List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Denno]

Cam is the one player more than others that I'd be shocked if he left. His buy-in to the club and work on the culture as a first overall pick (as commented on by several players over the years) has been significant.

Particularly when he had chances previously..........

 

[Pns_blister]

If Cam did leave on mega money it wouldn’t be the end of the world. If someone offered 1 mil for him, as a restricted FA you’d be demanding significant draft capital. Not a terrible outcome just before Tasmania is set to join.

 

[martinson]

Cam's played a few good games . As of now he's looking very good .

I'd be astounded if he even gave a second thought to leaving the Lions.

But the footy world is littered with clubs who gave up an absolute crapload for someone who looked really good and tore it up at the right age and then went on to give a very poor return for the outlandish outlay.

I don't think there's any hope of Cam leaving us by choice and hopefully he continues to build on the form he's shown the last few weeks and puts it together over the next few years.

 

[BuntonRules]

I was thinking today whether or not our players have agreed to take less for the betterment of the team, Carlton players made it public that they were taking less for example. I imagine Cam ultimately wants to be the top dog in the midfield so perhaps that could be a big deciding factor. St Kilda and Essendon will come hard I'm sure.

Dunno about that. I reckon Cam loves what he is doing now and he knows where his best is.

And if the boys take a pay cut for the team, I reckon Cam would be front of the line.

 

[buttermuffs]

RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS 2025
Andrew Brayshaw (Fremantle)
Luke Davies-Uniacke (North Melbourne)
Cam Rayner (Brisbane Lions)
James Worpel (Hawthorn)
Oscar Allen (West Coast Eagles)
Ed Richards (Western Bulldogs)
Charlie Ballard (Gold Coast Suns)
Noah Balta (Richmond)
___________________
There will be some huge money coming for Cam if he continues his current form through the rest of the season, IMO if he tears up a finals series clubs coming for him could offer up to 900K-1 Million per season for circa 5-6 years.

Would we be able to match that?

I reckon. His current form over the past six weeks if definitely worth it. I’d say only Neale and Andrews have had more impact and he’s tied with McCluggage and Dunkley. We’d find a way to match it unless a club is offering like 1.1 million. Obviously not out of the picture for a club like Essendon to do it.

Though I’d say Cam definitely would be more interested in staying then going and that does affect how much less we may have to offer.

 

[buttermuffs]

Cam's played a few good games . As of now he's looking very good .

I'd be astounded if he even gave a second thought to leaving the Lions.

But the footy world is littered with clubs who gave up an absolute crapload for someone who looked really good and tore it up at the right age and then went on to give a very poor return for the outlandish outlay.

I don't think there's any hope of Cam leaving us by choice and hopefully he continues to build on the form he's shown the last few weeks and puts it together over the next few years.

To be fair to those players it’s mainly the fault of those clubs themselves. They have the big cap space to offer monstrous deals because their list doesn’t exactly have the talent to demand higher salary. Then the overpaid recruited player is talked up as game changer and obviously doesn’t live up to the value.

Think if Josh Kelly went to North, he wasn’t turning that club around and he was getting over a million dollars a year on offer last decade.

I’m not even sure Dusty could live up to the hype if he joined North. He benefited from an elite backline at Richmond, and could go forward and have the likes of Cotchin run the midfield still. He’d play amazingly to a degree but probably wouldn’t drag them to a premiership.

 

[briztoon]

If Cam did leave on mega money it wouldn’t be the end of the world. If someone offered 1 mil for him, as a restricted FA you’d be demanding significant draft capital. Not a terrible outcome just before Tasmania is set to join.

 

[p4p1]

I was thinking today whether or not our players have agreed to take less for the betterment of the team, Carlton players made it public that they were taking less for example. I imagine Cam ultimately wants to be the top dog in the midfield so perhaps that could be a big deciding factor. St Kilda and Essendon will come hard I'm sure.

I suspect that because of his profile Cam may have been getting paid overs in his previous contract compared to his output on the field. Unless our offer to him was an insult I don’t see him going anywhere, seems to love the club and the team.

 

[martinson]

I suspect that because of his profile Cam may have been getting paid overs in his previous contract compared to his output on the field. Unless our offer to him was an insult I don’t see him going anywhere, seems to love the club and the team.

Fwiiw the last thing Cam would want to be is the top dog in the midfield ,nor could he be.

He's playing good footy because we've found the right slot for him where he's happy and able to contribute fully without gassing himself.

 

[Berrygood]

I think the squad has taken a big development step this season.

We've had young players emerge into first graders, Wilmot, Fletcher, Lohmann, Morris.

We've seen rookies turn into capable depth, Brain, Reville, Smith and Sharp.

We've seen the reaffirmation of some depth players capabilities, Answerth, Joyce, Prior.

