List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Just Kreuzing]

Yep not to mention the future first round pick swap the year before with Adelaide to get us Stocker that ended up costing us Serong or Young.

Yep and I did mention it, just not as specifically as you did

 

[Just Kreuzing]

He didn't bring back Eddie if what was said at the time was correct. This was done by Liddle, wasn't it? Part of the reason why Silvagni supposedly went off his head.

Thought the dispute around Betts was more about how much each thought he was worth, think both were fine with his return but were apart on the cost.

 

[manang magoos]

I believe the bank refunded it. May have been NAB.

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A bank refunding all of someone’s money I’m calling BS on that

 

[manang magoos]

And before anyone says wait for Motlop and Martin... Yeah they are half decent but they are still miles off other teams quality. Our entries inside will forever main hogwash as long as we have the smalls we have.

No leading, just standing in space getting in the way of Harry and Charlie... It's like they're part of the oppositions zone defense

Not to mention I trust Newman to deliver the ball inside 50 more than I trust the players who get paid specifically to do that. No idea how we just signed Durdin on for another 2 years with him serving up what he does on a weekly basis.

Owies atleast bobs up for the odd goal but the rest of his game is woeful...

Please please please Austin, find us some other options!!!

Papley oh wait

 

[Blueyourmyboy!!]

Imo we need to clear some cap space and reshape our list for some balance.

Young
Williams
Owies
Fantasia
Cuningham
Martin
Marchbank

All names I'd look at, not that many other than Williams would be on a lot. Obviously not all at once but each and every one should be in the firing line for mine.

If we could get rid of them and bring in players with durability and marginal upgrades in ability/skillsets we'd be 100x better off.

Players like Ainsworth, Stengle, Hayward etc aren't superstars but at the bare minimum they provide is cohesion through durability. You get them into your 22 and we don't have to worry about these massive lulls where half our list is injured and we're forced to expose depth that's not ready.

Agree. All injury prone players need to be gone at years end.
Cunningham -delist
Marchbank-delist
Martin-delist
S.Durdin-delist
Williams - trade out & pay part of his salary or Even salary dump him to get him off the books.

Go hard for zach Guthrie & will Hayward both FA who fill massive holes.

 

[macky99]

100% Arrow, since Friday night there’s been some massive overreaction. Cull the list (not minor changes, but cull - what? Get rid of Charlie, Harry, weiters and Cripps along with the rest of the list?), club has appointed failed coaches, posters using selective facts, etc.

We’ve lost 3 games this year by a total of less than 4 goals. Lost to reigning premiers by one goal, kicked ourselves out of it against the Cats but it was still close. Have beaten gws. Think of where we were at round 15 last year to now. We’ve Come a long, long way. Club is clearly doing something right. We almost played off in the grand final last year.

Not saying we don’t need changes, but don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Do we need to defend better? Yes, Voss has said that. Do we need more from our bottom 6 players?Yes, but back the coaches in to either improve those players or replace them. Our injury list is a problem, which the club is looking at - Cooke spoke about it last week.

There’s no overnight fixes in football, things take time. Change for the sack of change means nothing, could send us backwards. Needs to be strategic change. We don’t play in isolation from other clubs, it’s a competition and different strategies take time to work, but some expect immediate fixes as if 17 other clubs don’t exist - the wrong change can quickly send us back very quickly because other clubs will exploit it.

One thing I’d like to see is us getting more proactive at trade / draft period, like the top clubs continually do. Need to get some good talls and some mids now to develop for the future.

Blues have a passionate fanbase which is great, but some are pretty quick to point the finger. We’re doing very well, but yes we need to also get better. But we’ve come a long way so back the players / club in.



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l have not seen anything on here re getting rid of our tier 1 players.

Pretty much everyone knows Weitering & Cripps & Curnow & Mckay & Walsh are the cornerstone of any premiership challenge in the next three years.

However as Voss said after the Geelong loss, doesn't mean we should be accepting of small losses, we should be past that now.

What was disappointing is that Collingwood basically outworked us, even the little things not manning up Pendelbury in the last quarter & not blocking Daicos at the final stoppage, not good enough.

lt has become clear with Doc & Jsos going we can not longer afford to carry so many injury riddled players on the list, winning a premiership from outside top 4 is unlikely.

