Resource 2024 AFL Draft discussion thread (Wed Nov 20 to Fri Nov 22)

[Peter Doherty]

You need to follow along champ, you don’t even know what you’re commenting on.

I don't need to follow along, it's boring AF.

 

[Mutineer]

He will be right up there ! And one of the surest things to make it

I'm sure he makes it too but not so sure it will be as a full time mid. Running back/wingman is where I see his attributes being best utilised.

 

[LoBu]

Got to factor in that during the Nicks era we have had much higher picks than during the Pyke era. 2019 Draft was also the start of the Nicks era, hence the three 'bads' you listed as the Pyke era (McAsey, Connor and Gollant) need to be moved into the Nicks era.

Nicks was coach for one week before we selected McAsey, so not part of the Nicks era, he was selected before Nicks came on board.

 

[LoBu]

Is that coincidence or luck? Are you suggesting Nicks tells Ogilvie which players to draft?

It's strategy that guides drafting, not coincidence or luck.

 

[LoBu]

You also have Hately and Keays. Yes they were in the ps and rookie draft but like Keane, not under Hamish’s purview. That’s the list management team. Also Max’s selection had nothing to do with Hamish, f/s who fell into our lap and ended up in the 1st round due to Sydney.

For those struggling to keep up at home, I’m referring directly to the early drafting of Hamish. Seems like a ripping bloke, enjoy listening to his interviews but they also give away a bloke that fell into his job and is out of his depth. Loved the hardworking, competitive player so much he spent all our early picks on those players until someone pointed out we don’t have players who can hit targets and win games. Half our starting team next year won’t have been drafted by our recruiter of the past decade. You can’t miss that many times and still have a job.

You're cherry picking now, but my point is the drafting since 2020 has been 100% improved, from first round to second round.

I'm not suggesting the job is done, but the drafting under Pyke was woeful.

I've provided analysis to back that up, can you do the same?

 

[Clayton Lamb]

Nicks was coach for one week before we selected McAsey, so not part of the Nicks era, he was selected before Nicks came on board.

He was selected after Nicks had become coach. Its not like Pyke personnally selected those three you classified as "Bad", lost his job, and so when Nicks became coach, Nick's decided to go with Pyke's selections.

Ogilvie is the one selecting draftees under both coaches.

 

[LoBu]

Talent ID isn't delineated based upon coaching eras. Coaches sit on list management, so they'd have a voice in decisions like whether to take 5 to the draft or use it on Rankine. But once the decision to take a pick to draft, the player is selected based upon the Talent ID group's order. List Management would likely get involved again if a trading down or up scenario reared its head. But separating drafting by senior coach tenures is nonsense.

Rubbish, the whole strategy changes under a new coach. The list management committee has changed too, giving Ogilvie clear direction.

Nicks loves highly skilled players, and wants speed. He has also demanded we trade more, including our first round picks where we can.

Unfortunately Nicks inherited a team of triers, and he has spent 5 years turning it into a highly skilled team.

To think the recruitment team work autonomous to the coach and head of football, year in year out, is the real nonsense.

 

[1970crow]

Rubbish, the whole strategy changes under a new coach. The list management committee has changed too, giving Ogilvie clear direction.

Nicks loves highly skilled players, and wants speed. He has also demanded we trade more, including our first round picks where we can.

Unfortunately Nicks inherited a team of triers, and he has spent 5 years turning it into a highly skilled team.

To think the recruitment team work autonomous to the coach and head of football, year in year out, is the real nonsense.

Oh ok, Matthew Nicks has corrected the way that Ogilvie and his team rate potential draftees. Nicks himself said that he doesn’t value talent, but rather hard workers and contested players. Bit you believe whatever helps get you through.

 

[George Kramer]

It's strategy that guides drafting, not coincidence or luck.

Whats the new strategy, draft good players not duds?

 

[Captain Furious]

You're cherry picking now, but my point is the drafting since 2020 has been 100% improved, from first round to second round.

I'm not suggesting the job is done, but the drafting under Pyke was woeful.

I've provided analysis to back that up, can you do the same?

You’ve done the analysis, take a look at it and how few of Hamish’s early picks are best 22 and how many aren’t. You’ve disproved your own point.

 

[CharlieCrow]

I'm dreaming of ultra aggressive.
Schoenberg and Burgess find themselves paid out and perhaps even someone else - like Smith, and next years third rounders somehow turn into Dodson and someone else - perhaps that kid from WA talked about above.
All fairy land of course, but, should the numbers and trades suddenly become possible, is it within the AFL list management laws?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'm sure he makes it too but not so sure it will be as a full time mid. Running back/wingman is where I see his attributes being best utilised.

I think he will be a genuine utility that can play anywhere on ground as per requirements

After settling in defence first

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Rubbish, the whole strategy changes under a new coach. The list management committee has changed too, giving Ogilvie clear direction.

Nicks loves highly skilled players, and wants speed. He has also demanded we trade more, including our first round picks where we can.

Unfortunately Nicks inherited a team of triers, and he has spent 5 years turning it into a highly skilled team.

To think the recruitment team work autonomous to the coach and head of football, year in year out, is the real nonsense.

