l believe Lemmey is along way off Afl level, we will need to look externally, more optimistic on Wilson but may be a further year away.
Last edited:
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 2 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃
- Thread starter Aphrodite
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
Mature recruits or other clubs rejects?
Would rather go to the draft and obtain more picks in the top 25 in this draft.
Draft picks means more players who will not be able to play AFL next season. We need some draft picks, but not bucket loads of kids who wont be able to play AFL for 2 or 4 years.
Balanced recruiting is necessary.
Beyond Blue
Club Legend
- Jun 25, 2021
- 2,979
- 9,479
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Unlike some in here I don’t think we should be trading any of our top 10 players. That said it’s pretty clear we have need to address our key list gaps, specifically a second key defender, a speedy midfield/forward and a medium forward. I think Austen got caught up in our end of season run last year and thought Martin, Cunners and Marchbank could get the job done. Sadly they’ve all reverted to form and now his inaction is likely to cost us a shot at this years flag. He now must address all these 3 issues at the end of the this year. And this is how I think he can do it.
With respect to the key defender role I cannot see how we could possibly get Barrass as the trade capital and salary cap cost is too high and others (ie the Dogs) will be able to offer far more. I do however think Jeremy McGovern is more gettable and obviously we can play on the lure of playing with his brother. This might mean he’s willing to take a little bit less money than he could get on the open market. Sam Durdin is delisted but we keep Young as a break glass back up (he actually provides back up for 3 positions so I think he is actually quite a valuable part of the list. We should the draft a youngster like O’Farrell for the future.
The fact chased Hayward is confirmation itself that the club knows we need a
medium forward but ironically I think we might already have our man. With Jeremy in the team Kemp can become that option. I think there is enough evidence now that Kemp cannot play on the last line of defence. He is clearly talented however and I could see him being a success in that role. That would also potentially allow us to rid ourselves of Martin who simply cannot be relied on as we’d have SOS and Kemp as viable third forward options going forward. It also means Moir could become surplus to requirements (more on that next).
The dynamic midfielder/forward is a tough one as unless you draft one they come at a high cost so this is where we might need to get creative. Whilst the cap is tight there must be some money available given we tried to get Hayward so I think it’s realistic to say we could target Rachele. He is exactly what we need. He’s had a bad season but he’ll still cost a fair bit in terms of trade capital. I believe it would be well worth it as the kids looks like he’s meant to play for Carlton. I reckon a package of our first (or future first) and Moir (or Pittonet as they need a ruckman) could get the deal done. Also if this means we lose Owies to make the numbers work then so be it.
With respect to the key defender role I cannot see how we could possibly get Barrass as the trade capital and salary cap cost is too high and others (ie the Dogs) will be able to offer far more. I do however think Jeremy McGovern is more gettable and obviously we can play on the lure of playing with his brother. This might mean he’s willing to take a little bit less money than he could get on the open market. Sam Durdin is delisted but we keep Young as a break glass back up (he actually provides back up for 3 positions so I think he is actually quite a valuable part of the list. We should the draft a youngster like O’Farrell for the future.
The fact chased Hayward is confirmation itself that the club knows we need a
medium forward but ironically I think we might already have our man. With Jeremy in the team Kemp can become that option. I think there is enough evidence now that Kemp cannot play on the last line of defence. He is clearly talented however and I could see him being a success in that role. That would also potentially allow us to rid ourselves of Martin who simply cannot be relied on as we’d have SOS and Kemp as viable third forward options going forward. It also means Moir could become surplus to requirements (more on that next).
The dynamic midfielder/forward is a tough one as unless you draft one they come at a high cost so this is where we might need to get creative. Whilst the cap is tight there must be some money available given we tried to get Hayward so I think it’s realistic to say we could target Rachele. He is exactly what we need. He’s had a bad season but he’ll still cost a fair bit in terms of trade capital. I believe it would be well worth it as the kids looks like he’s meant to play for Carlton. I reckon a package of our first (or future first) and Moir (or Pittonet as they need a ruckman) could get the deal done. Also if this means we lose Owies to make the numbers work then so be it.
