List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[macky99]

Hard pass.

I’d do it for Curnow though.

Absolutely ridiculous

 

[macky99]

Completely disagree.

We are in a win now mode. Petracca helps us do that. Whether he's 25 or 29, we need to win a premiership now while Cripps is still able to be the bull he is.

Sorry one player is not going to be the difference, with your approach no guarantees of winning a premiership and we will fall off the cliff very quickly.

Some people here are still living in the old Carlton way of buying a premiership, need to put work into building a list.
l don't see the net gain of giving away a 1st round pick & a quality player makes us better.

 

[HaydossJ]

More than happy to trade McKay for petracca. Similar ages and petracca is the type of player we need

Insane post

 

[Accidental genius]

Sorry one player is not going to be the difference, with your approach no guarantees of winning a premiership and we will fall off the cliff very quickly.

Some people here are still living in the old Carlton way of buying a premiership, need to put work into building a list.
l don't see the net gain of giving away a 1st round pick & a quality player makes us better.

Agree - just imagine the pressure on petracca if a deal like that was done. I mean he is good but still giving up 3x1st rounders and a player is to say the very least...ridiculous

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Our midfield is a conundrum. There is some real talent but I struggle with how we use it and the MIX

Cripps is a Star
Kennedy and Hewett are very good workers. Give their all
Cerra has ability and is a bit quicker but injuries a concern
Walsh is a star because of workrate but not what I would call damaging
Carroll is a bit of the same. Worker and solid but not a point of difference
All good players but there is sameness and predictability about this group

The next level

Lord. Looks great to me and his skills are sublime. Not quick, but has time, but not slow especially the way he uses it.
Elijah. Genuine X factor and star. Needs another pre season and become a 4 quarter player. If he does he makes a big difference
Docherty. Another star but coming back from knee and is 31. HB may better better for him and us?

Others that could make a difference

Motlop/Durdin. Need a pre season and get over injuries. Ability and leg speed is there
Kemp. SOS recruited him as a mid. Smart and good ball user and good defensively
Wilson. Starting at HB but is calm, good ball user and has genuine leg speed. Seen as a future mid. Should play in 2025
Charlie. With development of others he can play midfield minutes that make a difference. Would scare an opposition. Better version of Stringer on ball in bursts
Cincotta. Big body, good leg speed, tough and a good ball user. IMO be should be used better and more around ball
Cowan. Had a run in mid at VFL level and looked very good. Small sample but is big, tough and a good kick

I am a big believer in maxmising what you have before going outside. IMO the growth and changes of last two weeks show this

There is some gun mids in this draft. I hope that is our focus along with a Sheldrick or Garcia type as a cheap trade BUT we have the talent if we use it properly

Isn't Elijah one of the top 3 runners at the club? With his brother and Cottrell?

Or maybe that's only over the shorter distances 2km, and he needs to build a 15km tank?

 

[Y Goat]

So if we are going for a mature kpp who would you take out of Nick Haynes or Sam Day

Did you see GWS v WB yesterday?
(Clearly not, as the answer is there)


TLDR - Haynes had a v. poor game, cost them a bit in that game - not best 23 for them, nor suitable backup for us, and we’d be going backwards by acquiring. Need backup but look elsewhere. (Edit: No disrespect to the guy, been a very good player, and unless it was a one-off/bit-injured, LM team would be going backwards)

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Curnow has been playing poorly on a bung ankle. Falling over constantly, playing behind his opponent demanding his teammates kick the ball 70m+ so he push them off and run back into goal. He's not tradable when he's fit.

 

[blues4flag]

lol… good luck upgrading on these guns.

All required players and best 18.

Gotta give something to get something. If we've identified clear needs such as another quality KPD or speed around the ground, how do we get them?

Very hesitant to trade McKay - my preference would be exploring him at CHB. Very strongly believe that two premier KPD is far more important two KPFs, and McKay and Weitering could be the best combo in the comp.

We've seen teams do very well with more mobile forward lines (Hawks exhibit A). Charlie, Williams, Moir, Kemp (?), Motlop, Durdin gives us a lot to work with.

Owies again, solid player but we'd definitely be selling high. Wasn't impressed at all with the backend of his season last year. Good in low stakes games but goes to ground far too easily and weak one on one. Can't see him being a factor in finals pressure.

Hewett's in arguably career best form, and there'd be clubs who'd love to have him. Wouldn't give him up for cheap but we've got a surplus here a dearth elsewhere. Can help fill that void.

As for McGovern, he's not getting younger, he's still injury prone and he's very much a confidence player. Very important atm but if we can get a replacement in I'd be open to it.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

So if we are going for a mature kpp who would you take out of Nick Haynes or Sam Day

I would like to believe the rumour that Leek Aleer is the priority.