We need more midfield speed & a quality small forward if we are going to be a premiership contender, to find them may mean some decisions at year end.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

And before anyone says wait for Motlop and Martin... Yeah they are half decent but they are still miles off other teams quality. Our entries inside will forever main hogwash as long as we have the smalls we have.

No leading, just standing in space getting in the way of Harry and Charlie... It's like they're part of the oppositions zone defense

Not to mention I trust Newman to deliver the ball inside 50 more than I trust the players who get paid specifically to do that. No idea how we just signed Durdin on for another 2 years with him serving up what he does on a weekly basis.

Owies atleast bobs up for the odd goal but the rest of his game is woeful...

Please please please Austin, find us some other options!!!

And I'm sure Austin is working hard to find us other options....as are 17 other list managers in the AFL.

I don't care if they're small ot tall, but we need to find creative forwards who know where the big posts are. We brought Moir in for that exact reason, and the 'rumour' was that we were going to select either him or Collard depending on who was still available. And I assume that Monahan has also been earmarked for a similar forward role, although he's clearly a project player.

I'm still a little baffled with some of our draft selections over the past few years, but I also have zero doubt that Vossy played a fairly major role in our list strategy. Austin just had to try and find the best available according to those requirements.

The injuries to JSOS and Martin have left a huge hole in our forward structure, Moir right now looks like a slow burn, and Monahan ever slower. But I 100% agree that it's an area we need to address in the short term. I'd love us to take a 'risk' and select someone like a Jack Hutchison in the MSD.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Going after mids and talls now with a look towards the future and not addressing our holes would be disastrous. We are in our window and have a couple of the most glaring holes across the competition.

It must be addressed this off season. Our small forwards are the worst in the league.

Can't we do a bit of both? It's not as if Tassie aren't going to hog the draft for a number of years, or anything.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

And I'm sure Austin is working hard to find us other options....as are 17 other list managers in the AFL.

I don't care if they're small ot tall, but we need to find creative forwards who know where the big posts are. We brought Moir in for that exact reason, and the 'rumour' was that we were going to select either him or Collard depending on who was still available. And I assume that Monahan has also been earmarked for a similar forward role, although he's clearly a project player.

I'm still a little baffled with some of our draft selections over the past few years, but I also have zero doubt that Vossy played a fairly major role in our list strategy. Austin just had to try and find the best available according to those requirements.

The injuries to JSOS and Martin have left a huge hole in our forward structure, Moir right now looks like a slow burn, and Monahan ever slower. But I 100% agree that it's an area we need to address in the short term. I'd love us to take a 'risk' and select someone like a Jack Hutchison in the MSD.

Yes, I think we've been drafting 'coachable' types and maybe we've overestimated their ability to step up to AFL level or to offer us much of a difference; whereas Harry Lemmey is a project KPP when other project players with more upside had already been taken. I also don't care if they are small or tall but we really haven't added enough players who's natural instict is to seek out the goal posts, even if that's in terms of goal assists.

A lack of attacking options has been an issue for years but I don't rest that on the shoulders of our 'small forwards'.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Funny thing is they went for Papley in 2019 and couldn’t get him over the line. They knew it was a weakness.

I have no doubt there were genuine concerns over Cripps body and whether he would even stay at the club leading to the recruitment of Kemp. He was rated a top 5 talent and was considered a steal at the time. Still will be a very good player if we stick by him. But gee it’s tough watching all of these gun smalls kicking loads of goals for other clubs whilst we struggle to find one who will even get us 30 in a season.

I follow the draft pretty closely and both Pickett and Weightman were slight reaches at the time (particularly Pickett). Dees and Dogs both went needs over best available which is unusual at that point in the draft but and has worked really well for them.

Bigger question mark for us is Kemp over Flanders. There was a clear top 9 (plus Green and Henry who were linked to academies) that year and we had pick 9. The word was we liked Young, Stephens and Serong in that order. When Sydney unexpectedly picked Stephens ahead of Flanders it meant we missed out on all 3 and Flanders was the one that got through.

We clearly didn't rate him so traded the pick for 2 later 1sts (Kemp and Philp).I believe Kemp was next on our list anyway so we got our man plus the bonus pick. In hindsight though we probably should have taken Flanders.

 

[Michael Jezz]

From memory Lemmey and Moir had the same issues in their draft year and is why they slipped.

