Autopsy 2024 AFL Season Round 17 vs Sydney Swans

[stfan]

Any Byrnes haters care to make the case to delist him after that performance? Some wonderful kicking in there as well.

It's fine to have players on your list who might not be in form enough all the time to warrant selection, but are good enough if their form warrants selection. Premiership sides are replete with them.

That was Byrnes best game in a long while. Especially in the overall quality of his game. Maybe even his best ever (I do not recall them all).

With Jones and Ross both quite possibly off at the end of this year, if he can back that up he should earn a new contract.

 

[MightySaint]

Its 55 metres from the centre square to the goal at Docklands, Schoey kicked it from 6 metres inside the centre square (on an angle) and still cleared the goal line.


What a first goal it might have been.



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What quarter / time was this?

 

[TheJackal]

As one of Pou's biggest advocates on here I'm still so happy for him after this game. I have to tell a story.

So during the week I took the kids down to our open training session. They were both super excited about getting signatures. The little guy, named Jack of course, was getting his Saints jumper signed by the players.

Everyone had gone inside, Pou was still out there practising as he does. There were probably 50 odd fans still waiting just for him. He goes to each one of them.

When he comes to my son, I said, mate this guy is going to be a superstar, get him to be a special signature on the back of your jumper and we can get #25 on your jumper. Mattaes obliges and goes on to sign the back, right at the bottom for some reason.

He was super excited. On his was back to the car his sister yells, hey Jack, you've got Pou on your bum. The 7 year old thinks it's hilarious, and that's how my boy found his favourite new player (sorry Max).

 

[gringo2011]

This is something that we have to be aware of. This was a great game with pretty much everyone playing well. But we're a bottom six team and need to go to the draft, nope get duped by a good performance which masks serious deficiencies.

We shouldn't be bottom 6. Injury and possibly career ending one to Crouch made life hard but that match showed a standard that we should be able to achieve. You always need to be adding talent to bridge gaps but there is no way we should be sitting below a lot of sides at the moment.

To me the inside mid brigade needs strengthening for both quality and quantity and we need back up small forwards who can play when Butler or Higgins go down.

We aren't top 4 but we should be sitting in somewhere between 6th and 12th range. A down year gives an opportunity to get hold of a couple of good kids but it shouldn't be an accepted standard.

We are a young side but that youth is a bonus because if you pick well you get quick improvement once the development gets put into them. Sydney have become a side in a similar range to us to flag favourites because of Grundy and rapid growth in Heeney, Gulden and the Chad. Less so from guys like McDonald.

 

[pebblesofsand]

What quarter / time was this?

3rd qtr about 3.30 to go. It was touched on the line but it was some sort of roost.

Would have tied the scores and brought the house down.

 

[Oh When the Saints]

Interesting that it was our best score generated from forward half pressure all year. Mobile forward line with effective small forwards. Previously when King was missing, so was Higgins and/or Butler and/or Henry. All three of the smalls fit and Sharman, Owens and Membrey staying on the move really helped.

 

[gringo2011]

Joey on first crack had this stat on our scoreing.
Scores from Defensive Half Intercepts: 1 in AFL
Scores from Forward Half Intercepts: 18 in AFL

Today we scored 47 points from Forward Half Intercepts. A high for the season.

A big part of being shit for a lot of the season was missing Butler and Snags for long periods. We have very little small forward depth. King is a static forward and guys like Caminiti try holding the ball aside 50 but it's not easy for a guy of that size.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

3rd qtr about 3.30 to go. It was touched on the line but it was some sort of roost.

Would tied the scores and brought the house down.

They actually paid another bullshit free to Sydney so Arie's shot didn't even get the chance to be reviewed.

 

[Big 0]

I am sure it's been mentioned but the development work Carroll has done with young Pou is remarkable. It was clear he was winning the hard ball but was only handpassing over kicking, reducing his impact. He also didn't know where to run to get the cheap ball.
Both have been worked on and he was instrumental in today's win.

Development is crucial to long term success.

