Autopsy 2024 AFL Season: Rnd 21 Saints v Lions

[Gadzorks]

Your guys looked defeated from the first ball up. I wondered if there was a bunch of players with the flu or something, just didn't seem to have any energy or umph (technical term).

BTW our decade as cellar dwellers didn't end because of father sons selections, and if we were still at the bottom it wouldn't end now because of father sons.

It ended because elite players wanted to trade in, because of fagan.

Not sure that any equalization policy can be applied that overrides the importance of attracting elite players.

 

[hayes]

That loss probably wasn’t the worst thing. There were a lot of people getting a bit ahead of themselves after the last few weeks, nice to get a little reminder of how far off we really are. A contested ball smashing like that reinforces the work we need to do in the middle.

I’d be pulling Battle’s offer before he accepts it to make sure we get a pick after ours because like I keep saying if anyone thinks we can compete with this midfield is delusional. That game will be like the GWS final from last year, it will shape what we do in the off-season. If it doesn’t then god help us.

 

[Saintbloke]

The whole mid field was asked to play a different way in an attempt to nullify the Brisbane mids.

Maybe the coaches were asking too much of the players.

Yep..the coach got it wrong..too defensive from the first bounce, and watching the opponent and not the ball- when we resort to this we lose. Lions went all out attack from the first bounce and it's what we should have done- sadly there is a bit too much defensive mindset and it hits you on the scoreboard.

 

[MordySaint]

That loss probably wasn’t the worst thing. There were a lot of people getting a bit ahead of themselves after the last few weeks, nice to get a little reminder of how far off we really are. A contested ball smashing like that reinforces the work we need to do in the middle.

I’d be pulling Battle’s offer before he accepts it to make sure we get a pick after ours because like I keep saying if anyone thinks we can compete with this midfield is delusional. That game will be like the GWS final from last year, it will shape what we do in the off-season. If it doesn’t then god help us.

Been down this road a few times, trading decent players for a roll of the dice.

 

[Saints TV]

 

[Miha]

Your guys looked defeated from the first ball up. I wondered if there was a bunch of players with the flu or something, just didn't seem to have any energy or umph (technical term).

BTW our decade as cellar dwellers didn't end because of father sons selections, and if we were still at the bottom it wouldn't end now because of father sons.

It ended because elite players wanted to trade in, because of fagan.

Not sure that any equalization policy can be applied that overrides the importance of attracting elite players.

Is a flag the only pass mark for Fagan this year?

 

[Gadzorks]

Is a flag the only pass mark for Fagan this year?

I think it's an expectation but don't think they will replace fagan this year. He has done wonders with the injuries we have had and the newbies. They and the team have been astonishingly good and nothing this year justifies sacking him, even if we don't make the GF.

We bought on Stevie Dew as a one day a week assistant coach a couple of months ago. He has been in the box on game so either he is donating time or we've increased the hours.

Haven't lost since he joined. I really rate him - gold coasts problems were far more than the coach.

My expectation is that Dew will be a full time assistant under fagan next year, and that opens a pathway to senior coaching in a year or few. No knowledge but I'd be surprised if fagan is considering retirement. Expect it will be tap on the shoulder territory eventually.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Been down this road a few times, trading decent players for a roll of the dice.

we didn't trade decent players before though.

We let stars in Dal Santo and Goddard go for absolutely shit return. Then a young up and coming (eventual 250 game) ruck in McEvoy for what ended up being Shane Savage & Luke Dunstan.
Couple that with the fact we gutted or lost a bunch of other senior experience in Kosi, Blake, Milne, Ray, Gwilt, Dawson, Hayes in the span of 2 years.

The difference now is that the only 2 senior players with draft currency that we can probably afford to lose are Battle & Steele.
Crouch looks gone so maybe we hang onto Ross for experience and depth.

We still have senior experience in Wilkie, Marshall, Membrey, Sincs, Hill, Wood, Howard, Butler, Webster to help drive the next core. And the added benefit of Owens, Henry, King, NWM, Windhager, Pou, Wilson already setting standards of their own and outperforming our younger core of the previous generation in Billings, Dunstan, Acres, McCartin, Gresham, Lonie, Long.

