List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[SurreyBlue]

Our midfield is stacked with big bodies who are not great runners, quick or agile and we are about to double down on this by adding B Campo and Lord, appreciate they are more balanced then some of the above, but you get the drift. Given the above depth and those mentioned who are incoming I’d be in favour of offloading one of Kennedy or Hewitt, particularly given Doc will be back next year and can also play this role. Kennedy or Hewitt would surely net us a second rounder and I’d be in favour of packaging this up to get another first round pick in.

Also, I would LOVE to see Kemp and JSOS flip roles next year. I feel jacks traits suit the back line more and that Kemp would literally be the perfect 3rd mobile tall.

We'd be crazy to trade Kennedy.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Young’s issue is a lack of competitiveness/aggression/desire, not slow ball movement.

He takes ages to dispose of the ball after he takes a mark and his kicks takes ages getting to its intended target.

Both these things stop any chance of quick ball movement making it easier for the opposition to defend when we have the ball.

Couple that with his lack of aggression, competitiveness and desire, and he is almost unplayable in the backline.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Pace effects this though.
Which player has the better disposal and/or decision making? The one kicking to TDK, or the one kicking to Pitto?

Pace means you can find space more easily, but also cover a not so good kick. It means you can find an extra split second to avoid some pressure to make a better decision, or a better disposal. And likewise, you can be a fraction of a second quicker to put pressure on the oppo.

Yet that extra 0.2 or 0.3 seconds of 'pace' is easily dwarfed by anticipation and awareness....

Our blokes seem to have lost the ability to think clearly and quickly.

In short, they look confused....

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

He takes ages to dispose of the ball after he takes a mark and his kicks takes ages getting to its intended target.

Both these things stop any chance of quick ball movement making it easier for the opposition to defend when we have the ball.

Couple that with his lack of aggression, competitiveness and desire, and he is almost unplayable in the backline.

he's not Robinson Crusoe!

 

[Revenant1965]

For me, there are 4 sets of questions re our List.
1) What needs to be done to maximise our chances for Premiership in the 'now'? (i.e., next 2 or 3 years)
2) What needs to be done for best chance of Premiership until Cripps retires? (i.e., look at list without Newman, Docherty, Saad, Williams, Martin)
3) What plans (i.e., draft picks in the now and next years) need to be taken into account for gen-next (say from around C.Curnow and S.Walsh age and under)?
4) How is the above best managed? Do we go 'all in' on #1 (maybe with consideration of #2, being willing to trade out early picks for players), or is there a more balanced approach (and keeping early picks)?

For reference, players ages as now is below:
N Newman 31yr 6mth 15 Jan 1993
S Docherty 30yr 9mth 17 Oct 1993
A Saad 30yr 23 Jul 1994
Z Williams 29yr 10mth 20 Sep 1994
M McGovern 29yr 10mth 11 Oct 1994
J Martin 29yr 6mth 29 Jan 1995
P Cripps 29yr 4mth 18 Mar 1995
O Fantasia 28yr 11mth 14 Sep 1995
B Acres 28yr 10mth 7 Oct 1995
G Hewett 28yr 7mth 29 Dec 1995
M Pittonet 28yr 2mth 3 Jun 1996
S Durdin 28yr 2mth 6 Jun 1996
C Marchbank 27yr 8mth 7 Dec 1996
A Cincotta 27yr 7mth 17 Dec 1996
C Curnow 27yr 6mth 3 Feb 1997
M Owies 27yr 4mth 19 Mar 1997
D Cuningham 27yr 4mth 30 Mar 1997
M Kennedy 27yr 4mth 6 Apr 1997
J Weitering 26yr 8mth 23 Nov 1997
J Silvagni 26yr 7mth 17 Dec 1997
H McKay 26yr 7mth 24 Dec 1997
J Boyd 25yr 10mth 22 Sep 1998
L Young 25yr 7mth 20 Dec 1998
L Fogarty 25yr 4mth 1 Apr 1999
T De Koning 25yr 16 Jul 1999
A Cerra 24yr 10mth 7 Oct 1999
A Mirkov 24yr 8mth 17 Nov 1999
M Cottrell 24yr 5mth 29 Feb 2000
S Walsh 24yr 1mth 2 Jul 2000
B Kemp 23yr 3mth 1 May 2001
C Durdin 22yr 4mth 14 Apr 2002
E Hollands 22yr 3mth 25 Apr 2002
D Akuei 22yr 3mth 12 May 2002
J Carroll 21yr 7mth 20 Dec 2002
J Motlop 20yr 8mth 23 Nov 2003
O Hollands 20yr 6mth 16 Jan 2004
H Lemmey 20yr 6mth 30 Jan 2004
R Monahan 20yr 1mth 29 Jun 2004
J Binns 19yr 9mth 29 Oct 2004
L Cowan 19yr 8mth 1 Dec 2004
H O'Keeffe 19yr 7mth 16 Dec 2004
C Lord 19yr 4mth 20 Mar 2005
A Moir 19yr 3mth 15 Apr 2005
B Wilson 19yr 1mth 16 Jun 2005
M Carroll 18yr 8mth 28 Nov

 

[bigm386]

Not sure if I am just having a brain fade but is Jordan Boyd and Cincotta still on the rookie list and both will need to be elevated this off season?

