with draft capital coming our way or no deal

 

[Atomboy]

Supporters are going to have to get acclimatised to these type of salary relief trades as there’s going to be more of them as time goes by.

Do the Collingwood supporters who had the pitchforks out at the time now look back on the Treloar, Stephenson, Phillips and then Grundy trades the same way?

There still paying out money on some of those trades! But it allowed them to move forward with their overall strategy more aggressively and efficiently.

I think we need to stop judging trades in isolation and look at the sum of all parts at the end of trade and draft periods. Our newly assembled list team will have a 3-5 year strategy that they are working to and some trades may not look like wins immediately but may allow wins in the future.

I know we have been burnt previously but none of those people are even there making those calls.




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Yeah but the way the Pies did it was to move players incidental to needs and/or salary off the books.

The “Sheil Deal” appears to be the exact opposite in both the player and salary.

 

[StCicatriz]

IF this deal has legs (I.e. a bona fide St Kilda interest in Sheil) then yes 13 ends up with Essendon somehow, but stuff back to us will be thrashed out (such as the pick required for Henry). Think like Doro and you have your answer. It's like p5 all over again, I guarantee it.

The difference is the ownice was on us to get a deal done to secure Carlisle

The ownise here is on essendon given the cap pressure they're gonna be under with McKay, Gresham and Goldstein.

 

[botts]

nailed it

Its salary dump with draft capital coming our way or no deal

That exactly what it is. Why do Essendon supporter think they are gonna get a first rounder. Mind boggling

 

[Premium]

I don't think the club

I don't think we want to keep him. I reckon we have a whole lot of deals that need trade capital so he's the sacrificial player. I think he is worth a first rounder though. He's had 2 injury interrupted years and hasn't been at his best this year particularly. Lyon stifled all his flair and creativity which is just not his thing.

He struggled to fit into the system but by the end of the year he'd improved out of sight and he was one of our few players that held up under finals pressure.

His potential is so much more than what you see right now. Get him playing his best and you've got a match winner dynamic forward mid who'll entertain you.

I don't think the club think that way or he would already have a contract.

 

[StCicatriz]

SOS ain't gags.

Henry gets done for a pick in the 30s.

The idea its Gresham for Henry and Shiel is hilarious.

If we are doing that we are still selling low and buying high. You keep having those expectations and think their realistic then you'll never win a flag.

You need to have some ****in metal about ya.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

That argument is gets used often but it really has no legs in my view.
All those father sons and academy selections weren’t available to you guys anyway so it’s still pick 19 or 19th best available player selected. You can’t actually think Gresham is worth a first round pick.. just like Shiel isn’t worth a first round pick, Gresham is worth a early second at best - which is exactly what you would using for him. It’s completely fair
Every supporter base biasly values their players more than what they are.

Every single news station on it says you guys don’t want to keep him.. so I’m absolutely calling your bluff haha. You only say that because Ross plays his poker face well in the media that all of a sudden use are keen to keep him.
Time will tell

 

[Neil Elvis Winmar]

Yeah but the way the Pies did it was to move players incidental to needs and/or salary off the books.

The “Sheil Deal” appears to be the exact opposite in both the player and salary.

Someone was saying Essendon would be crazy to do the deal which seamed well in our favour. I’m just explaining why it might be attractive to them even though on the surface seems a bit one sided to us.

The Stavro version not the John Ralph version of the trade hypothetical that is.

GC & Collingwood we’re in the Essendon position. We are in the Geelong position of last year.

We are in a great position to take advantage of the these type of deals right now.


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[Neil Elvis Winmar]

I'm sorry but you'll have to leave now.
We can't have that kind of talk at this time..

Why?


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[kernelT]

Adrian has floated throwing Gumbleton in as a sweetener, former pick 2, only 35 years old, tall, all that WADA palaver well behind him now.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

The only questions here that need to be asked are ...... How desperate are the Dopers to rid themselves of Shiel and his million $ 1 year contract? What are they willing to do and or give up in return for another team to take on his remaining contract and shitty feet?

The Band 1 compensation talk for Gresham is only gunna happen if we agree to a Shiel deal as well ...... so is a 5 pick upgrade from 13 (the compensation pick which would go back to the Bummers) to 8 which we would get from the Bummers ... enough or too little or too much?

Just how desperate are the Injectors to move Shiel on?

There is no way we take on Shiel without something very good coming back our way

 

[kernelT]

We are in the Geelong position of last year.

Fantastic, we take Shiel and pick 8 for pick 50.

 

[Bertha]

I heard that Dan Andrews is looking to take up a position in Essendon's list management team, apparently with Dildoro moving on they're worried they don't have enough shit kent's in the house and feel the need to bolster

 

[kernelT]

I heard that Dan Andrews is looking to take up a position in Essendon's list management team, apparently with Dildoro moving on they're worried they don't have enough s**t kent's in the house and feel the need to bolster

Take it to the cooker forum noodles.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Just my opinion. You don’t have to agree and that’s perfectly fine.

Well yes, that’s just my opinion too.

But I just cannot understand that sentiment….that you’d rather accept a third round compensation pick for Gresh than have Shiel on our list “under any circumstances.”

In marketing terms, he’ll be a loss leader - take him as a salary dump in order to achieve a better draft pick.

 

[phantom13]

I’d get the angst if we were shoving Gresh out the door to get this pick/Shiel deal but it doesn’t seem like that’s the case.

Gresh wants big ass cash, more than he’s realistically worth. Essendon is willing to pay it and there’s a theoretical deal that benefits all parties.