If the mental application, desire and intensity is missing in Lemmey, make the call to delist early. He will not develop without aggression

 

[Michael Jezz]

SOS just loved stockpiling 1st round picks rather than targeting specific needs imo....did he honestly think that Stocker was in the top half dozen in the 2018 draft.

He brings Eddie back to the club in 2020 afer missing out on Papley in the trade period, highlighting the need for a small forward - but chooses to split the pick in the 2019 draft to bring in a tall utility and a midfielder, when players like Pickett and Weightman were there for the picking? By memory, we even had Dan Butler tour the facility but SOS chose not to pursue for whatever reason. Absolutely baffling list management.

At least Austin has tried to rectify it by trading in Fogarty in the 2020 trade period, and selecting Durdin and Motlop with our first selections in the 2020 and 2021 drafts - even though we didn't have high picks to play with, and both were 2nd round selections at pick #37 and #27 respectively.

SoS has been gone 4 drafts. Focus on Austin and what he has to do.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If we traded/delisted the following and we had a hypothetical 2.5 million of cap space to try and balance our list, who would you be targeting to fill our list holes?

Young - 400k
Williams - 850k
Martin - 400k
Cuningham - 200k
Kennedy - 500k
Fantasia - 200k

 

[GT619]

If we traded/delisted the following and we had a hypothetical 2.5 million of cap space to try and balance our list, who would you be targeting to fill our list holes?

Young - 400k
Williams - 850k
Martin - 400k
Cuningham - 200k
Kennedy - 500k
Fantasia - 200k

we need to do something too balance it out

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

If we traded/delisted the following and we had a hypothetical 2.5 million of cap space to try and balance our list, who would you be targeting to fill our list holes?

Young - 400k
Williams - 850k
Martin - 400k
Cuningham - 200k
Kennedy - 500k
Fantasia - 200k

The only problem is the players you’ve listed have zero or negative trade value so they could only be replaced by free agents or very late draft picks.

Young I doubt we could find a club to trade with and if we did would be a token pick 60+.
Martin, Cuningham and Kennedy I doubt we get a pick below 40 for so they are more valuable keeping on reduced money.

Fantasia is on a nothing contract we’ve tried it and it hasn’t worked so far hopefully he can get his fitness level up and start contributing.

With Williams the only way we could get rid of that albatross of a contract would be getting super creative and attaching a future first round pick with him or the equivalent and hope a team with salary cap space will take him off our hands I can’t see that happening knowing how conservative we tend to be at the trade table.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The only problem is the players you’ve listed have zero or negative trade value so they could only be replaced by free agents or very late draft picks.

Young I doubt we could find a club to trade with and if we did would be a token pick 60+.
Martin, Cuningham and Kennedy I doubt we get a pick below 40 for so they are more valuable keeping on reduced money.

Fantasia is on a nothing contract we’ve tried it and it hasn’t worked so far hopefully he can get his fitness level up and start contributing.

With Williams the only way we could get rid of that albatross of a contract would be getting super creative and attaching a future first round pick with him or the equivalent and hope a team with salary cap space will take him off our hands I can’t see that happening knowing how conservative we tend to be at the trade table.

Totally agree that most of them are worth stuff all. Kennedy has some value and I wouldn't trade him if we didn't already have some options lined up. He's incredible depth and way too good to play VFL but is still our 5th option on ball unfortunately.

The main thing is freeing up cap space to bring in free agents and maybe 1-2 low cost trades of the Acres/Hewett variety.

My opinion is we simply cannot carry the injury prone players any longer regardless of what happens this year. They've proven their bodies can't be relied on over a season time and time again.

 

[gbatman]

The small forward issues are mostly injury related. I can't help but think that our fringe small forwards aren't producing because of coaching and development? I wonder whether this could be improved. Would be great to have Betts back at Carlton as a specialise coach. Geelong did it and won the flag so can't hurt.

Talking about delisings. Mirkov, Cincotta, Akuei, Marchbank, Cuningham, Martin, Matt Carroll and Sam Durdin

38

Sam Durdin

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

are all under a bit of pressure to produce. I'm surprised to see Lemmy is contracted but feel if he doesn't show more our patience may well be up.

Think we need a clean out of ruckmen, try and replace the two in the reserves with one who can play AFL. A good tall utility or an athletic CHB with Marchbank continually failing could be on the cards. Medium forwards. Leading, marking quick players with good skills.