I am hoping that isn't correct because if we are planning on bringing in 4 players that means delisting at least 6. Plus we are carrying at least 1 extra because of the LTI's to JSOS and Doc.

Does anyone know?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I think it's both - if you watch him when he takes a mark it takes him like 10 seconds to get back on his mark and then another 10 seconds to dispose of the ball. Needs to either handball it straight away to a runner (directive from the coaches)or just kick it long earlier (as that is where it's going anyway).

You wouldn't think it would be too hard for coaches to direct players running past, to demand Young moves the ball on rapidly by hand?

On every occasion.

 

[Coona Blues]

Not sure if I am just having a brain fade but is Jordan Boyd and Cincotta still on the rookie list and both will need to be elevated this off season?

I am hoping that isn't correct because if we are planning on bringing in 4 players that means delisting at least 6. Plus we are carrying at least 1 extra because of the LTI's to JSOS and Doc.

Does anyone know?

Boyd needs upgrade. Cinc only in his second year, so has another on rookie list.

 

[sweethoney]

Not sure if I am just having a brain fade but is Jordan Boyd and Cincotta still on the rookie list and both will need to be elevated this off season?

I am hoping that isn't correct because if we are planning on bringing in 4 players that means delisting at least 6. Plus we are carrying at least 1 extra because of the LTI's to JSOS and Doc.

Does anyone know?

Can stay on the rookie list for 5 years now

 

[Coona Blues]

Can stay on the rookie list for 5 years now

Not strictly speaking. Is subject to games numbers. Boyd and Cinc would both need upgrade, this year and next respectively. The advantage for us is blokes like S.Durdin, H.O’Keeffe, A. Mirkov, maybe D.Akuei if it applies to Cat B as well. Is meant to allow rucks and KPP the 3 year plus window to develop should they be “slow burn”. Likely to help with HOK, not sure if it will save the others when the cuts come.

There was a threshold number floated, but not sure if is locked in yet. Would be somewhere between 10 and 20 games over the three years

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Do we see any of the Category B’s making it?

Mirkov is not performing to half the ability of Nick Bryan who has been kept out of the side by a 50 year old Todd Goldstein

17

Todd Goldstein

Age

36

Ht

201cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

7.5

5star

CL

3.1

5star

HO

32.5

5star

D

16.7

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

7.4

4star

CL

7.0

5star

HO

32.9

5star

D

5.2

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.6

3star

HO

10.0

5star

 

[tarczonandjane]

I apologise for overlooking it. But I’ve been back through the thread, and can’t see where the Luke Parker

26

Luke Parker

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.2

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.8

5star

D

22.1

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

9.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.5

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

8.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

discussion came from. Is it a rumour? Or just speculation on a player who might suit our needs?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I apologise for overlooking it. But I’ve been back through the thread, and can’t see where the Luke Parker discussion came from. Is it a rumour? Or just speculation on a player who might suit our needs?

Sydney star reportedly "open to exploring a move" to new club: AFL trade news

The Swans gun is contracted beyond this year.

www.zerohanger.com

 

[Wickzki]

Sydney star reportedly "open to exploring a move" to new club: AFL trade news

The Swans gun is contracted beyond this year.

www.zerohanger.com

What forward role would you put him in ODN?

The way we play the most likely spot for him would be in the Fogarty role.

 

[Stamos]

Not strictly speaking. Is subject to games numbers. Boyd and Cinc would both need upgrade, this year and next respectively. The advantage for us is blokes like S.Durdin, H.O’Keeffe, A. Mirkov, maybe D.Akuei if it applies to Cat B as well. Is meant to allow rucks and KPP the 3 year plus window to develop should they be “slow burn”. Likely to help with HOK, not sure if it will save the others when the cuts come.

There was a threshold number floated, but not sure if is locked in yet. Would be somewhere between 10 and 20 games over the three years

10 games

 

[Stamos]

Yet that extra 0.2 or 0.3 seconds of 'pace' is easily dwarfed by anticipation and awareness....

Our blokes seem to have lost the ability to think clearly and quickly.

In short, they look confused....

Sure, but pace makes everything easier. Oppo pace makes everything harder.

It’s not that we can’t win with a slow midfield with the likes of Pitto/Cripps/Hewett/Kennedy, or 2 rucks. They’ve won plenty of games, and beaten up on good teams (eg the Giants earlier this year).

BUT

When it doesn’t work, we get opened up because we’re too slow.
When we’re not entirely on song, we’re extremely vulnerable because of that lack of pace. It’s too much of a gamble.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Sure, but pace makes everything easier. Oppo pace makes everything harder.