We need to add as much young quality NOW to support the likes of NWM, King, Pou, Wilson etc when they hit their prime of 24-28. Similar to what North have done with getting Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher etc to help support LDU, Larkey & Simpkin (who are hitting their prime now).

 

[SG34]

Your guys looked defeated from the first ball up. I wondered if there was a bunch of players with the flu or something, just didn't seem to have any energy or umph (technical term).
..

100%
Thought the same.
I’ll go you one more.
The body language of Marshall and other players as they trudged to their mark was off before the bounce.

Were they overwhelmed?

In hindsight, Seb Ross would have helped mindset steady.

 

[MordySaint]

we didn't trade decent players before though.

We let stars in Dal Santo and Goddard go for absolutely shit return. Then a young up and coming (eventual 250 game) ruck in McEvoy for what ended up being Shane Savage & Luke Dunstan.
Couple that with the fact we gutted or lost a bunch of other senior experience in Kosi, Blake, Milne, Ray, Gwilt, Dawson, Hayes in the span of 2 years.

The difference now is that the only 2 senior players with draft currency that we can probably afford to lose are Battle & Steele.
Crouch looks gone so maybe we hang onto Ross for experience and depth.

We still have senior experience in Wilkie, Marshall, Membrey, Sincs, Hill, Wood, Howard, Butler, Webster to help drive the next core. And the added benefit of Owens, Henry, King, NWM, Windhager, Pou, Wilson already setting standards of their own and outperforming our younger core of the previous generation in Billings, Dunstan, Acres, McCartin, Gresham, Lonie, Long.

We need to add as much young quality NOW to support the likes of NWM, King, Pou, Wilson etc when they hit their prime of 24-28. Similar to what North have done with getting Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher etc to help support LDU, Larkey & Simpkin (who are hitting their prime now).

Good clubs don't trade out their good players.

Fact is we have and you detailed examples in Dal Santo, Goddard and McEvoy. This set any leadership we had in our club back 10 years and we are still feeling it now.

Not sure whether its a good comparison to North Melbourne, they have been hovering on the bottom for a long time and I wouldn't bet on finals for them any time soon. I would hate us to do a North.

If you trade out our leader in Steele and an experienced player in Battle, what type of example does that set for the young players?

If these recruiters are worth the money we pay them, then they should be able to find midfielders without plundering our list.

 

[Klaatu]

Good clubs don't trade out their good players.

Fact is we have and you detailed examples in Dal Santo, Goddard and McEvoy. This set any leadership we had in our club back 10 years and we are still feeling it now.

Not sure whether its a good comparison to North Melbourne, they have been hovering on the bottom for a long time and I wouldn't bet on finals for them any time soon. I would hate us to do a North.

If you trade out our leader in Steele and an experienced player in Battle, what type of example does that set for the young players?

If these recruiters are worth the money we pay them, then they should be able to find midfielders without plundering our list.

I'm sure Dal Santo & Goddard were F/A, McEvoy yes was traded.

 

[MordySaint]

I'm sure Dal Santo & Goddard were F/A, McEvoy yes was traded.

I'd like to see the club recruiters pull off a heist like the Bulldogs did with Treloar or Sydney did with Grundy.

I'll give them time as they are a new unit and deserve a chance.

 

[SG34]

Good clubs don't trade out their good players.

Fact is we have and you detailed examples in Dal Santo, Goddard and McEvoy. This set any leadership we had in our club back 10 years and we are still feeling it now.

Not sure whether its a good comparison to North Melbourne, they have been hovering on the bottom for a long time and I wouldn't bet on finals for them any time soon. I would hate us to do a North.

If you trade out our leader in Steele and an experienced player in Battle, what type of example does that set for the young players?

If these recruiters are worth the money we pay them, then they should be able to find midfielders without plundering our list.

According to the Saints podcast Brisbanes best mids, including Lachie Neale were trades

 

[MordySaint]

According to the Saints podcast Brisbanes best mids, including Lachie Neale were trades

They were traded into the club, not out of the club

I'm all for trading in great mids.