 

[CoachB]

Best top 10 player when fit, last year is an example of the talent he has, the hamstring problems are a little worrying this year but hopefully the club can sort it out so he can get back to his best form…

I like Cerra as a player and his upside is high, but when he came back into the team the match committee bumped Hewitt, which IMHO was a mistake as the loose ball got out far too easily. I don't think the balance of Cripps Walsh and Cerra works as it puts too much pressure on the backline when we lose the ball. Not quite sure about the answer but Hewitt is way underated and we look much better when he is in the middle.

CB

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Melbourne would want Harry or Charlie for Petracca and rightly so. Carlton won’t part ways with either and rightly so.

Next to no chance Petracca will be at Carlton next year imo

 

[CoachB]

Wonder if Freo are still interested in Motlop? I'd do it for a second rounder

I think we are being harsh on Motlop, the kid knows where the goals are.. has, like many been stuffed around by our supposed "high" performance team. Did ok for the amount of football he missed.

 

[DangerousD]

Does the "can't trade future first + later rounds" rule still exist? If so, that would necessitate us bringing in another future second rounder before we could move our future first into this draft.

Assuming Owies gets us a 2nd

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I think we are being harsh on Motlop, the kid knows where the goals are.. has, like many been stuffed around by our supposed "high" performance team. Did ok for the amount of football he missed.

Slow, poor defensively and barely better than Owies below his knees. Deadset reckon he needs to lose about 6-7kgs over the pre season if he wants to make a name for himself in the AFL world

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Absolutely ridiculous

Actually, if either were to be traded for some reason, I'd prefer if it were Curnow.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Melbourne would want Harry or Charlie for Petracca and rightly so. Carlton won’t part ways with either and rightly so.

Next to no chance Petracca will be at Carlton next year imo

Big name player for player swaps simply don't happen like that.

If, and it's a huge IF, we were able to convince Petracca to come over, we'd be giving up picks and maybe a peripheral player with upside, and Melbourne would be taking the cap space and picks to Richmond for Tom Lynch.

You'd be talking something like our first rounders this year and next, for Petracca. Might need to throw in a Corey Durdin or Jack Carroll type, with another later pick coming back our way. Then Melbourne flip one of those picks for Tom Lynch, and take the other to the draft for a young KPF to develop behind him.

Likewise, if we're trading Harry (which I firmly doubt is on the cards at all), it's not going to be for a 29yo midfielder coming off some horrendous internal injuries. Too much risk there, and all we'd be doing is adding to the current overstocking of inside mid types we're struggling to balance. I know Petracca is a bit more explosive, for sure, but if he comes in we're squeezing a Hewett or Cerra out of the starting lineup, and having to patch a gaping hole up forward with minimal cap space. If Harry were to go, I think it would be to free up some money to target 2 solid A-minus types in areas of need (including a second KPF) rather than one A+ player, and at that point we're shuffling deck chairs rather than appreciably improving the list.

Better option by far, if we think Harry is in any way surplus to requirements up forward (doubtful), is (as others have suggested) to swing him back. Weiters, McKay and Gov down back, with Charlie, Kemp and JSOS/Moir up forward is certainly worth entertaining if we can't bring in someone like Leek Aleer this off season. Then our draft picks are used exclusively on kids with speed.

 

[DangerousD]

But can we get those two and a KPD option without using our first this year? Not so sure.

I really like all our mids, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy... All fantastic players imo. But it's been clear for a few years now that we just can't play them all as the primary midfield mix due to their lack of spread and closing speed.

In my opinion one has to be traded for the sake of our list, which that will be is anyones guess.

That's just my take on things.

I don’t mind that view, the issue I have with the idea is, it only works if the player you bring in, is of equal quality.

I’m still not convinced we need to trade one of the mentioned players either, depth and competition for spots is vital.

If we want any chance of getting Houston, it will cost at least our first this year.

I don’t watch much of Freo so I’m only going off stats, but I’m not giving much for another forward who doesn’t kick goals and doesn’t find much of the football.

We desperately need another KPD, so if we trade one in or not, we will still need to use the draft capital on one. I’m not sure if the Giants evaluation of Aleer but our F1 with their F2 coming back, allows us to target other needs.

I’d be having a chat with Peatling from GWS as a low cost addition to the midfield mix.

 

[DangerousD]

Our first pick will be lucky to be in the top 20 once all the academy picks come in.

There not many in the first round and a few will come before their teams first pick, pushing them out of the round.

GC will get a pick before Lombard
* will get a pick before Kako
But Brisbane won’t get a pick before Ashcroft.

