List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[jimmytigs]

knowing we cant get anything for billings anyway i see no downside with him in 2024 for us,he either comes out with the attitude enoughs enough and tears a new one in 2024,or he continues how hes going & sadly fades off into the sunset opening up a list spot for us,cant see why he warrants so much discussion,he is what he is,lets hope he gets the continuity to give him one last chance,but its pretty black and white to me,fire in 2024 or pxxx off

 

[The Boar]

Free Agency starts in about 2.5 weeks- when have StK asked for a decision from Gresh?

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[Darrian Barnett]

Jordon doesn't excite me one bit. He'd probably be better or at least more consistent in the guts than Pou or Windy, but doesn't have any where near the same potential. All he does for us is take games away from the kids. Would rather our first round pick in the side over Jordon.
He's younger than Seb and would maybe add as much, but then you'd rather Seb's leadership and experience over Jordon.

Give me players who have a higher ceiling like Dow every day of the week

 

[stavro#4]

We‘ll see and once again you’re distorting the truth to suite your narrative. Billings was consistently amongst our best players until injury in 2021. I’m not referring to specific games or years except to point out his run with injury and the change in narrative nor have I ever referred to him as a saviour.

Now you’re adding in “ an entire football department has come in and said“ that’s the bloody herald sun which I have through work and don’t read because it’s fantasy

LOl what is distorted?

You banging on about 17/19/21 seasons.

I included 2021 and Billings has played 28 games out of the 68 games we have played in that time.

He has missed practically the last 2 seasons with injuries. IT is absolutely a stretch to call a player who has missed that much football a best 22 player.

And isn't that what has happened? hasn't a new football department come in? New list manager, New coach and coaching staff, new footy Gm and here we are talking about the Saints saying he is on the market and JBs agent pulling one of the biggest advertisement jobs for one of his players on Gettable - whilst openly saying there isn't much interest in Jack Billings this star that you think he is.


If yourself and anyone is holding onto What JB did 5+ years ago, You are distorting your own reality of where he is today. Which is not in St Kilda's Best 22 and on the trade table.

 

[stavro#4]

Free Agency starts in about 2.5 weeks- when have StK asked for a decision from Gresh?

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He said himself that he should have a decision by next week

 

[stfan]

Howard - Will depend on our ability to get a replacement. If we can get someone like Clurey for free or Gardner cheap, then move Howard on for a 2nd rounder, I think we do it. If not then Howard stays and fights for a starting spot with Cordy.

2nd Rounder, after allowing for Academy and FS selections jumping the queue may end up anywhere between low 20's and 40-ish.

So if the contracted Howard goes, then if is for a pick, or picks, you would imagine it would have to be for at least an early second round pick. Otherwise it will be a terrible deal.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Billings should give Lachie Whitfield a call and ask him how he turned things around. Similar players, similar injuries and both a bit maligned. Man has he come good! Playing very aggressive from the back and nailing his kicks like a star.

I don't think they are that similar, Whitfield can run, Whitfield takes the game on with attacking kicking through the corridor and he plays wing or behind the ball. Billings has never used his skills to slice teams open or run and carry the ball.

 

[stavro#4]

2nd Rounder, after allowing for Academy and FS selections jumping the queue may end up anywhere between low 20's and 40-ish.

So if the contracted Howard goes, then if is for a pick, or picks, you would imagine it would have to be for at least an early second round pick. Otherwise it will be a terrible deal.

If we don't get a first rounder back in any deal involving Howard. It is a terrible deal and makes no sense to move him on.

 

[stavro#4]

Jordon doesn't excite me one bit. He'd probably be better or at least more consistent in the guts than Pou or Windy, but doesn't have any where near the same potential. All he does for us is take games away from the kids. Would rather our first round pick in the side over Jordon.
He's younger than Seb and would maybe add as much, but then you'd rather Seb's leadership and experience over Jordon.

Give me players who have a higher ceiling like Dow every day of the week

When do they go from Kids with potential to Taking games away from Kids?

