List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[BigFrizz36]

I would think that Geelong would be in the hunt for a ruckman.
Pitto would easily take the number one spot down there. He would complement their midfield.
That would leave us with a very shakey Ruck division but If Pitto went to Geelong then one of their rucks might be available cheaply. Maybe turn Young into a fulltime ruck until HoK is ready.

We'd want a great deal to let (the long term contracted) Pitto go to Geelong and to take one of their nowhere near as good rucks in return.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Owies is a real interesting one. It wouldn’t surprise me if a club offers him 4 years at that ~$450k mark. I would be hesitant going that long.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

It sounds like the AFL is going to allow players to stay on the rookie list for 5 years (previously 3) the proviso might be that it is done to develop rucks, key positions etc so their might be a games limit imposed so that regular senior players aren't just hidden there. Apparently the clubs are in agreement.

Maybe the rookie list should be extended by 3-4 places and players with more than 50-60 AFL games be excluded.
Newly drafted 18 year olds should be considered rookies and allowed to develop and not be part of the senior list.

 

[BluStreak]

We'd want a great deal to let (the long term contracted) Pitto go to Geelong and to take one of their nowhere near as good rucks in return.

i am thinking that their 'no good' ones would be VFL capable

 

[Blue__Balls]

Maybe the rookie list should be extended by 3-4 places and players with more than 50-60 AFL games be excluded.
Newly drafted 18 year olds should be considered rookies and allowed to develop and not be part of the senior list.

It's probably not a bad approach, simplify it heavily and do away with the rookie draft.

Currently it's a senior list size of 36-38 and a rookie list of 0-6, with a maximum of 42 players across the two lists. Rookie's can only spend 3 years on the rookie list, and the "minimum" rookie contract value portion of their salary is excluded from the TPP (ie. if you want to pay them the minimum, they take up no cap space, but if you need to pay them extra for any reason that starts to impact your cap). Cat B rookies are separate again, 0-2 spots, their full salary sits outside the cap. Once upon a time you had to elevate rookies to even be able to select them in the senior side, but these days it's pretty much purely a financial tool.

I don't know why you couldn't just say that the senior list size is 36-42 players, and at the final list lodgement up to X of those players can be designated as rookies provided they have played less than 30* games (*pick any number you want though). Those players have $XX,000 of their salary excluded from the cap, whether they're first round draftees, Pick 95 in the draft or an SSP selection. Do away with the rookie draft completely and just let the national draft run out an extra 30 picks each year.

Functionally it doesn't change much - most clubs would have 15-20 players who meet the criteria, so if you capped it at 8 or 10 players then everyone will be getting the same value from it. But it does away with all the list manipulation crap with rookies needing to be elevated using token draft picks that aren't getting used for anything else and players being delisted and re-rookied to free up senior list spots when clubs only want to actually delist rookie listed players. It's all stupid. One list, players who qualify at the start of the year can be considered rookies for cap space, if by the next year they no longer qualify (played too many games) then the club nominates another new draftee instead.

 

[Stamos]

It's probably not a bad approach, simplify it heavily and do away with the rookie draft.

Currently it's a senior list size of 36-38 and a rookie list of 0-6, with a maximum of 42 players across the two lists. Rookie's can only spend 3 years on the rookie list, and the "minimum" rookie contract value portion of their salary is excluded from the TPP (ie. if you want to pay them the minimum, they take up no cap space, but if you need to pay them extra for any reason that starts to impact your cap). Cat B rookies are separate again, 0-2 spots, their full salary sits outside the cap. Once upon a time you had to elevate rookies to even be able to select them in the senior side, but these days it's pretty much purely a financial tool.

I don't know why you couldn't just say that the senior list size is 36-42 players, and at the final list lodgement up to X of those players can be designated as rookies provided they have played less than 30* games (*pick any number you want though). Those players have $XX,000 of their salary excluded from the cap, whether they're first round draftees, Pick 95 in the draft or an SSP selection. Do away with the rookie draft completely and just let the national draft run out an extra 30 picks each year.