On that point the look yesterday of the Steeles and Clarks releasing to Henry and Pou outside started to resemble that of a midfield that’s actually got some functionality. Pou looks especially special in space

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I reckon they were a lot softer kill coming back late and not really going at the time. For pure difficulty and quality this was one of our best wins an ages. Won playing the type of footy that is enjoyable to watch and played in a noble contested way.

I can't think of a better win we've had in recent history. That's a belief builder.

Watching it as a cynic.

At least we're giving it a crack.
Here we go , we played one good quarter.
And off they go, probably should mow the lawn.
Going to claw back a bit before we let them win.
Bloody hell , we're bringing it right up to them.
Shit...we're going to lose by a few points like we always do.
FAAAAARKKKKK.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Any Byrnes haters care to make the case to delist him after that performance? Some wonderful kicking in there as well.

It's fine to have players on your list who might not be in form enough all the time to warrant selection, but are good enough if their form warrants selection. Premiership sides are replete with them.

Totally agree he might not be the most naturally talented player, but he is a kid who tries his heart out at everything he does. Every club needs those heart and soul players and they generally go on to have long and sucessful careers.

There is no doubt yesterdays win will give the playing group a huge confidence lift. Hopefully it will be a defining moment for the club and they can rebound strongly next season. We still have list deficiencies but yesterday showed if the team play to their potential they are a better than average side.

 

[gringo2011]

If we got on a roll then we'd be fine - as long as we didn't let it affect our list management strategy.

IMO the problem with finishing 6th to 10th isn't that the picks are particularly bad, but that then the club thinks "oh we're close" and starts to top up. The teams that have done the best at continually contending without rebuilding don't do that, they just go to the draft every year, get talent in, and develop them consistently.

Regardless of whether we win a few more games, we still need to draft and not switch into trading mode. Honestly I don't think we should ever be in trading mode.

That is insane. Even when you're down you should look at trading. Henry is probably the best 2nd round pick we've used in years. The trick is not to completely ignore any one area. When we ****ed up drafting we didn't replace our recruiter. We stopped drafting. That's insane. You need a balance.

We already have a very decent and large young group. If you keep going younger and younger you get North. We were chasing high profile glamour trades before when we should have been much more big picture.

This is exactly the time to start to taper and hone the list. Less numbers of draftees but more cherry picked and try to condense picks upwards. Try to back fill holes with a bit of depth through trades and FAs etc and keep adding kids for the future.

Collingwood didn't bottom out again, they topped up with very sensible low cost but high upside trades while still adding kids from the draft.

With academy and FS taken out you can't never catch up on drafting alone. We probably have 3 to 4 years before a bulk of the best players are gone and will be trying to top up under them still if we don't go hard now.

I think we should expect finals next year and a challenge in 2026 or we might be starting from bottom 4 again by 2027 to 2029.

 

[gringo2011]

What was different against the Swans?


Our ball use has been improving. IMO a lot of the reason for us scoring less in many games this year was not our gameplan, but rather too many players were missing targets by hand and foot and/or just trying to give it toa dumb option, or even worse just blind disposal.

Our disposal was certainly much improved against the Swans.

The other big factor was the ball did not waltz out of our forward line as easily as it has in many games.
1/ Because we were not just simply kicking it to defenders as much as we often have.
2/ And two our forward half pressure was much better. I think in part as we had a much more agile forward line than we have often played this year, and in part as the players were just a lot hungrier and more switched on this game.

One of the points made last night is that St Kilda are ranked 1st for scores from the back half, but a woeful last for scores from the front half.

Last night our scoring from the front half was good.

Our midfield unit was very good last night. In particular they were effective.
Congrats to Pou coming back much improved. But also Steele probably played his best game for the year. And Sincs also played one of his best midfield game ever against quality opponents. Henry was the igniter as a link man. The support cast all chipped in as well.

Howard back into the backline playing one of his best every games. This also freed up Wilkie and Battle. our backline was humming last night. It has in the main been excellent this season, but last night in was really onsong. And that was withtou Sincs!!!