The newest Lions, ZZ a late start, Torrent and Lloyd have shown encouraging ability.

We will have, Kiddy, Doedee, McCarthy and Gardiner back like 4 new recruits.

There's been a few fringe players that haven't taken a step fwd for whatever reason, Ryan, Dev, Tunstil, Madden, Lane, Michael. Injury and/or lack of opportunity can be a b*tch. Ryan, Dev and Tunstil I think contracted for next year, Ryan n Dev I still think have depth uses.

Fort and Lyons really haven't been needed. Both very specific replacements for specific players. Fort I'm kinda glad we have but also glad we don't need to use. Lyons the same but I think he is less needed now.

Lyons, Lane, Madden and Michael are those I'd let go.

If we were to just pick up Levi Ashcroft, Marshall and Gillet in the draft I'd be happy. I really don't think we need to do anymore than that.

Maybe another tall defender but surely we won't have another injury season like this. ZZ will have another preseason under his belt, will get more games n experience, if a disaster happens again he could step up.

The wild cards in the recruitment game are players that want to leave and players that want to come.

I don't foresee anyone other than maybe Dev wanting a trade. Gunston finally retiring may open up a return for Ryan to Hawthorn if he wanted to go home or if Mitchell wants him.

I haven't heard of any player out there that's declared they want to come here. Probably wouldn't expect any as yet. There's usually a surprise each year, happy to wait n see.

When ya take into consideration the squad development and needs, the talent we've squeezed into the Salary cap, I think we've looked after the now and the future really well. Quiet but effective at the end of this season. We don't need to be otherwise.

 

[Darren Downunder]

RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS 2025
Andrew Brayshaw (Fremantle)
Luke Davies-Uniacke (North Melbourne)
Cam Rayner (Brisbane Lions)
James Worpel (Hawthorn)
Oscar Allen (West Coast Eagles)
Ed Richards (Western Bulldogs)
Charlie Ballard (Gold Coast Suns)
Noah Balta (Richmond)
___________________
There will be some huge money coming for Cam if he continues his current form through the rest of the season, IMO if he tears up a finals series clubs coming for him could offer up to 900K-1 Million per season for circa 5-6 years.

Would we be able to match that?

Shouldn’t Darcy Fogarty (Adelaide) be in that list?

 

[Perrip]

Academy, F/S, and draft bidding changes confirmed coming in next year. Future pick trading also won't come in until 2025. Changes to zones will also be in 2025

 

[Tom14]

Good to see no mention of restrictions on live pick trading on draft night - so we can still accumulate more picks than we have list spots on draft night (unless they announce it later I guess).

One last academy rort for the road

 

[Tom14]

Shouldn’t Darcy Fogarty (Adelaide) be in that list?

Think the list was just of notable RFAs - so Fogarty missed out. Starce probably qualifies as well.

 

[Lionwest]

Academy, F/S, and draft bidding changes confirmed coming in next year. Future pick trading also won't come in until 2025. Changes to zones will also be in 2025

I found the 'prioritisation' of this rule amusing

• Clubs having access from pick No.1 onwards for NGA prospects in a return to previous rules to align with northern Academy and the father-son bidding system. The AFL has prioritised this change, revealed by AFL.com.au last month, because it does not want to further see a decline in diverse and Indigenous talent.

Anyone getting picked up in the top 40 will be drafted in any case, so not sure as to why they believe bringing it in this year will assist diversification across the league.

Sounds like appeasement to the big VFL clubs

 

[Grasshopper17]

I found the 'prioritisation' of this rule amusing

• Clubs having access from pick No.1 onwards for NGA prospects in a return to previous rules to align with northern Academy and the father-son bidding system. The AFL has prioritised this change, revealed by AFL.com.au last month, because it does not want to further see a decline in diverse and Indigenous talent.

Anyone getting picked up in the top 40 will be drafted in any case, so not sure as to why they believe bringing it in this year will assist diversification across the league.

Sounds like appeasement to the big VFL clubs

I'm ok with it. Essentially the logic is that if clubs don't have any incentive to develop players from underprivileged backgrounds... They won't.

 

[KissKiss]

• Clubs will be able to retain rookies for up to a maximum of five years, up from the current three years. This is to help give clubs more time to develop key position and taller talents as well as players from different backgrounds. Stipulations will mean the player cannot have played more than 10 games at the end of his fourth or fifth season to retain rookie status.

This is an interesting one as we might have a few guys like Lane who could fit under the criteria

 

[Lionwest]

I'm ok with it. Essentially the logic is that if clubs don't have any incentive to develop players from underprivileged backgrounds... They won't.