It looks to be a lot easier this year.

 

[DangerousD]

So if we are going for a mature kpp who would you take out of Nick Haynes or Sam Day

Day can’t get in the park, Haynes is being overlooked.

We can’t pick players who can’t play

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I don’t mind that view, the issue I have with the idea is, it only works if the player you bring in, is of equal quality.

I’m still not convinced we need to trade one of the mentioned players either, depth and competition for spots is vital.

If we want any chance of getting Houston, it will cost at least our first this year.

I don’t watch much of Freo so I’m only going off stats, but I’m not giving much for another forward who doesn’t kick goals and doesn’t find much of the football.

We desperately need another KPD, so if we trade one in or not, we will still need to use the draft capital on one. I’m not sure if the Giants evaluation of Aleer but our F1 with their F2 coming back, allows us to target other needs.

I’d be having a chat with Peatling from GWS as a low cost addition to the midfield mix.

Switkowski is basically just a 2nd Fog with a bit more pace, what we'd like Durdin to be essentially. He creates goals for his team.

That what I think our best way of solving our midfield issues is, by having effective half forwards who can run up to the contest and burn their opponents on the way back, having a 2nd Fog will help with that.

The team would have to back in that Mckay, Curnow, Moir, Williams and the other more specialized goal kickers will get the job done in a less cramped forward line with the half forwards working in the 60-80m from goal range to create up the field.

 

[DangerousD]

Sorry one player is not going to be the difference, with your approach no guarantees of winning a premiership and we will fall off the cliff very quickly.

Some people here are still living in the old Carlton way of buying a premiership, need to put work into building a list.
l don't see the net gain of giving away a 1st round pick & a quality player makes us better.

Depending on the player, if Petracca is a big upgrade then losing a first round pick isn’t a big deal.

1/3 or more of the first round picks will be a failure anyway.

Can you imagine the uproar if we traded pick 3 and 10 for Blake Acres, yet he’s better than the players we took with those picks, geez even add pick 6 to that and the experienced player is still better.

We could trade 3 first rounders to Melb for Petracca and the likely hood any of them will contribute more than he would in the next 4 years would be small.

 

[DangerousD]

Switkowski is basically just a 2nd Fog with a bit more pace, what we'd like Durdin to be essentially. He creates goals for his team.

That what I think our best way of solving our midfield issues is, by having effective half forwards who can run up to the contest and burn their opponents on the way back, having a 2nd Fog will help with that.

The team would have to back in that Mckay, Curnow, Moir, Williams and the other more specialized goal kickers will get the job done in a less cramped forward line with the half forwards working in the 60-80m from goal range to create up the field.

I feel there is a tipping point to the amount of players you can have who either don’t get the ball much and don’t kick goals.

When they play well, you look great but mostly they put pressure on others to carry the load when they don’t play above their average level.

The difference between Durdins good games and bad is huge, same with Cotts, Fog, Fantasia.

Players like Switkowski if targeted to play a role are good pick ups as they’re cheap, I’m not sure how much he’d improve our side though.

 

[Jatz]

Sorry one player is not going to be the difference, with your approach no guarantees of winning a premiership and we will fall off the cliff very quickly.

Some people here are still living in the old Carlton way of buying a premiership, need to put work into building a list.
l don't see the net gain of giving away a 1st round pick & a quality player makes us better.

Not on their own but one superstar added to our very talented roster can be the difference.

We are going to fall off that cliff quickly whether you like it or not. The second Cripps stops taking the battering he's dealt with over the last decade, our midfield is going to sink very quickly.

 

[ray8182]

The draft is wildly overrated gamble that I hope we never embark on again.

You’ve got to be really shit for a really long time to accumulate enough players for 1/3 of them to turn into good footballers.

And then there’s no guarantee that it amounts to anything.

I’d rather we adopt the Geelong approach, never bother with early picks, endlessly top up with mature age talent, and be competitive every year.

Seems a lot more enjoyable than this rollercoaster we’ve been on for two decades.

The worse you are at drafting the more the draft is a poor option. We just need to be better.

Hawthorn have rebuilt through the draft and recently with trades.

Geelong have been incredibly good with there picks in recent years. Sam dekoning and max holmes with picks around 20. Plus some other excellent selections later on like Dempsey.

It’s clearly a mix. You have to be good at both trading and drafting and sometimes clubs have no option but to rebuild.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[El Topo]

I think we are being harsh on Motlop, the kid knows where the goals are.. has, like many been stuffed around by our supposed "high" performance team. Did ok for the amount of football he missed.

I see his old man on the field - skilful with the ball but the modern player needs more than that