Jordan is 23 in December.

If he came across he is literally fighting for the same midfield spots as Hunter Clark and Seb Ross along with Jones & Byrnes. As of right now there is nothing outside of those 2.

He might not be a delicious ex first round pick, but he definitely improves the list and is better then all 4 of the blokes we just delisted. He would get plenty of opportunities in the midfield for us if he gets to work.

 

[Silkie]

Love the direction of the club, the new coaching setup and the talent brought in in the last two years but we are still coming from a fair way back when it comes to talent on the list. Think the Dogs, Adelaide, Fremantle and the Suns as a starting point have more talented lists then us.

Think we will improve next year but there is every chance we get jumped by a few clubs as well, improvement doesn't have to be linear on the ladder.

There's also every chance that a few teams above us drop off too.

I have Port missing finals altogether due to the Hinkley debacle, Melbourne could drop, Brisbane too if they **** it up again or even if they win the whole thing and lose the hunger.

Improvement doesn't have to be linear but we should be expecting finals imo

 

[Mowman]

I agree with all your points.

But within reason, i can accept missing finals to go forwards in 2025. (My expectations are that we play finals next year.)

I can’t accept missing finals next year

If that happens it’s a fail

 

[sauce_head]

Club list manager , " So Jack , tell us why you want to play for us "
"Well i was on $X00000 at the Saints but now they are only going to be offering me $Z00000 "
manager.." phhhhht....cough...oh uh sorry , coffee was hotter than i thought, ok , well i'm glad we had this chat, we'll be in touch "

Good on him!

I am sure we have all turned down jobs before purely on the basis of cash.

 

[stavro#4]

I can’t accept missing finals next year

If that happens it’s a fail

If Rowan Marshall plays as many games as King did this season. We won't be near the 8 without a genuine backup or support Ruck on the list. Which we don't have

 

[sammm]

All my opinion:

Gresh - 50/50 - Will depend on the offer from Essendon. If it's too low then we will match it, or even beat it, and I think he stays. If we get band 1 (1st round) or band 2 (end of 1st round) then I think he goes.

Clark - Staying. Has an offer on the table. Only club interested was North but they've moved on to Fisher and Dyl Stephens.

Billings - Staying. Not worth it to us in a trade so we back him in to regain form.

Coff - Unsure. The Lions interest is legit but they are also sounding out Doedee from the Crows as a free agent. A swap for Lohman would suit all parties but Brisbane would probably prefer Doedee and then a pick for Kai.

Jordan - Maybe. There will be a few teams have a look at him. Going to depend on the pitch from RTB and the team.

Tomlinson - Staying at Melbourne. Has been told he won't be traded and is their FB now with Petty being transitioned to the forward line next year.

Henry - 100% in. Will be some haggling over price. Rekon it's a F2nd special.

GC #4 - Don't think we have the ammo. Dogs and Dees will both offer multiple picks, including 1st rounders.

I'll add some:

Dow - 100% coming. Will be a late/token pick.

Goldstein - Unsure. He's spoken to the Bombers via Brad Scott but I think their offer was more is more of a playing coach alongside Draper where as ours is "break glass in emergency" should a forward or RoMa get hurt.

Howard - Will depend on our ability to get a replacement. If we can get someone like Clurey for free or Gardner cheap, then move Howard on for a 2nd rounder, I think we do it. If not then Howard stays and fights for a starting spot with Cordy.

that then does nothing to our list, does it?

 

[Mowman]

If Rowan Marshall plays as many games as King did this season. We won't be near the 8 without a genuine backup or support Ruck on the list. Which we don't have

And if he plays them all there is nothing to worry

Gubby and SOS need to do their job

gringo2011 give S4 back his phone

 

[stavro#4]

And if he plays them all there is nothing to worry

Gubby and SOS need to do their job

gringo2011 give S4 back his phone

I did say within reason - that was my reason.

AS you said if he plays, No issues.