Functionally it doesn't change much - most clubs would have 15-20 players who meet the criteria, so if you capped it at 8 or 10 players then everyone will be getting the same value from it. But it does away with all the list manipulation crap with rookies needing to be elevated using token draft picks that aren't getting used for anything else and players being delisted and re-rookied to free up senior list spots when clubs only want to actually delist rookie listed players. It's all stupid. One list, players who qualify at the start of the year can be considered rookies for cap space, if by the next year they no longer qualify (played too many games) then the club nominates another new draftee instead.

Simpler still would be to add the current max cap exclusion ($480k ie 6 x 80k) to the salary cap, absorb cat A rookies into the senior list to a list of 42.

1st round picks get 3 year contracts
2nd & 3rd round get 2 year contracts
4th + get 1 year

Then Cat B as is, or similar.

 

[BigFrizz36]

There's more to it than whether players have played senior games or not. I also don't know how you can confidently declare players yet to play AFL football 'not busts'.

I question the logic of drafting for the 'now' when most of them are 18 year olds who won't be playing their best football for quite a few years. That seems to have been the logic with almost every pick.

As I said, we've done well with trades but I don't think our drafting tactics are sustainable long term.

Out and out rubbish. Austin traded out first rounders for Saad and Cerra. Could easily have drafted a young kid instead for 3 or 4 years in the future. Our list is in fine shape both for the now and for the foreseeable future.

 

[gbatman]

Both Austin and Silvagni have done well. Our list is in great shape with depth and top end talent. If you review nearly all the list managers of the top sides there are bucket loads of misses and plenty in the first round. Results speak for themselves.

 

[Burgers45]

Jake Niall The Age Carlton with tight salary cap - Struggling with new contracts Carroll & Owies...

Blues’ contracts on hold amid salary cap squeeze

A tight salary cap is behind two Carlton players not yet being offered new deals.

t.co

 

[Stamos]

Jake Niall The Age Carlton with tight salary cap - Struggling with new contracts Carroll & Owies...

Blues’ contracts on hold amid salary cap squeeze

A tight salary cap is behind two Carlton players not yet being offered new deals.

t.co

Interesting.
So assuming they are wanted as per the article, that leaves, Cunners, Marchy and Martin out, or a contracted player (at a minimum.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Interesting.
So assuming they are wanted as per the article, that leaves, Cunners, Marchy and Martin out, or a contracted player (at a minimum.

It sounds very much like that our plan to have enough cap space if Hayward came over was to clear a few off the decks like Martin, Owies and Carroll maybe.

 

[JustOneTime]

It also means Owies if retained would want a chunk of that Hayward pie. Other players too.

I'm sure various players mgmt will be pushing.

Carlton can find the money if it wants (exhibit Hayward).

 

[Jatz]

Interesting that we could somehow have fit Hayward in but now it's tight.

Who was the player that's been saved by Will staying at Sydney?

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Jake Niall The Age Carlton with tight salary cap - Struggling with new contracts Carroll & Owies...

Blues’ contracts on hold amid salary cap squeeze

A tight salary cap is behind two Carlton players not yet being offered new deals.

t.co

Cue the “brown paper bags” comments from dips*** colonwood Richmond and * supporters

 

[JustOneTime]

Interesting that we could somehow have fit Hayward in but now it's tight.

Who was the player that's been saved by Will staying at Sydney?

Owies?

Remember, this would have been 12 months in the planning?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Cue the “brown paper bags” comments from dips*** colonwood Richmond and * supporters

The village idiot Andrew Gaze already banging on about it on SEN and Bounce trying to get a cheap laugh.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

The village idiot Andrew Gaze already banging on about it on SEN and Bounce trying to get a cheap laugh.

Course he has.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Interesting that we could somehow have fit Hayward in but now it's tight.

Who was the player that's been saved by Will staying at Sydney?