Ideally we take a player with our first pick and the next two are likely to be the Camporeale boys. Then we need to look at trading out some future picks to bring in players from other clubs.

I think we have a list good enough to challenge but we can't get it on the park. I don't know that I would be cutting players like Martin, Marchbank and Cuningham. But I would be trying to bring in players to replace them while offering them a base contract. It's not like they will leave and go to another club.

Good players are hard to get. It's frustrating when you have a good team and can't get it out there.

 

[JJBagger]

we need to do something too balance it out

The cap increases next year, and we’ve apparently planned around it to keep cap space available

 

[Opium]

Would love to target Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

. Elite user and great overlap runner.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

Totally agree that most of them are worth stuff all. Kennedy has some value and I wouldn't trade him if we didn't already have some options lined up. He's incredible depth and way too good to play VFL but is still our 5th option on ball unfortunately.

The main thing is freeing up cap space to bring in free agents and maybe 1-2 low cost trades of the Acres/Hewett variety.

My opinion is we simply cannot carry the injury prone players any longer regardless of what happens this year. They've proven their bodies can't be relied on over a season time and time again.

I hate Collingwood as much as anyone but one thing unfortunately they have have to be given credit for is when they make a decision that they need to get out of bad contract or a player no longer fits a need they make it happen.

Treloar was on ridiculous backend money but a poor kick and decision maker so they gave him away.

Grundy self inflicted ridiculous contract they gave him so they got him out of there.

Adams made their midfield too slow and can’t really play half forward so they got rid of him.

I’m loving what Boyd brings, cincotta is miles ahead of Williams effort wise and defensively both are getting paid peanuts and their isn’t a halfback/ back pocket in the competition I would take ahead of Adam Saad so Williams is definitely expendable, getting his contract off the books is the only real way I can see us creating some Cap room to add to our list however it’s easier said than done getting rid of that contract.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

And I'm sure Austin is working hard to find us other options....as are 17 other list managers in the AFL.

I don't care if they're small ot tall, but we need to find creative forwards who know where the big posts are. We brought Moir in for that exact reason, and the 'rumour' was that we were going to select either him or Collard depending on who was still available. And I assume that Monahan has also been earmarked for a similar forward role, although he's clearly a project player.

I'm still a little baffled with some of our draft selections over the past few years, but I also have zero doubt that Vossy played a fairly major role in our list strategy. Austin just had to try and find the best available according to those requirements.

The injuries to JSOS and Martin have left a huge hole in our forward structure, Moir right now looks like a slow burn, and Monahan ever slower. But I 100% agree that it's an area we need to address in the short term. I'd love us to take a 'risk' and select someone like a Jack Hutchison in the MSD.

Collard would have been an astute selection if still available, electric, strong mark, great goal sense, with a bit of mongrel, think he's the type WalshistheGOAT is implying we lack.
Not disappointed with the Moir selection either, X-factor hybrid forward was also a need, does he have the drive and attitude to succeed long term?
It'll be fascinating following the futures of these 2.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

I'm watching Holman just do his job, imagine him and not Fantasia, Durdin or Owies ? Talk about giving away a missing piece, he just wasn't glamourous enough?

 

[Arr0w]

If we traded/delisted the following and we had a hypothetical 2.5 million of cap space to try and balance our list, who would you be targeting to fill our list holes?

Young - 400k
Williams - 850k
Martin - 400k
Cuningham - 200k
Kennedy - 500k
Fantasia - 200k

It's a valid question, but I'm interested in a scenario in terms of the amount of leverage we have in trading Williams

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

It's a valid question, but I'm interested in a scenario in terms of the amount of leverage we have in trading Williams

Unfortunately we don’t have any leverage unless we attach draft picks with him in a trade for a team to take his salary but Austin probably rightfully so wouldn’t want to lose those picks. Maybe a senario where we still pay a decent percentage of his salary (example pies with Grundy and Treloar or Hawks with Tom Mitchell) but it is unlikely.

 

[Arr0w]

Unfortunately we don’t have any leverage unless we attach draft picks with him in a trade for a team to take his salary but Austin probably rightfully so wouldn’t want to lose those picks. Maybe a senario where we still pay a decent percentage of his salary (example pies with Grundy and Treloar or Hawks with Tom Mitchell) but it is unlikely.

As you say, I think the only valid scenario is us paying a sizable portion of his wage, but who would be interested in a 30 year old injury prone flanker