We need you talent as well. I hope we bring in 4-5 through drafts.
Can still bring in 4-6 mature players especially around KP
Beyond Blue
Club Legend
- Jun 25, 2021
- 2,979
- 9,479
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Interesting you haven’t mentioned Moir. What do you think his future looks like?
- Apr 16, 2008
- 10,303
- 28,694
- AFL Club
- Carlton
It’s also time to really look at our midfield mix at the end of the season. We have all said we are too one paced and no real dynamic types. Now all of a sudden Walsh and Cerra have dropped off massively. It’s Cripps or nothing right now. I’d actually have Hewett and maybe EHollands ahead of Walsh and Cerra. Walsh’s DE last night was 52%. It was hard to watch as he either sold his team mates into trouble or just didn’t get it to our players. I’d nearly put Walsh as a HB and get him to watch the game more and get some easy disposal out the back to build some confidence before the finals. Although I don’t like to play anyone out of position but currently he is a liability.
Youth and speed is massively needed in the centre. We use brute force and then what???
Youth and speed is massively needed in the centre. We use brute force and then what???
Not necessarily at all, good draft picks will play early, getting players 28+ is going to hurt us down the track, need to aim for a sustainable good list, & giving away more early picks is not going to achieve this.
Yes we need both.
I'd like to see us get a few players capable of coming straight into the seniors. We have been ok at getting some young guys just before they come AFL ready like E Hollands.
Some fast, high effort, hard tackling mids. A CHB. Fast small forward who kicks goals, sets them up and has good closing speed and pressure. Specialist third tall forward. We have our needs.
I'd also be ok with getting in a few guys in their 30s who may come cheap and fill a spot for a few seasons. Like Jeremy McGovern if he is gettable.
I'd be happy with 3 or 4 in the draft and a similar number through trades and free agency.
Hopefully get to use our first pick and then used the next two on the Camporeale brothers.
Then again if there were any decent players looking to come our way, I'd be looking to trade this years and next year's first. Obviously considering out father son picks so picks would likely have to come back.
Cats did a great job the few seasons leading up to their flag at getting players in from other clubs who were good players. We need to follow a similar line.
Iron is hot, we need to strike.
Badly need a CHB, change the dynamics of our onball group and to add to our forward line.
Agree.
As I said before an important part is how we see Wilson Binns Ollie Cowan Kemp Lemmey O'Keefe Moir developing over the pre season and can they be genuine Best 22 in 2025
If they can it makes a real difference to our recruiting
- Apr 16, 2008
- 10,303
- 28,694
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Max Gawn will be 33 at the end of this year. I doubt the Cerra rumour is true but you would think with who they have on their list they would really want to challenge for a premiership before Gawn falls off a cliff.
I’d certainly entertain the Cerra trade but it would need to be for their 1st this year and I’d ask to have Tomlinson thrown in so he could pair with Weitering.
But it won’t happen
I’d certainly entertain the Cerra trade but it would need to be for their 1st this year and I’d ask to have Tomlinson thrown in so he could pair with Weitering.
But it won’t happen
- Apr 16, 2008
- 10,303
- 28,694
- AFL Club
- Carlton
2 GWS boys we should be chasing are Max Gruzewski (Key forward 192cms) and Conor Stone (forward 189cms who can play midfield). Both VIC boys and both not playing seniors yet but are banging down the door.
Imo these 2 guys would really make a big difference to our team in 2025 as we definitely need that 3rd tall and another medium up forward.
I’d look at getting Tomlinson from the Dees as a key back to pair with Weitering.
I think this year we should trade our 2025 1st and 2nd to bring in some fresh talent and rejuvenate this list before it’s too late and we have a 2025 with just not enough depth and quality.
Imo these 2 guys would really make a big difference to our team in 2025 as we definitely need that 3rd tall and another medium up forward.
