List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[HereComesJuddy]

Who’s this years Grundy, Treloar, Adam’s?

Any Bowes deals on the horizon?

Any Jai Caldwell or Tanner Bruhn types homesick and looking to move?

We can still trade away top picks and get young talent.

Conor Stone is my guy. Think we should definitely chase him.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Conor Stone is my guy. Think we should definitely chase him.

Depends very much on what the plan is for Kemp.

I'd rather target a KPD, play Kemp as a third tall forward, and leave that Stone unturned. If we can't find a KPD and intend to move Kemp back into the backline next year, then happy to look at Stone for a forward role though.

 

[ray8182]

I don’t know if anyone watched first crack but there was a very interesting segment about the umpires throwing up the ball quicker at stoppages. Instead of it taking 10-15 seconds it was thrown up in half the time.

This is currently having a significant impact on the game;
1. Reduces the number of players around the ball at stoppages.
2. Teams less organised with structure around the ball.
3. Ball gets into the open quicker.

Hawthorn has been on a winning run since this change was made mid year.

The game is now being played more and more outside the contest. I think it’s affecting list management the following ways;

1. Inside midfielders don’t control the game as much as the ball spends more time outside clearances.
2. Quick agile players who are first to loose ground ball are more valuable as there is space to breakaway.
3. Players need to have a good speed endurance combination to keep up with ball movement. Slowish players might be ok when then they have the ball but are being left behind without the ball.

I think we have to adjust the values we are putting on different types of players. We could be left behind if we continue to value players who can’t keep up with a more fluid game. It’s only going to put a sharper focus on the likes of Kennedy and Hewitt who are good footballers with the ball but how do they cope with transition without the ball.

Hawthorn are a must watch now. Will there game hold up in finals. The are almost the opposite of Carlton. They have relatively poor key position players but a whole lot of medium small runners.

I think every club is reassessing their list strategy right now.


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[Earls Smother]

I don’t know if anyone watched first crack but there was a very interesting segment about the umpires throwing up the ball quicker at stoppages. Instead of it taking 10-15 seconds it was thrown up in half the time.

This is currently having a significant impact on the game;
1. Reduces the number of players around the ball at stoppages.
2. Teams less organised with structure around the ball.
3. Ball gets into the open quicker.

Hawthorn has been on a winning run since this change was made mid year.

The game is now being played more and more outside the contest. I think it’s affecting list management the following ways;

1. Inside midfielders don’t control the game as much as the ball spends more time outside clearances.
2. Quick agile players who are first to loose ground ball are more valuable as there is space to breakaway.
3. Players need to have a good speed endurance combination to keep up with ball movement. Slowish players might be ok when then they have the ball but are being left behind without the ball.

I think we have to adjust the values we are putting on different types of players. We could be left behind if we continue to value players who can’t keep up with a more fluid game. It’s only going to put a sharper focus on the likes of Kennedy and Hewitt who are good footballers with the ball but how do they cope with transition without the ball.

Hawthorn are a must watch now. Will there game hold up in finals. The are almost the opposite of Carlton. They have relatively poor key position players but a whole lot of medium small runners.

I think every club is reassessing their list strategy right now.


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The change in the HTB interpretation has also worked against us. The inside mids get less time to distribute.

There is no doubt we are unbalanced with our mix of mids. People here complain every time a Hewett or Kennedy is made sub or left out, but we are forced to try something to avoid being run off our feet.

The Dow and SPS misses in particular have really hurt.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

The worse you are at drafting the more the draft is a poor option. We just need to be better.

Hawthorn have rebuilt through the draft and recently with trades.

Geelong have been incredibly good with there picks in recent years. Sam dekoning and max holmes with picks around 20. Plus some other excellent selections later on like Dempsey.

It’s clearly a mix. You have to be good at both trading and drafting and sometimes clubs have no option but to rebuild.


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Yeah, I don't understand the logic. It's all a part of the effort to be a good side and, believe it or not, our current push is largely on the back of drafted players.

 

[Blue1980]

Completely disagree.

We are in a win now mode. Petracca helps us do that. Whether he's 25 or 29, we need to win a premiership now while Cripps is still able to be the bull he is.

The idea that McKay doesn't help us win now is absurd. Give up a coleman medalist for a 29 year old who has just had almost life threatening injuries who may never be the same again.

Idiotic and it won't happen. Has any credible rumour come out about any of this or just media/fan speculation.

Harry was having a super year until the concussion/mystery virus of the North game.

 

[Blue1980]

Owies not being offered a contract clearly means he's not considered required. I'd have no qualms replacing him, limited footballer.

He might be limited, but small forwards who kick 30+ goals in a season aren't exactly common. Not like we have anyone else who does it, regardless of what you think of their upside or how they'd go in an injury free season.

Owies has done it and has proven himself to be physically durable. I reckon he stays, but not on overly much money.

 

[Blue1980]

So if we are going for a mature kpp who would you take out of Nick Haynes or Sam Day

Sam Day, Haynes isn't KPP. Whoever got the idea he was?