TDK turning into an AA level ruck will have thrown a spanner in the works re cap space

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Simpler still would be to add the current max cap exclusion ($480k ie 6 x 80k) to the salary cap, absorb cat A rookies into the senior list to a list of 42.

1st round picks get 3 year contracts
2nd & 3rd round get 2 year contracts
4th + get 1 year

Then Cat B as is, or similar.

100% this.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Simpler still would be to add the current max cap exclusion ($480k ie 6 x 80k) to the salary cap, absorb cat A rookies into the senior list to a list of 42.

1st round picks get 3 year contracts
2nd & 3rd round get 2 year contracts
4th + get 1 year

Then Cat B as is, or similar.

Does this system mean that 1st. round draft picks are contracted on minimum wages for 3 years, whilst later picks can negotiate higher salaries sooner if their form deserves it?

 

[ESKIE]

Blues’ contracts on hold amid salary cap squeeze

A tight salary cap is behind two Carlton players not yet being offered new deals.

www.theage.com.au

 

[ESKIE]

Blues’ contracts on hold amid salary cap squeeze

A tight salary cap is behind two Carlton players not yet being offered new deals.

www.theage.com.au

 

[The Smoking Gun]

We've got to let at least 3 go from the senior list. Carroll, Cunners and....Pitto??? ...Owies???.
Unless we somehow manufacture to transfer a player to the rookie list.

Carroll and Owies aren't on big money and and are unlikely to ever command big money or long-term deals. I would think the club would offer 2 year deals on close to minimum chips for both. It's not as though we're bereft of small forwards anymore and Owies hasn't shown he has the ability to rip a game apart like Rachelle, Rankin, Stengel, Weightman, Ryan, Rioli, Cameron, etc.

Honestly, some of the money people here claim players should be on is ridiculous. $450k X 30 = $13.5m, which is somewhere around our entire salary cap. We know Curnow, McKay, Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Cerra, etc are in the $600k-$800k range, while Saad, Martin & Williams wouldn't be far off that mark. What many people here envisage what a player's salary woulda, coulda, shoulda been on compared to what they actually are on would be in stark contrast to each other IMO. Pitto signed a 4 year deal so he won't be going anywhere unless traded.

The first players I'm looking to offload are overly injury-prone players or ones that don't look being able to compete for a senior spot. Marchbank, Cunners, Martin, S.Durdin, Akuei and Mirkov. Can I trade my way out of Young??? Does that give me enough salary cap space to lure over Tom McDonald (UFA) on a 2 year deal to help Weiters out while we develop a young KPD. McDonald isn't going to command big money at this stage of his career. Would certainly balance up our backline.

The talent/skills of our small forwards and some other players haven't changed a great deal really....

The main change is the way we play as a team and in particular the forward pressure and turnover game really allows the smaller/more mobile players to shine

For example fog is not playing that differently to how he played when we first got him - watch his highlight reel from the cats days and early on as a blue is very similar to how he plays now - like a weapon

Owies was always good and even better now with our improved game style/systems

I cant wait for Motlop to return either - I think he is going to be even more electric.

Durdin dtill young and developing.

The change in our game style and renewed energy after the Curnow camp and in recent weeks this year has been amazingly good and it is making good use of the role players.

A lot of these role players tend to improve as the quality of players around them improve. Let's say Owies used to cop the 3rd best defender, now with Elijah & Williams down there he may only cop the 5th best defender. Life becomes easier for everyone.

Everyone develops differently but I liken him to Kennedy as that slower / classy strong bodied midfielder. Matt was still struggling up until 2022. So he was 25 before he came good - Jack is still 21. Plenty of supporters wanted Kennedy delisted prior to '22 also and was only retained on our rookie list in 2020.

I'm not worried about Jack Carroll at this stage. At least he's fit, on the park and can be used if required. There's more than enough that can't though.

Owies is a real interesting one. It wouldn’t surprise me if a club offers him 4 years at that ~$450k mark. I would be hesitant going that long.