Whether it gets done or not it’s not a tragedy in any way

 

[St Neil]

That argument is gets used often but it really has no legs in my view.
All those father sons and academy selections weren’t available to you guys anyway so it’s still pick 19 or 19th best available player selected. You can’t actually think Gresham is worth a first round pick.. just like Shiel isn’t worth a first round pick, Gresham is worth a early second at best - which is exactly what you would using for him. It’s completely fair
Every supporter base biasly values their players more than what they are.

Every single news station on it says you guys don’t want to keep him.. so I’m absolutely calling your bluff haha. You only say that because Ross plays his poker face well in the media that all of a sudden use are keen to keep him.
Time will tell

Seriously? Look at the transaction and the Essendon side of the equation. It’s a simple business transaction.

It’s not about what you think Gresham is worth, or what Essendon thinks Gresham is worth, but what Essendon have to do in order to get him.

Think it through. Band 1 compo and he’s yours. No draft picks. No loss of draft capital. No need to trade anything. Keep all of your picks and get the player for a little extra salary. Win.

Band 2. We probably match and you either have to trade for him (and lose draft capital) or just walk away with nothing. Draw/Loss.

Saints will probably match band 2 which will end up a pick in the mid 20s on draft night. That is factual, regardless of whether we have access to players previously drafted. It’s still a mid 20s pick. Gresham is worth more than that.

It’s not hard to understand. Personally I hope we keep Gresham but if we get band 1 compo then I’ll support the club.

Essendon can please themselves. But just look at the Essendon side of the transaction required to get your man rather the semantics about whether you think he is worth band 1 or band 2 compensation. Because that compensation does not form part of the Essendon side of the transaction.

 

[phantom13]

Seriously? Look at the transaction and the Essendon side of the equation. It’s a simple business transaction.

It’s not about what you think Gresham is worth, or what Essendon thinks Gresham is worth, but what Essendon have to do in order to get him.

Think it through. Band 1 compo and he’s yours. No draft picks. No loss of draft capital. No need to trade anything. Keep all of your picks and get the player for a little extra salary. Win.

Band 2. We probably match and you either have to trade for him (and lose draft capital) or just walk away with nothing. Draw/Loss.

Saints will probably match band 2 which will end up a pick in the mid 20s on draft night. That is factual, regardless of whether we have access to players previously drafted. It’s still a mid 20s pick. Gresham is worth more than that.

It’s not hard to understand. Personally I hope we keep Gresham but if we get band 1 compo then I’ll support the club.

Essendon can please themselves. But just look at the Essendon side of the transaction required to get your man rather the semantics about whether you think he is worth band 1 or band 2 compensation. Because that compensation does not form part of the Essendon side of the transaction.

Exactly. Gresh isn’t worth a first rounder. Gresham and a salary dump might be, and Gresham a salary dump for a first rounder that isn’t even yours and comes after your first anyway…

Hard to see how this is bad for anyone.

 

[gringo2011]

I’d get the angst if we were shoving Gresh out the door to get this pick/Shiel deal but it doesn’t seem like that’s the case.

Gresh wants big ass cash, more than he’s realistically worth. Essendon is willing to pay it and there’s a theoretical deal that benefits all parties.

Whether it gets done or not it’s not a tragedy in any way

Isn't that what Ross thought with Lauchie Neale? If he's getting us band 3 it's not unreasonable to match.

 

[phantom13]

Isn't that what Ross thought with Lauchie Neale? If he's getting us band 3 it's not unreasonable to match.

I have no idea what you’re talking about or what relevance it has to my post gring?

 

[St Neil]

Exactly. Gresh isn’t worth a first rounder. Gresham and a salary dump might be, and Gresham a salary dump for a first rounder that isn’t even yours and comes after your first anyway…

Hard to see how this is bad for anyone.

Yet Essendon people who come on to our board are fixated about Gresham only being worth band 2 compo.

I mean, if I was an Essendon supporter, who cares. My club would be getting a terrific player without having to use ANY draft capital. Yet they either don’t seem to either understand that or feel an objection to Gresham attracting band 1 compo.

They would rather trade pick 27, than get him for free with St Kilda getting pick 13. They ignore the Essendon side of the transaction.

I just don’t understand their logic.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yet Essendon people who come on to our board are fixated about Gresham only being worth band 2 compo.

I mean, if I was an Essendon supporter, who cares. My club would be getting a terrific player without having to use ANY draft capital. Yet they either don’t seem to either understand that or feel an objection to Gresham attracting band 1 compo.

They would rather trade pick 27, than get him for free with St Kilda getting pick 13. They ignore the Essendon side of the transaction.

I just don’t understand their logic.

Don't try, they are as delusional as the Crow supporters with Crouch.

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[gringo2011]

I have no idea what you’re talking about or what relevance it has to my post gring?

Neither do I.

 

[kernelT]

I’d get the angst if we were shoving Gresh out the door to get this pick/Shiel deal but it doesn’t seem like that’s the case.

Gresh wants big ass cash, more than he’s realistically worth. Essendon is willing to pay it and there’s a theoretical deal that benefits all parties.

Whether it gets done or not it’s not a tragedy in any way

Who cares what players are supposedly worth in cash or picks, if we're willing to eat up 1 mil to help out the dons salary predicament then we have at least 1 mil we could be putting towards Greshams salary, front loaded so we end up paying him 550 for the following 4 years, which will be a cheap contract in 2028.

He's a good player who could absolutely help us challenge. If we can afford his salary easily and the potential compensation is a bit shit or risky then I'd prefer we challenge our coaches to get him back to a 60-shot a goal forward/mid, unless there are others floating around.

If Essendon are on fire, I'm pissing into my shoes.

It needs to be a serious advantage to us otherwise we're just helping an enemy for SFA.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I think this just goes to show use, it's not the quantity of members that counts, it's all about the quality, and they've got * all over there.

Corrected it for youse.