 

[Blue1980]

Yeah our development of Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Docherty, Newman, Kennedy, Fogarty, Boyd etc has really sucked!

Put TDK in there too. I think Ollie is coming along nicely too. Owies we turned from nothing into a 30+ goals in a season small forward.

Not saying our development has been perfect, but people talk in extremes. Like if our development isn't awesome, it must be total garbage.

 

[Blue1980]

I am huge critic of Austin. I still think his total list management is flawed but at least there some light with drafting
It is early days and Lord, Binns and Moir's weaknesses have not been exposed
I have watched 5 VFL games and I could not predict the 3 could project into AFL this early
Their performance has blown my mind, just the fact that all 3 contributed, did not make the errors and took their moments.
There were times Binns and Moir were awful in the VFL
Supporters who are questioning why they did not play earlier. You can make the case for Binns but he looked out of his depth in his qtr against Collingwood, Lord was only drafted 3 months ago and Moir seemed so far off it in terms of fitness, application and output. Moir has a 2 qtr maximum afl tank, the future will test his mental application. The 30 minute cameos as a sub suits his current mindset and fitness levels

I still blame SOS more than Austin. I don't mind what Austin has done tbh, without the super high picks that SOS had to work with.

Who did SOS get in the draft who was any good outside the top 10? TDK, thats about it.

 

[Blue1980]

Gotta give something to get something. If we've identified clear needs such as another quality KPD or speed around the ground, how do we get them?

Very hesitant to trade McKay - my preference would be exploring him at CHB. Very strongly believe that two premier KPD is far more important two KPFs, and McKay and Weitering could be the best combo in the comp.

We've seen teams do very well with more mobile forward lines (Hawks exhibit A). Charlie, Williams, Moir, Kemp (?), Motlop, Durdin gives us a lot to work with.

Owies again, solid player but we'd definitely be selling high. Wasn't impressed at all with the backend of his season last year. Good in low stakes games but goes to ground far too easily and weak one on one. Can't see him being a factor in finals pressure.

Hewett's in arguably career best form, and there'd be clubs who'd love to have him. Wouldn't give him up for cheap but we've got a surplus here a dearth elsewhere. Can help fill that void.

As for McGovern, he's not getting younger, he's still injury prone and he's very much a confidence player. Very important atm but if we can get a replacement in I'd be open to it.

Trading McKay - absurd and wont happen. Maybe for 3 first round picks when the AFL open up that possibility next year (and from a club we think will be shit for that long like a Richmond or West Coast)

Hawks forward line - lets see how they go longer term. So far they have done less than we did 2nd half of last year.

Owies - we wouldn't be selling high, he is out of contract. Though if someone offers him a decent contract, I wouldn't be going overs to keep him (in saying that I reckon he ends up staying)

Trading Hewett - wont happen. Wouldn't get any more than a 2nd rounder and he is worth more than that to us. He isn't on huge coin either.

Gov - wouldn't get enough in return to justify him going. He has still played around 20 games each of the last 2 years. I can't see us getting enough in return for him to justify letting him go.

 

[Blue1980]

Agree - just imagine the pressure on petracca if a deal like that was done. I mean he is good but still giving up 3x1st rounders and a player is to say the very least...ridiculous

I think people underrate the seriousness of his injury. Will he be as hungry as he has been? He has already got a flag as well.

 

[Blue1980]

I like Cerra as a player and his upside is high, but when he came back into the team the match committee bumped Hewitt, which IMHO was a mistake as the loose ball got out far too easily. I don't think the balance of Cripps Walsh and Cerra works as it puts too much pressure on the backline when we lose the ball. Not quite sure about the answer but Hewitt is way underated and we look much better when he is in the middle.

CB

It wasn't working later this season as Walshy was clearly hampered by his back injury and Cerra not right and not trusting his hamstring either.

The mix of those guys worked fine back half of last year when all were fit and firing.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Not on their own but one superstar added to our very talented roster can be the difference.

We are going to fall off that cliff quickly whether you like it or not. The second Cripps stops taking the battering he's dealt with over the last decade, our midfield is going to sink very quickly.

Cody Walker will be just as good as Cripps.
The team is a changing dynamic, use the draft and trade sensibly, everything doesn't hinge on 1 or 2 players.

 

[Blue1980]

Depends very much on what the plan is for Kemp.

I'd rather target a KPD, play Kemp as a third tall forward, and leave that Stone unturned. If we can't find a KPD and intend to move Kemp back into the backline next year, then happy to look at Stone for a forward role though.

Worry with Kemp is, what is he? He is a capable AFL player without being really good at any specific role. Probably just a JSOS versatile swingman who can plug holes at this point. Though he can improve.

 

[BlueJet]

There's not a player in the comp that doesn't have flaws to their game.
It's up to the coaching staff to blend skillsets to achieve the desired balance.
I'd be more open than some to trading out some of our existing players with similar skillsets in order to acquire players or picks that can be utilised to provide better balance - this is not a slight on the player at all though.
If I were being critical of our LM teams, I'd suggest that SOS went for the boom/bust option too often & Austin's approach has been somewhat reactionary.
There are arguments to be made for and against both.