I’d look at getting Tomlinson from the Dees as a key back to pair with Weitering.
I think this year we should trade our 2025 1st and 2nd to bring in some fresh talent and rejuvenate this list before it’s too late and we have a 2025 with just not enough depth and quality.
- Apr 4, 2018
- 16,990
- 35,043
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Bletch
Premium Platinum
- Dec 8, 2020
- 3,462
- 11,012
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Until we know what's happening with the draft rules and points matching, I'd imagine we'd be very cautious about trading out of 2025 - we may need those picks to trade into 2026 for Cody.
This is why it's imperative the AFL advertises changes like this well ahead of time - i.e. before this year's trade period.
Docherty will help
Elijah with another pre season
Fully fit Walsh & Cerra
Can Ollie muscle up?
Kemp?
Cowan?
Hopeful on Wilson but likely another year
Be unreasonable for Campo kids to have an impact in 2025
It's not far away but only Cripps is playing well at the moment
Wouldn't a Chad Warner make a difference to our mix
- Mar 25, 2019
- 11,030
- 21,787
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Forward line is treacle paced though. Motlop and Owies are staggeringly slow for two small forwards who frequently hit the score board.
Wilson and Kemp to the wing would be nice though
- Apr 16, 2008
- 10,303
- 28,694
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Have to get our house in order asap and with trading 2 years in advance, we can use picks from 2027 and 2028.
Definitely time to sort our mess asap imo
Treacle a bit harsh but if you can find us a Charlie Cameron type I’d take it
Yeh. We were discussing this.
Given where we are do we go all in and try and get some top 10 picks?
There is apparently some very talented and quick mids early in the draft. Could change our whole list dynamic in one draft if smart
I think Wilson will be a beauty but I don't know if that will be defence or in the middle. Could not say when.
Binns I don't know. I think another team with a different game plan could use him. He's not a defensive winger. I see him as a Steele Sidebottom type of wingman. Short, not overly quick, just well skilled and high footy IQ.
Ollie Hollands will be a good player, I can see it, he just needs time to mature.
Lemmy I don't think will make it as an AFL player but I could be wrong.
O'Keefe I think is further away than many think. I don't think he plays AFL next season.
Moir will either never make it or will be starting to show signs in his third season so quite a while away. He would be a lot closer if he was drafted 20 years ago when there was a spot in AFL teams for lazy, unfit but hugely talented forwards. Game has moved a long way away from that.
Kemp is being played out of position. He needs to be played in a smaller role. He isn't a strong spoiler. Third tall or even a smaller defensive role. He's a decent half back and played ok there last season but we haven't gone back there. You like myself want to see him developed into a wingman. Even in the middle I would like to see it. We can see it. Coaches can't. About that...
I think our coaching group lacks creative thinking. Very rigid and not tactically that great IMO. Looking at our coaches, they are all failures and rejects from other clubs. Doubt any clubs out there would be getting excited over obtaining any of them apart from Hansen. I'd be going after Simpson big time for midfield coach. He's a premiership senior coach and a premiership midfield coach.
We need to sure up CHB. Either with a good young player or we bring in an old player like McGovern and a draftee who we develop and is ready when the older player retires.
Our onball group needs a shakeup. Hewett, Carroll and/or Kennedy on the trade table if we can get an upgrade. Hollands should be seen as a permanent part of the onball group next season. He should progress from a forward who plays mid to a mid who plays forward. I think Cerra isn't as fit as he could be. He needs to come out next season blazing. I see Lord as a developing player who hopefully pushes for a mid spot. I think Ben Camporeale will be really good but will be a first year player so lets not expect him to play senior footy next season. I'd be shopping our first round pick around, try and grab an onballer from another club who has burst speed but also likes to tackle and chase. Our recruiting of onballers has totally missed the point about pressure. Add a couple of players in there with a bit of speed who hit the ball hard and chase really well and this changes the whole dynamics of our team and team defence.
I'd also be targeting players for the half forward line. We need some pace and smarts there.