 

[Gadzorks]

According to the Saints podcast Brisbanes best mids, including Lachie Neale were trades

Yep. Lachie, Charlie Cameron, dunkley, Joe, and ah chee are all A grade players who traded in that played on Sunday. And i still include hodge (had incredible impact that's still working is magic through harris and Lester in the backline).

We were all shocked when Charlie requested a trade to us, then neale. Was like the best ever Christmas ×100 that happen multiple times.

Mind you, before that we were the afl feeder club for a decade and more. Who can forget the go home five, who didn't go home just wanted out. The shame years that fagan and co fixed.

 

[The Jack]

Yep. Lachie, Charlie Cameron, dunkley, Joe, and ah chee are all A grade players who traded in that played on Sunday. And i still include hodge (had incredible impact that's still working is magic through harris and Lester in the backline).

We were all shocked when Charlie requested a trade to us, then neale. Was like the best ever Christmas ×100 that happen multiple times.

Mind you, before that we were the afl feeder club for a decade and more. Who can forget the go home five, who didn't go home just wanted out. The shame years that fagan and co fixed.

Ah Chee A grade.

 

[The Jack]

Duds can look pretty good in a really good side. There are mountains of premiership players that fit that bill.

 

[Gadzorks]

Ah Chee A grade.

Lol. Well, lions best 22 this year. I call that A grade now (but I don't remember the first 6 weeks of the season. Just didn't happen).

I'm off back to my own board. Thanks for the chat, and good luck this weekend.

 

[hayes]

Been down this road a few times, trading decent players for a roll of the dice.

The draft is always a gamble but it’s our only way out. Battle is a nice player but he isn’t a needle mover, whether he’s in the team long term or not will have no effect on how far we go.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

Glad Phillipou kept his form line going, especially given what he was facing in the midfield.

Easily could have slunk back to an 8 disposal game and shot his confidence but he battled on through the game.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I wasn't gonna comment, but there's so much stupid shit being posted after this loss I'm feeling like l need to.
For the previous 3 years our midfield has consisted of Steele, Crouch and Ross, and for the whole time people are saying it needs better players. Clark and Jones also play on the odd occasion they're not injured but neither are recognisedas much but place fillers.
Then came Windhager, and we brought in Dow for support. The likes of Henry and Byrnes have provided some spark this year too.
So of this rather inauspicious group, lets look at who played.

Crouch - our best mid - injured (season)
Steele
Ross - our 3rd best mid - cooked (career)
Pou
Windhager- (injured)
Clark - (injured)
Jones
Dow - sub (retuning from injury, 7 games played)
Henry - (injured)
Byrnes - (sick)

So starting with an already low base, we were missing 6 of the top10, and 3 of the top 5.

People need to get a grip. We had Steele, Pou, Stocker, Jones and Dow for a half.

 

[SG34]

In hindsight, Ross should have been picked IMo. Would have provided a consistent effort and standard, even his execution is slow and not sharp.

 

[gubby88]

In hindsight, Ross should have been picked IMo. Would have provided a consistent effort and standard, even his execution is slow and not sharp.

pretty hard to pick him when he's injured

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I wasn't gonna comment, but there's so much stupid shit being posted after this loss I'm feeling like l need to.
For the previous 3 years our midfield has consisted of Steele, Crouch and Ross, and for the whole time people are saying it needs better players. Clark and Jones also play on the odd occasion they're not injured but neither are recognisedas much but place fillers.
Then came Windhager, and we brought in Dow for support. The likes of Henry and Byrnes have provided some spark this year too.
So of this rather inauspicious group, lets look at who played.

Crouch - our best mid - injured (season)
Steele
Ross - our 3rd best mid - cooked (career)
Pou
Windhager- (injured)
Clark - (injured)
Jones
Dow - sub (retuning from injury, 7 games played)
Henry - (injured)
Byrnes - (sick)

So starting with an already low base, we were missing 6 of the top10, and 3 of the top 5.

People need to get a grip. We had Steele, Pou, Stocker, Jones and Dow for a half.

And Dow is looking like he's worth what we gave up for him and nothing more.

 

[Nutsngum]

And Dow is looking like he's worth what we gave up for him and nothing more.

He had no pre-season and has copped subsequent injuries since.