 

[Blue1980]

Cody Walker will be just as good as Cripps.
The team is a changing dynamic, use the draft and trade sensibly, everything doesn't hinge on 1 or 2 players.

Yes why do we have to fall off a cliff. Not everyone does a Richmond or West Coast.

People seem to think you are either in flag contention or rebuilding for a decade. We could do a Dogs or Pies and constantly be there or thereabouts. Or even better, a Geelong or Swans.

I mean I am sure plenty of Collingwood people thought they had to win a flag while they still had Bucks, but they got one a few years after he retired.

 

[BlueJet]

Yes why do we have to fall off a cliff. Not everyone does a Richmond or West Coast.

People seem to think you are either in flag contention or rebuilding for a decade. We could do a Dogs or Pies and constantly be there or thereabouts. Or even better, a Geelong or Swans.

I mean I am sure plenty of Collingwood people thought they had to win a flag while they still had Bucks, but they got one a few years after he retired.

Agree completely.
Continue to churn the list & lining up prospects to replace veterans ensures that the list doesn't stagnate.
I do get slightly concerned when people suggest trading out of drafts because our window is now..

 

[Blue__Balls]

Worry with Kemp is, what is he? He is a capable AFL player without being really good at any specific role. Probably just a JSOS versatile swingman who can plug holes at this point. Though he can improve.

Honestly, I think he's a more natural forward than defender. As a defender he needs to be switched on all the time, if he loses his opponent his opponent is kicking goals, while as a forward his athleticism allows him to be a little more opportunistic.

Give him 2 solid years playing forward and I think he could be a 50-goal-a-year player.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I feel there is a tipping point to the amount of players you can have who either don’t get the ball much and don’t kick goals.

When they play well, you look great but mostly they put pressure on others to carry the load when they don’t play above their average level.

The difference between Durdins good games and bad is huge, same with Cotts, Fog, Fantasia.

Players like Switkowski if targeted to play a role are good pick ups as they’re cheap, I’m not sure how much he’d improve our side though.

Yes this is something I've considered... The way I'd look at it is as such. Blue is the goal kickers, green is the pressure and link up play, yellow is a bit of a hybrid. To unlock the best of the goal kickers I think we need better players ahead of them who can get higher up the ground and be dangerous there so it widens the field for our core goal scorers. Go into 2025 with

Fogarty Curnow Switkowski
Berry Mckay Williams

E.Hollands

Then you have Moir, Kemp, Durdin and others as depth/trying to break into that team.

Would you get enough goals from that group? I can't say for sure but I certainly prefer it to our currently very limited group up forward who really don't get involved up the ground at all outside of Fog.

 

[macky99]

Not on their own but one superstar added to our very talented roster can be the difference.

We are going to fall off that cliff quickly whether you like it or not. The second Cripps stops taking the battering he's dealt with over the last decade, our midfield is going to sink very quickly.

That is complete rubbish, you are investing all hope in one player at 29, How do you know he is going to be same player after his injuries, we have a strong foundation to be in contention for a number of years, if Petracca was mid 20's it would make a massive difference to this type of decision.
We can continue to add players year on year we can have a decent crack for the next 3-4 years, most quality players come via the draft, that is why we invest in a recruitment team rather than the 80's approach of buying players, the smart way is via free agency rather than selling the farm for one player.

 

[Jatz]

The idea that McKay doesn't help us win now is absurd. Give up a coleman medalist for a 29 year old who has just had almost life threatening injuries who may never be the same again.

Idiotic and it won't happen. Has any credible rumour come out about any of this or just media/fan speculation.

Harry was having a super year until the concussion/mystery virus of the North game.

Absurd? Sorry, are we close to a premiership this season?

I love Harry, I'd be trading one of the others. It's pretty clear you don't need two big key forwards to win a premiership.

Absurd to me is continuing down the path of what we've already done when it hasn't been ultimately successful. Each to their own but Petracca moves the needle for me. He's top 10 in the comp at his best. If he becomes available, I'd make that happen. There's not a midfield that would keep up with us.

 

[Jatz]

Cody Walker will be just as good as Cripps.
The team is a changing dynamic, use the draft and trade sensibly, everything doesn't hinge on 1 or 2 players.

Not suggesting everything hinges on Petracca at all. I'm saying he provides the extra 10% we need to make us premiers. That's why we all follow this isn't it, to watch this club win flags?

 

[Stamos]

Not suggesting everything hinges on Petracca at all. I'm saying he provides the extra 10% we need to make us premiers. That's why we all follow this isn't it, to watch this club win flags?

He might add 10%, but we lose more than that by trading one of our gun keys.

 

[Jatz]

He might add 10%, but we lose more than that by trading one of our gun keys.

Yeah that's the part where I don't quite agree. But that's ok.

Collingwood last year proved you don't need all these great talls to win. They won with Cox for goodness sake. We've got so much salary cap invested in areas that can't help when our midfield gets overrun.