It’s not that we can’t win with a slow midfield with the likes of Pitto/Cripps/Hewett/Kennedy, or 2 rucks. They’ve won plenty of games, and beaten up on good teams (eg the Giants earlier this year).

BUT

When it doesn’t work, we get opened up because we’re too slow.
When we’re not entirely on song, we’re extremely vulnerable because of that lack of pace. It’s too much of a gamble.

I'm not disagreeing per se, just I consider it's a minor issue in the scheme of things...

Cripps ran a 3.11 I think for the 20m in his draft and he's faster now imo.

Is that slow if he anticipates well?

Bigger issues:

1. Crappy ball use:
a. missing targets by foot 20m away on perfect days.
b. missing handball targets 5m away.
c. taking the wrong option repeatedly e.g. don't handball to a guy who's flat footed and has an opponent right next to him!
d. delivery inside 50 - too slow, too predictable... kicking it on Harry or Charlie's head when that player has three defenders in his vicinity - choose another bloody option! (the need for a legitimate 3rd tall who stays on the park).
e. the kick in after a point - I've seen U10 teams do it better than us....

 

[bigm386]

Do we see any of the Category B’s making it?

Mirkov is not performing to half the ability of Nick Bryan who has been kept out of the side by a 50 year old Todd Goldstein

Akuei is a good athelete but still struggling skills wise. Might be worth persisting for a year.

Mirkov just doesn't have the tank. I don't see him making it.

 

[Jatz]

What forward role would you put him in ODN?

The way we play the most likely spot for him would be in the Fogarty role.

He's an upgrade on Fogarty and can still hit the midfield as required.

I don't know how we afford him etc but I'm very ok with it if we can make it happen.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I started making a list of 1st round picks from last years draft, to show that the majority of first round picks will have little to no impact on us achieving success.
The list excludes Reid, Mckercher and Duursma who were 3 of the top 4, picks we won’t have access to.

Regardless of how good the kid you like looks in the champs or at U18 level or how good they might be in 2-3 years, if you think we are in our window now, then I don’t see them addressing any holes in our list next year.

That’s not to say don’t pick in the first round but I’d hate to see us use all our currency on kids, which would need to happen to take two top 15 picks.

Curtain 5 games
Walter 5 games
Read 4 games
Caddy 8 games
Osulivan 1 game
Gothard 0
Croft 0
Green 0
Leake 0
McCabe 0
Hardeman 0
Goad 0
Dawson 0
Cleary 2
Edwards 0
Di Mattia 0
Collard 3
McCabe 0
Moir 0

Last year was a shit draft though.

Not sure about this years.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

What forward role would you put him in ODN?

The way we play the most likely spot for him would be in the Fogarty role.

Would love to see him in the Jack Martin role. Obviously different types of players, but lead up forwards who are good at ground level and can work up the ground to impact the contest.

No idea if it's feasible but would love to get him in as a veteran presence, plus I think his forward craft is very underrated.

 

[Coops93]

Saady made all Australian last year didn't he?
Can't be all that bad....

On CPH2135 using BigFooty.com mobile app

This yr I feel he's struggled. Health and impact both way down.

The footage of his defensive efforts in the last month or so are pretty damning.

 

[Coops93]

I'm not disagreeing per se, just I consider it's a minor issue in the scheme of things...

Cripps ran a 3.11 I think for the 20m in his draft and he's faster now imo.

Is that slow if he anticipates well?

Bigger issues:

1. Crappy ball use:
a. missing targets by foot 20m away on perfect days.
b. missing handball targets 5m away.
c. taking the wrong option repeatedly e.g. don't handball to a guy who's flat footed and has an opponent right next to him!
d. delivery inside 50 - too slow, too predictable... kicking it on Harry or Charlie's head when that player has three defenders in his vicinity - choose another bloody option! (the need for a legitimate 3rd tall who stays on the park).
e. the kick in after a point - I've seen U10 teams do it better than us....

Yes and no. You need both, it's not a case of either or.

Cripps gets run off defensively weekly, every team plans for it. We plan to cover it. In fact all our mids get run off, aside from Walsh. Similarly, our mids struggle to find space outside the initial contest, again Walsh aside. Cripps can run from inside to out with his power but doesn't separate. Kennedy and Hewett as soon as the balls out they're useless. That's not anticipation that's physical limitation.


I dont see how anyone could debate that foot speed isn't one of our biggest issues. We get run off every game and struggle to run forward and have done for 5 yrs. It's not a secret, teams always know their best chance to win the contest and get on the spread, not clear it by foot to the next contest.

 

[Prem17]

He's an upgrade on Fogarty and can still hit the midfield as required.

I don't know how we afford him etc but I'm very ok with it if we can make it happen.

Also adds a hard edge that we desperately need.

 

[Prem17]

Parker and Haynes into the side next year instantly improves us, regardless of other trade/free agency moves.
Age isn't a concern but improving our disposal and goal kicking is, and both players tick those respective boxes.
If those moves haven't already been investigated behind the scenes then I'd be disappointed with the club.