All of the above translated into better ball movement AND also the opposition not getting as much easy ball movement to set up easy goals such as we have often seen in games this season.

Phillipou was the man yesterday. Played the role we've been missing since Crouch went down. Steele looked free of burden with him taking control too. Hunter Clark and Windy before injury both played okay games but it was really Steele and Pou doing the bulk work. Reminded me of when Cripps looked broken by playing a lone hand for Carlton until they grabbed him a support cast.

Sinclair is still somehow underrated outside St Kilda, he's an elite level player. Reminds me of Rory Laird where no-one noticed him for years and he still doesn't get credit for his game. He must average close to 30 quality possessions a week over his whole career but a lot still don't know who he is.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Though unfortunately Nigel Austin is even wealthier than Bassat is.

Indeed, and that rich bastard is getting even richer whilst destroying Geelong with his property acquisitions

Then again he could always sell up to Bassat and put his energies into something different.

 

[sauce_head]

I reckon they were a lot softer kill coming back late and not really going at the time. For pure difficulty and quality this was one of our best wins an ages. Won playing the type of footy that is enjoyable to watch and played in a noble contested way.

I can't think of a better win we've had in recent history. That's a belief builder.

Yep I thoroughly enjoyed it as well!

 

[gringo2011]

Totally agree he might not be the most naturally talented player, but he is a kid who tries his heart out at everything he does. Every club needs those heart and soul players and they generally go on to have long and sucessful careers.

There is no doubt yesterdays win will give the playing group a huge confidence lift. Hopefully it will be a defining moment for the club and they can rebound strongly next season. We still have list deficiencies but yesterday showed if the team play to their potential they are a better than average side.

The play where he went head-on to smash into two Sydney forwards and create a spill that would have probably lead to a score was real heart and soul stuff. Like Dougal running into the fence it was a real team lifter. Membrey had a couple too.

 

[stfan]

IMO the problem with finishing 6th to 10th isn't that the picks are particularly bad, but that then the club thinks "oh we're close" and starts to top up. The teams that have done the best at continually contending without rebuilding don't do that, they just go to the draft every year, get talent in, and develop them consistently.

What team is it that that continually contends only through the draft?

Every team trades in. Even North has brought players in.

Pies traded in
Cats traded in
Hawks traded in. More youth now but they are still trading in players.
Dees brought in some key components

Regardless of whether we win a few more games, we still need to draft and not switch into trading mode. Honestly I don't think we should ever be in trading mode.

It is not an either/or. You need to do both.

The problem with St Kilda was that for many years we were drafting poorly AND trading in poorly. We did neither well

Recently we seem to be much improved in both aspects.

 

[sauce_head]

They actually paid another bullshit free to Sydney so Arie's shot didn't even get the chance to be reviewed.

Ah, that explains why he was not credited with a point…

 

[SteeleSaints]

That is insane. Even when you're down you should look at trading. Henry is probably the best 2nd round pick we've used in years. The trick is not to completely ignore any one area. When we ****ed up drafting we didn't replace our recruiter. We stopped drafting. That's insane. You need a balance.

We already have a very decent and large young group. If you keep going younger and younger you get North. We were chasing high profile glamour trades before when we should have been much more big picture.

This is exactly the time to start to taper and hone the list. Less numbers of draftees but more cherry picked and try to condense picks upwards. Try to back fill holes with a bit of depth through trades and FAs etc and keep adding kids for the future.

Collingwood didn't bottom out again, they topped up with very sensible low cost but high upside trades while still adding kids from the draft.

With academy and FS taken out you can't never catch up on drafting alone. We probably have 3 to 4 years before a bulk of the best players are gone and will be trying to top up under them still if we don't go hard now.

I think we should expect finals next year and a challenge in 2026 or we might be starting from bottom 4 again by 2027 to 2029.

This discussion should be in the trade thread.

