List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

Prediction- Who is delisted this year(not retirements).

  • Berry

  • McCluggage

  • Lyons

  • McCarthy

  • Answerth

  • Lane

  • Prior

  • Madden

  • Lester

  • Joyce

  • Zorko

  • Michael

  • Brain

  • Reville

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spotthedog1 said:
AFL standard Key Forwards on our list:
Hipwood
Morris

AFL standard Key Backs on our list:
Andrews
Payne
Lester
Doedee
Gardiner

Only counting players ready to go next year. Given that imbalance, I think someone on that Key Back list will be pre-season training with the other group.
Click to expand...
Direct depth for Payne or Andrews I feel is only Darragh Joyce IMO... ZZ not ready yet.

Lester, Doedee, Gardiner are more 3rd tall options although all 3 at a pinch could fill in as number 1-2 key defence to a reasonable degree for a short time if absolutely necessary to play on the likes of McKay, Hogan, Darcy, JUH, Kingx2, Larkey.

Agree if Hipwood and/or Morris went down we are in strife(lot of dependence on a 2nd year KPF in 2025), hopefully my assessment of him is wrong and Henry Smith can improve again over the pre season and step up as a KPF.
 
M Malice said:
Direct depth for Payne or Andrews I feel is only Darragh Joyce IMO... ZZ not ready yet.

Lester, Doedee, Gardiner are more 3rd tall options although all 3 at a pinch could fill in as number 1-2 key defence to a reasonable degree for a short time if absolutely necessary to play on the likes of McKay, Hogan, Darcy, JUH, Kingx2, Larkey.

Agree if Hipwood and/or Morris went down we are in strife(lot of dependence on a 2nd year KPF in 2025), hopefully my assessment of him is wrong and Henry Smith can improve again over the pre season and step up as a KPF.
Click to expand...
Henry should benefit greatly from this preseason and being made to feel he belongs will be key, but suspect ruck will be his forte, maybe he rucks 50% and Oscar plays deep forward? O will draw a lot of arm chops standing under a high ball.
 

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In Fagan we trust. During Henry Smith's exit interview Fagan in his fatherly way says, "Henry, my boy, have a good holiday, be responsible, when you come back your - our man" Fagan makes little rabbit ears with his hands in the air. "We are putting our eggs in your basket you have shown us enough and I believe in you". "Here is your training plan, here is a video of how we want you to play - I believe in you"

Come pre-season after Christmas, when Smith has trained for a couple of months with the 'probables' in the key role it starts to click. Every session it is Andrews and Payne marking up on Smith and the team learns some new running patters to supply him and Smith learns how to bring it to ground against the best defenders.

Fagan's confidence is infectious in smith and the team, Fagan knows he cant replace Joe and 'stays fat' with smith and by mid-year we have an AFL standard ruck/forward, not a 'Joe' but one that is not easily beaten and one that Loman and Charlie are feasting off the scraps from. Fagan know he cant continually 'buy' readymade, like he had to do in 2024 he has evolved the list.
 
Really like Max Gawn's thoughts in the media, interesting that he sees the Lions and Pies as the Demons biggest rivals.
 
I have been thinking through the Daniher Dilemma a fair bit. I really think that the answer is from within and I think it comes down to a very slight game plan adjustment.

Pre-Joe, we played really good footy with two tall forwards and two rucks. Stef Martin was the dominant ruck and Oscar played chop out minutes. One of the two forwards was a talented, if somewhat inconsistent, mature player in McStay. The other was a gifted youngster in Eric. In Eric and Morris, we've got similar now.

Back then, we played a game style that relied heavily on an aerial contest. We all remember those long bombs down the wing where the main object was to create a stoppage. Mostly it would work but we got killed when it didn't. We needed aerial presence to compete and we didn't always have it so we went and got Joe.

But we've set up completely differently over the next 5-6 years. We now seem to actively avoid those long kicks to a waiting pack, where competing height is integral. We are elite by foot and prefer to retain possession. When we do kick to a contest, we try and target one on ones where our guy is aerially superior to his opponent.

So, what we now require of a tall forward is completely different to what we needed in 2020, when we went after Joe. We need forward presence when we do have to kick in long into 50, we need players to lead up and provide options, and we need a second ruck.

I'm not sure though that all of that requires us to get to the nearest approximation to Joe. I think the opportunity is there to look at our game plan and find one or two complementary pieces rather than necessarily look for an understudy. The mandatories for me are (a) ruck minutes and (b) an aerial presence inside forward 50. Everything else Joe brought to the table can be covered by existing personnel expanding their roles - the leading up, the mobility, the goals.

In the absence of a perfect Joe replacement, I think that our game plan now would be suited to one of two options. Either we play a second ruck who doesn't cost us too much defensively or at ground level (Smith) or we play another marking option (Gardiner, Lloyd, Rayner repurposed) and find ruck minutes elsewhere.

We don't need a unicorn - just a good horse will do.
 
spotthedog1 said:
AFL standard Key Forwards on our list:
Hipwood
Morris

AFL standard Key Backs on our list:
Andrews
Payne
Lester
Doedee
Gardiner

Only counting players ready to go next year. Given that imbalance, I think someone on that Key Back list will be pre-season training with the other group.
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t call Lester, Doedee or Morris KPPs. But Joyce would be borderline AFL quality
 
It is looking like Hippy will be the number 1 KPF, Smith 2nd KPF and relief ruck, Morris 3rd KPF. Perhaps a KPF cover will be picked up as Dom has suggested - from the names thrown around here. Fort will be here to end of 2025 so will probably continue to be the emergency ruck. Job done, move onto 2025.
 
M Malice said:
Really like Max Gawn's thoughts in the media, interesting that he sees the Lions and Pies as the Demons biggest rivals.
Click to expand...

We’ve had some absolute cracker games recently and us causing their straight sets exit the year after their flag probably did a lot.
 

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Nuggo said:
It is looking like Hippy will be the number 1 KPF, Smith 2nd KPF and relief ruck, Morris 3rd KPF. Perhaps a KPF cover will be picked up as Dom has suggested - from the names thrown around here. Fort will be here to end of 2025 so will probably continue to be the emergency ruck. Job done, move onto 2025.
Click to expand...

Nah, I can see us still bringing a Tabener/Casboult in etc.
 
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