I'm ok with it as well but not the spin they used as to why it was implemented this year. Just say to make things fair, no problems

All Clubs will 100% spend time and invest in any talented player knowing that they have access to them in the 2025 draft pool and onwards. It's not like they will throw their hands up and say sorry come back next year. Using their logic i'd expect any NGA kids in the 2024 draft is going to get a huge uplift in development between now and draft day!!!

 

[BuntonRules]

I found the 'prioritisation' of this rule amusing

• Clubs having access from pick No.1 onwards for NGA prospects in a return to previous rules to align with northern Academy and the father-son bidding system. The AFL has prioritised this change, revealed by AFL.com.au last month, because it does not want to further see a decline in diverse and Indigenous talent.

Anyone getting picked up in the top 40 will be drafted in any case, so not sure as to why they believe bringing it in this year will assist diversification across the league.

Sounds like appeasement to the big VFL clubs

It is an admission that they got it wrong. If you have academies, and FS, the rules have to be uniform. Will help us as the Vic clubs will endorse it if they are getting value from their NGA investment.

Bit late for the Saints, but - Mac Andrew.

 

[Maboo]

The new rules around the DVI don’t seem as drastic as first thought, like matching a bid with a pick in the same round as the bid.


For 2025, the main changes will be:

• The revised draft value index and bidding system will be introduced. The new DVI will make it harder for clubs to stockpile draft selections to match multiple bids on Academy and father-son selections.
• As part of this, the 20 per cent points discount applied to matched bids will be reduced to 10 per cent. However, the AFL will continue to review this and assess whether it should apply to all or some of father-son, NGA and northern Academy players.
• The new DVI will see points attached to only the first 54 picks (down from the current system of the first 73 picks). There will be more than 10,000 points shaved off the value of the next DVI.
• Future trading of picks will be extended to two years in advance.

For 2026, the main change will be:

• Live trading will be introduced for the 2026 mid-season rookie draft, allowing clubs to move up and down in the order or trade into the draft using end of year selections.

 

[BuntonRules]

The new rules around the DVI don’t seem as drastic as first thought, like matching a bid with a pick in the same round as the bid.


For 2025, the main changes will be:

• The revised draft value index and bidding system will be introduced. The new DVI will make it harder for clubs to stockpile draft selections to match multiple bids on Academy and father-son selections.
• As part of this, the 20 per cent points discount applied to matched bids will be reduced to 10 per cent. However, the AFL will continue to review this and assess whether it should apply to all or some of father-son, NGA and northern Academy players.
• The new DVI will see points attached to only the first 54 picks (down from the current system of the first 73 picks). There will be more than 10,000 points shaved off the value of the next DVI.
• Future trading of picks will be extended to two years in advance.

For 2026, the main change will be:

• Live trading will be introduced for the 2026 mid-season rookie draft, allowing clubs to move up and down in the order or trade into the draft using end of year selections.

Inevitable.

 

[Dalions]

The new rules around the DVI don’t seem as drastic as first thought, like matching a bid with a pick in the same round as the bid.


For 2025, the main changes will be:

• The revised draft value index and bidding system will be introduced. The new DVI will make it harder for clubs to stockpile draft selections to match multiple bids on Academy and father-son selections.
• As part of this, the 20 per cent points discount applied to matched bids will be reduced to 10 per cent. However, the AFL will continue to review this and assess whether it should apply to all or some of father-son, NGA and northern Academy players.
• The new DVI will see points attached to only the first 54 picks (down from the current system of the first 73 picks). There will be more than 10,000 points shaved off the value of the next DVI.
• Future trading of picks will be extended to two years in advance.

For 2026, the main change will be:

• Live trading will be introduced for the 2026 mid-season rookie draft, allowing clubs to move up and down in the order or trade into the draft using end of year selections.

Will be forced to have a pick much closer to the bid though because it will be much harder to match a bid with later picks only.
Especially if it is a fairly early bid.

 

[briztoon]

I'm ok with it as well but not the spin they used as to why it was implemented this year. Just say to make things fair, no problems

All Clubs will 100% spend time and invest in any talented player knowing that they have access to them in the 2025 draft pool and onwards. It's not like they will throw their hands up and say sorry come back next year. Using their logic i'd expect any NGA kids in the 2024 draft is going to get a huge uplift in development between now and draft day!!!

West Coast and Freo have a stack of high end NGA kids coming through. Freo not as many but at the very top of the WA talent pool, West Coast have more kids in the second tier of the WA talent pool.

 

[irel]

I'm ok with it. Essentially the logic is that if clubs don't have any incentive to develop players from underprivileged backgrounds... They won't.

I never realised that someone with a South African dad and an Australian mum is underprivileged.
.

 

[beatnik]

I never realised that someone with a South African dad and an Australian mum is underprivileged.
.

You’re pointing with a very broad brush there….what’s the point you’re trying to make?