McGovern Weitering Newman
Saad 1 2
Acres Cripps Hollands
3 Curnow 4
Silvagni McKay Motlop
DeKoning Walsh Cerra
Cowan E Hollands 6 7
At a guess, These are our needs.
1. CHB. I think we could use a mature head here. Can we pull one out of another club? Can we get McGovern for a few years while we also recruit a developing key back? We wanted it to be Marchbank, the club were open about that at times but injuries have just about put this to bed. I don't think it's Lemmy, his pace, ground level game and marking game as well as intensity don't suggest CHB for mine.
2. Elite half back flank. In the last three seasons we have been at our best with Saad, Docherty and Williams all firing. Docherty has been moved to a wing and then became injured. I think he will go back to half back where he is an AA player. Williams for some reason has been dumped from the defence and stuck to the forward line where he gained form. Boyd is ok. But apart from that that other gun running half back isn't there. Could it be Wilson?
3 and 4. We have been putting mindless runners on the half forward flanks and it shows. Run up and down, no footy IQ or physical pressure, they aren't genuine half forwards. We need pace and natural footballers there who can kick straight and kick well to our forwards. That rules out Fogarty, Cottrell and Fantasia who are good VFL level players and nothing more. Hollands has played there and been decent. Wouldn't say he has the pace, but he has the footy brain and the skills. You would like to see Williams and Martin there in full flight but again, they are often injured. E Hollands IMO will play mostly in the middle next season and rest deep forward. Are the forwards on our list? No. Martin and Williams yes, but they aren't available often enough. Moir is miles away. The rest aren't good enough.
6 is a new face for the onball group. Someone fast who uses their speed to apply pressure. A real pressure beast who can carry the football and hunts the man as well as the ball. Are they on our list? Not likely. Lord has shown a bit in the VFL but I don't know if he is this player. They also need to skills, I'm not talking a tagger who doesn't get much of it. I'm talking a high effort, high intensity, repeat effort player.
7 is another forward. Someone fast who will use it to close down opposition players but also has the skills to finish when they get the footy. Ideally can spend some time in the middle. Again they aren't on our list. We have a plethora of makeshift forwards and a real lack of genuine natural instinctive forwards.
This sounds a lot but Geelong did it no trouble at all. They brought in a bunch of player who played similar positions who became premiership players.
Last edited:
- Apr 4, 2018
- 16,990
- 35,043
- AFL Club
- Carlton
last couple of years we've been treading water - we needed to get creative back then so we're a bit behind the 8 ball imo. And now the job has become a bit harder.
for a club coming into its flag window we were not proactive enough with the list.
for a club coming into its flag window we were not proactive enough with the list.
Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
Even if it were true, that's no reason to throw him to the wolves at half-back.
Dunno why we picked him when we got Lij. Makes no sense.
With the twins and walker coming in, do we trade up and try and trade for the now while we're at the right end of the ladder? Dunno whether kids at this specific moment are going to move the needle enough......
- Sep 19, 2019
- 10,775
- 15,354
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Lakeshow
Foot speed and ball users inside 50
We are slow and use it poorly going forward
Not sure if the answer is on the list and Campo brothers are on the unknown/too young side to impact while our window is open
Binns? Wilson?
I feel like if we can get a speedy ball user for Cerra I’m up for that. I don’t watch enough footy to know who that is and teams aren’t giving away the likes of Hayden Young.
Of course, we have two of the top 5 worst users inside 50 in Bam and Walsh so internal growth is a distinct possibility
We are slow and use it poorly going forward
Not sure if the answer is on the list and Campo brothers are on the unknown/too young side to impact while our window is open
Binns? Wilson?
I feel like if we can get a speedy ball user for Cerra I’m up for that. I don’t watch enough footy to know who that is and teams aren’t giving away the likes of Hayden Young.
Of course, we have two of the top 5 worst users inside 50 in Bam and Walsh so internal growth is a distinct possibility
- Status