If we are expecting Heath and Campbell to carry us we might aswell book september holidays months in advance

 

[Mowman]

I did say within reason - that was my reason.

AS you said if he plays, No issues.

If we are expecting Heath and Campbell to carry us we might aswell book september holidays months in advance

This year is the standard from now on
He got his year of exploration onwards and upwards

Let’s go Saints

 

[Red White Black]

Don't understand the hate on James Jordan. 3 x the games experience to Bytel at a younger age and beats him in almost every stat at AFL level. No brainer for mine

 

[John2010362340]

James Jordon, Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

, adding these players and these types improves our overall list. That's what we are trying to do. We aren't expecting these guys to be walk up starts, but what they will do is improve training standards and competition for spots. Although we had injuries we only played 26-28 players this season. We're just not that deep. Adding players that have played a fair bit of senior footy and at an age of 22-26 and as well as going to the Draft is a smart strategy.

 

[BrutThough]

Don't understand the hate on James Jordan. 3 x the games experience to Bytel at a younger age and beats him in almost every stat at AFL level. No brainer for mine

View attachment 1807726

It's hard to be excited about someone if their selling point is being better than Bytel.

 

[gringo2011]

That's my point, people bitching about Dow's kicking really the guy's a ball magnet HB it out if need be.

That’s fine but everyone demanding that Gresham go for his kicking might need to come to terms with his disposal

 

[gringo2011]

SO our kids could go backwards but all the clubs behind us will be guaranteed to go forwards?

aren't they trying to improve our midfield depth in Henry Dow and Jordan?

Can you atleast complain factually so that your not being an emotional drunk about the state of play with us - which after this season, is quite positive.

You’re the emotional drunk mate. You say we’re moving forward but maybe backwards and everything is positive despite being a terrible list and needing to rebuild for a tilt in a few years. Confusing vision.

 

[Nomis2933]

Free Agency starts in about 2.5 weeks- when have StK asked for a decision from Gresh?

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Silence = Carlton. In my opinion its where he wants to get to, but they have bigger fish to fry right now and they dont need the distraction of trade discussions. Which is why i think 'Carlton discussions have cooled'. He has had six months of think music. He knows exactly what he wants already. He doesnt need another fortnight to make up his mind. Mad Carlton fan growing up and his brothers NGA links would have made his desire to get there even stronger.

Likewise with Coffield - if Dogs are really keen he will jump over in a heartbeat. Brisbane not so much, unless it was purely for opportunity. He was privately devastated when we took him one pick before WB could do so.

 

[stfan]

I can’t accept missing finals next year

If that happens it’s a fail

Naturally I want to play finals next year too.

However, we only made the finals by one game. If we had lost one more game, or the Dogs with their better % had won more game (and they should have) we would have missed the 8. Though yes Swans really should have missed the 8, but then the Crows really were only one game with a better % behind us.

So one less win in 2024 could see us miss the 8.


On the con side:

If get a shitty fixture next year and he may be hard to win the same number of games.
Suns likely to be better. Hawks too. Overall I think 2024 will be more difficult.
If we trade Howard out, it may help with our future, but in 2024 it will most likely be a negative in winning games.



On the pro side:
Our huge injury run will most likely be better, and so we should have a better best 22 than we fielded most weeks in 2023. Especially in Max and Steele are both fully fit
Our kids will hopeful be better (experience and just bigger/stronger bodies, especially the Poo)
Dow should improve our midfield, and midfield is where we are poorest when compared to many teams
Hopefully we get Henry too, which will help with our run. Beyond that experienced players likely to join us may be useful rather than significant.
Our coaches and players should have melded better.


I would tend to think that we will need to be better just to win the same number of games. Our overall skill level and ball use remains to me a big problem, and if we mainly have the same players playing, then this may also be a problem again in 2024.

 

[longlivelenny]

Damn we need free agency and trade period to begin ASAP. Not sure if some of the relationships will be able to be mended come trade period if it continues like this for 3 weeks

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