Doubt it. Owies would be 31 at the end of that. That's K Cornes fantasy numbers JMO.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Carroll and Owies aren't on big money and and are unlikely to ever command big money or long-term deals. I would think the club would offer 2 year deals on close to minimum chips for both. It's not as though we're bereft of small forwards anymore and Owies hasn't shown he has the ability to rip a game apart like Rachelle, Rankin, Stengel, Weightman, Ryan, Rioli, Cameron, etc.

Honestly, some of the money people here claim players should be on is ridiculous. $450k X 30 = $13.5m, which is somewhere around our entire salary cap. We know Curnow, McKay, Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Cerra, etc are in the $600k-$800k range, while Saad, Martin & Williams wouldn't be far off that mark. What many people here envisage what a player's salary woulda, coulda, shoulda been on compared to what they actually are on would be in stark contrast to each other IMO. Pitto signed a 4 year deal so he won't be going anywhere unless traded.

The first players I'm looking to offload are overly injury-prone players or ones that don't look being able to compete for a senior spot. Marchbank, Cunners, Martin, S.Durdin, Akuei and Mirkov. Can I trade my way out of Young??? Does that give me enough salary cap space to lure over Tom McDonald (UFA) on a 2 year deal to help Weiters out while we develop a young KPD. McDonald isn't going to command big money at this stage of his career. Would certainly balance up our backline.


A lot of these role players tend to improve as the quality of players around them improve. Let's say Owies used to cop the 3rd best defender, now with Elijah & Williams down there he may only cop the 5th best defender. Life becomes easier for everyone.


I'm not worried about Jack Carroll at this stage. At least he's fit, on the park and can be used if required. There's more than enough that can't though.


Doubt it. Owies would be 31 at the end of that. That's K Cornes fantasy numbers JMO.

The salary cap is almost $18mil next year. That would mean Owies is getting the AFL avg next year and below from then on.
most best 22 players would expect the avg wage.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Carroll and Owies aren't on big money and and are unlikely to ever command big money or long-term deals. I would think the club would offer 2 year deals on close to minimum chips for both. It's not as though we're bereft of small forwards anymore and Owies hasn't shown he has the ability to rip a game apart like Rachelle, Rankin, Stengel, Weightman, Ryan, Rioli, Cameron, etc.

Honestly, some of the money people here claim players should be on is ridiculous. $450k X 30 = $13.5m, which is somewhere around our entire salary cap. We know Curnow, McKay, Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Cerra, etc are in the $600k-$800k range, while Saad, Martin & Williams wouldn't be far off that mark. What many people here envisage what a player's salary woulda, coulda, shoulda been on compared to what they actually are on would be in stark contrast to each other IMO. Pitto signed a 4 year deal so he won't be going anywhere unless traded.

The first players I'm looking to offload are overly injury-prone players or ones that don't look being able to compete for a senior spot. Marchbank, Cunners, Martin, S.Durdin, Akuei and Mirkov. Can I trade my way out of Young??? Does that give me enough salary cap space to lure over Tom McDonald (UFA) on a 2 year deal to help Weiters out while we develop a young KPD. McDonald isn't going to command big money at this stage of his career. Would certainly balance up our backline.


A lot of these role players tend to improve as the quality of players around them improve. Let's say Owies used to cop the 3rd best defender, now with Elijah & Williams down there he may only cop the 5th best defender. Life becomes easier for everyone.


I'm not worried about Jack Carroll at this stage. At least he's fit, on the park and can be used if required. There's more than enough that can't though.


Doubt it. Owies would be 31 at the end of that. That's K Cornes fantasy numbers JMO.

You really think that Curnow, Cripps. Walsh et all are on $600k - $800k? Harry Perryman is weighing up whether to take a deal at hawthorn for 5 years at $800k per year. Salary cap next year goes up to over $17 million from over $15 million this year. There were 19 players getting over $1 million a year in 2023, and that number is expected to explode in 2025. There's probably a couple of our players on over $1 million now and a couple more to join that list shortly.

Weitering has supposedly just said no to a $12million offer over 8 years at the Saints. I think that you might have to adjust your numbers a bit