But I agree with Bergholt on this one, there is a balance between drafting and trading to fill list gaps. We all know the long term affects on the list that trading out high draft picks and poor recruiting has caused. I dont think Bergholt is suggesting going all out at the draft and not looking to trade, rather than drafting a number a good kids each year and hopefully nailing those selections.

The better teams draft well, develop and release players to trade most years, thats mostly how they have been able to remain competitive for so long eg Sydney, Geelong, Collingwood. They have also had the benefit of NGA and father son players but smart clubs continue to do things well for decades, thats how they win flags.

We are not going to get a player like Henry for a 2nd round pick every year, sometimes its a matter of balancing the quality of the draft with whats available trade wise. Basically the list build policy should be fluid depending on all of the above. Just on Henry perhaps now you are prepared to give Gubby and SOS the kudos of identifying and getting this kid across, it was a master stroke but we need more!

 

[SteeleSaints]

The play where he went head-on to smash into two Sydney forwards and create a spill that would have probably lead to a score was real heart and soul stuff. Like Dougal running into the fence it was a real team lifter. Membrey had a couple too.

Totally agree. We have lapsed into trade/list talk but I think some were a bit early to write off Membrey at the end of this season. You dont lose your ability over night and we saw yesterday he is still working just as hard. I think Members has been as much a victim of the dysfunctional forward line (King centric) and poor delivery as any one. Sometimes factors out of their control lead to a players poor form and IMO that was Members. The kids and club need players like Tim around for as long as physically possible.

 

[CaptainRisky]

When someone starts off a post saying Haters , they are not worth responding too as no one hates any of our players , some we rate better than others for football ability so I'm not sure where the Hate crap comes from .
Yes I am not Ryan's biggest fan as a player but he was a lot better on the weekend and if he can keep playing at that level he deserves a game , his kicking is still a bit iffy but if he doesn't bite off too much he should continue to get games.
As a side note when the lesser players in the team play well as it makes a massive difference when your players in the 18 -22 picked contribute as Ryan's best two games for the year have been against Collingwood and the Swan's which we won both.
When the last 4 or 5 picked in the team are contributing that's when your a good chance of winning instead of blokes getting 10 - 12 touches

Captain Risky

 

[gringo2011]

What team is it that that continually contends only through the draft?

Every team trades in. Even North has brough players in.

Pies traded in
Cats traded in
Hawks traded in. More youth now but they are still trading in players.
Dees brought in some key components




It is not an either/or. You need to do both.

The problem with St Kilda was that for many years we were drafting poorly AND trading in poorly. We did neither well

Recently we seem to be much improved in both aspects.

Pies have something like 15 players that started at another club or through VFL or state leagues. They kept their best core and added the missing pieces around them on the cheap. Their Salary cap squeeze was a blessing in disguise. They were forced to adapt to taking mature talent on the cheap so got creative.

 

[gringo2011]

Totally agree. We have lapsed into trade/list talk but I think some were a bit early to write off Membrey at the end of this season. You dont lose your ability over night and we saw yesterday he is still working just as hard. I think Members has been as much a victim of the dysfunctional forward line (King centric) and poor delivery as any one. Sometimes factors out of their control lead to a players poor form and IMO that was Members. The kids and club need players like Tim around for as long as physically possible.

I think King will be a gun longer term but that forward line looked really good yesterday with a real range of sizes and types.

Membrey and Sharman both play tall but are very mobile. Butler has the shut down game, Snags was everywhere and looked good both ways as well as scoring freely. Guys like Henry, Wood and Marshall able to move into the forward 50 and add chaos. Owens a big mobile contested force. It had really nice balance.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

What quarter / time was this?

They didn't even have a goal review. I'm ****en sure it wasn't touched.

 

[CursingFijian]

The rumour is that the turnaround in the teams fortunes has been largely due to the input of the trainee receptionist, who is applying a hard tag on Ross the Floss. The trainee receptionist has been reading the match day thread and passing on valuable instructions on which levers to pull, and whose buttons to push.

Whenever Ross objects, the receptionist shows him a collage of posts from the Man On A Plank thread.

Good stuff BF we did it! He's finally being held accountable.