It’s more likely the change or improvements are to do with new hires in the recruiting department more than new hires in the coaching box

 

[Captain Furious]

I don't need to follow along, it's boring AF.

cool bro, solid contribution as always

 

[LoBu]

It’s more likely the change or improvements are to do with new hires in the recruiting department more than new hires in the coaching box

What new hires? That's the only constant here.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

What new hires? That's the only constant here.

Wrong

One very experienced guy from Richmond who was hired almost 3 years ago and then another Richmond fella , you might have heard of him as he had a bit to do with 2017 granny

 

[Peter Doherty]

cool bro, solid contribution as always

Look, it was a mistake to reply in the first place. It's a topic that's run it's course on here and is just boring now.

You can still go for your life, if you like.

 

[LoBu]

Wrong

One very experienced guy from Richmond who was hired almost 3 years ago and then another Richmond fella , you might have heard of him as he had a bit to do with 2017 granny

I respect your knowledge of the young kids coming through, but I'm talking about strategy to list management.

Your comment suggests that the improvement is due to a couple of Richmond scouts is not adding anything to the conversation, except to suggest the team has improved under Olgivie and Reid.

This is moving from my argument of significantly improved list management, including drafting since 2020, to who is responsible for this shift, which is ok if we can first recognise that a significant shift has taken place leading to a massive improvement.

I am saying that the pick 4 in this year's draft is not Hamish's decision alone, but rather its a much broader strategy driving the decision making of the committee informed by our scouts.

It is exciting that Silvers has highlighted the intent to further fund scouting in future, leading to an even more informed decision making process in subsequent years, not doubt anticipating less first round picks the next 3 years.

 

[George Kramer]

Rubbish, the whole strategy changes under a new coach. The list management committee has changed too, giving Ogilvie clear direction.

Nicks loves highly skilled players, and wants speed. He has also demanded we trade more, including our first round picks where we can.

Unfortunately Nicks inherited a team of triers, and he has spent 5 years turning it into a highly skilled team.

To think the recruitment team work autonomous to the coach and head of football, year in year out, is the real nonsense.

So your contention is Pyke wanted triers and not skilled players?

Nicks demanded we trade more, really? Whats the number of traded players under Pyke to Nicks? Got proof that this was a Nicks directive and not list management directive and part of the rebuild strategy?

How many of these triers that Nicks unfortunately inherited as you say, how many of them earnt a contract extension under Nicks watch? I’d say a few.

Given we haven’t played finals under Nicks, has Ogilvie had more quality to picks to work with? Given we rarely use our rookie picks these days except to recycle players and we’ve passed on late picks, perhaps our recruiting has improved given our better picks.

Facts are you’re clutching and have no idea at all if Nicks is behind our improved drafting.

 

[Captain Furious]

Look, it was a mistake to reply in the first place. It's a topic that's run it's course on here and is just boring now.

You can still go for your life, if you like.

Don’t drink and post champ, you’re talking about a different thing to the topic you think you’re replying too.

 

[LoBu]

So your contention is Pyke wanted triers and not skilled players?

Nicks demanded we trade more, really? Whats the number of traded players under Pyke to Nicks? Got proof that this was a Nicks directive and not list management directive and part of the rebuild strategy?

How many of these triers that Nicks unfortunately inherited as you say, how many of them earnt a contract extension under Nicks watch? I’d say a few.

Given we haven’t played finals under Nicks, has Ogilvie had more quality to picks to work with? Given we rarely use our rookie picks these days except to recycle players and we’ve passed on late picks, perhaps our recruiting has improved given our better picks.

Facts are you’re clutching and have no idea at all if Nicks is behind our improved drafting.

Not Nicks, Nicks era.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I respect your knowledge of the young kids coming through, but I'm talking about strategy to list management.

Your comment suggests that the improvement is due to a couple of Richmond scouts is not adding anything to the conversation, except to suggest the team has improved under Olgivie and Reid.

This is moving from my argument of significantly improved list management, including drafting since 2020, to who is responsible for this shift, which is ok if we can first recognise that a significant shift has taken place leading to a massive improvement.

I am saying that the pick 4 in this year's draft is not Hamish's decision alone, but rather its a much broader strategy driving the decision making of the committee informed by our scouts.

It is exciting that Silvers has highlighted the intent to further fund scouting in future, leading to an even more informed decision making process in subsequent years, not doubt anticipating less first round picks the next 3 years.

I think we are kind of talking about the same thing

 

[119others]

No wonder we are trying to get to 2 if possible

Mainly to prevent Richmond taking another mid there

Need Dees to pay Tauru another visit over the next couple of days and ensure the media highlights it.

Then it’s potentially too much risk for Kamgas to bear to slide to 6.

This action helps Dees (assuming they want a mid) and us

 

[George Kramer]

Not Nicks, Nicks era.

You’ve just been arguing Nicks loves skilled players and he has spent 5 years turning it into a highly skilled team after he inherited a bunch of triers.

This is only one of your comments, you’ve clearly been referring to Nicks input on our improved drafting.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

No wonder we are trying to get to 2 if possible

Mainly to prevent Richmond taking another mid there

IF RICH trade #6 and #18 for pick #2 ....they deserve to spend eternity in Hades

They've deliberately bottomed out ....got rid of great players ...to consolidate two first round picks in a great draft, when RICH need as many Draftees as possible, is insane

If it weren't so even in the Top 10 ...then perhaps, but that's not the case

Give up Travalia to get FOS ....and give away #18 for the privelege