List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[SkyhorseTamer]

I think the thoughts on ‘star power’ on this board is wildly overrated…

We have 2 stars!

No we have 4, soon 5 when tdk is up. They've been ground down so much people are forgetting already.

Walsh won best player in the finals last season. Didn't even play the grand final.

Weitering and Cripps are obvious.

TDK is a star on the rise. Not quite but for this discussion he is. As lost management pertains to the future.

Harry should be.

Then you have a suite of very very good players, match winners/ savers on their day who are much better than they are showing for reasons mainly to do with being over worked run down etc in Saad, Newman, Acres, Cerra, Kennedy, Williams,

Then there's a few honest guys every team likes to have like Fogarty, Hewett, Boyd, Cincotta

And then there's the developing 'up and comers' in Kemp, hollands X2, Cowan.

Thats a really good balance and not many teams have that to work with. You'd hopefully add back Docherty and Jack back. Billy pushing through and a proper 2nd defender to play that spot and start deploying gov and kemp properly. So presumably with a real game plan and an off season properly designed you come back with only major questions on small forward, third tall forward and second defender.

Adding another 1million dollar player to that group personally think would just destroy the balance.

Now that I'm ranting I may as well....

A Weitering Newman
Saad B Cowan
Acres Cerra Walsh
Elijah Charlie C
Fogarty Harry Williams

TDK Cripps Kennedy

For this exercise the bench doesn't really matter. The point:

A is that third tall: Jsos, Kemp, Mcgovern are all capable to very good thirds/ interceptors.
B: this is the big hole. Should be the target. Not a petracca. A strong capable no fuss body on body first tall defender to partner with Weits. An Astbury/ Murphy/ Grimes type.
C: This feels gameplan/ form dependant. At the moment we stuff a defensive runner here and say run 16km do nothing and if you do less than nothing get dropped. Ala cotts, fantasia etc. I think structurally it should be whoever is left over from A. Jsos/Kemp/Mcgovern. Or even Martin if he stays. A marking sized forward and decent runner.

Then there's Hewett, Boyd, Cinc, Cotts, Doch, lord, Moir, Motlop, Wilson all either developing/ recovering or ready for those bench spots.

Play the strong guys in the guts. Have 3 roaming talls to intercept quick entries. Walsh running like a madman on one wing and acres the other.

Call them nodes or.anchor points but the extra tall to kick to means you've got those nodes that reduce running required overall and we simultaneously reduce reliance on role players with a better spread and structure. Idk makes sense to me.

Obviously petracca in would be unreal but yeah.

 

[macky99]

Tight salary cap was suggested on Footy Classified last night. Because it was a priority to improve our defence, Matthew Lloyd suggested trading one of our midfielders out ( no suggestion of who) to loosen up capital in our cap. Obviously Crippa & Walsh would be ruled out, but what about other mids. Would it be inane to consider either trading Kennedy, Hewett or even Cerra to accomplish enough capital to go after a competent mature kpd, ie, someone like Battle or Barass. There may by other players names pop up towards the end of the season who could fit the bill? IMO, our defence definitely needs to be addressed during the trade & free agency period.

l would not take this commentary as factual when you consider we were chasing Hayward on a decent contract.

There will be a significant number of delistings/trades which will further up free up the cap & also the capability to restructure contracts, if some of our high end players are serious about wanting success they should be open to this, many options available, the direction of our list management has probably also changed significantly in the past month.

I hope we are active in acquiring more young talent by gaining more picks, our midfield is too slow, alot of quality midfielders in this draft.

 

[Stamos]

No we have 4, soon 5 when tdk is up. They've been ground down so much people are forgetting already.

Walsh won best player in the finals last season. Didn't even play the grand final.

Weitering and Cripps are obvious.

TDK is a star on the rise. Not quite but for this discussion he is. As lost management pertains to the future.

Harry should be.

Then you have a suite of very very good players, match winners/ savers on their day who are much better than they are showing for reasons mainly to do with being over worked run down etc in Saad, Newman, Acres, Cerra, Kennedy, Williams,

Then there's a few honest guys every team likes to have like Fogarty, Hewett, Boyd, Cincotta

And then there's the developing 'up and comers' in Kemp, hollands X2, Cowan.

Thats a really good balance and not many teams have that to work with. You'd hopefully add back Docherty and Jack back. Billy pushing through and a proper 2nd defender to play that spot and start deploying gov and kemp properly. So presumably with a real game plan and an off season properly designed you come back with only major questions on small forward, third tall forward and second defender.

Adding another 1million dollar player to that group personally think would just destroy the balance.

Now that I'm ranting I may as well....

A Weitering Newman
Saad B Cowan
Acres Cerra Walsh
Elijah Charlie C
Fogarty Harry Williams

TDK Cripps Kennedy

For this exercise the bench doesn't really matter. The point:

A is that third tall: Jsos, Kemp, Mcgovern are all capable to very good thirds/ interceptors.
B: this is the big hole. Should be the target. Not a petracca. A strong capable no fuss body on body first tall defender to partner with Weits. An Astbury/ Murphy/ Grimes type.
C: This feels gameplan/ form dependant. At the moment we stuff a defensive runner here and say run 16km do nothing and if you do less than nothing get dropped. Ala cotts, fantasia etc. I think structurally it should be whoever is left over from A. Jsos/Kemp/Mcgovern. Or even Martin if he stays. A marking sized forward and decent runner.

Then there's Hewett, Boyd, Cinc, Cotts, Doch, lord, Moir, Motlop, Wilson all either developing/ recovering or ready for those bench spots.

Play the strong guys in the guts. Have 3 roaming talls to intercept quick entries. Walsh running like a madman on one wing and acres the other.

Call them nodes or.anchor points but the extra tall to kick to means you've got those nodes that reduce running required overall and we simultaneously reduce reliance on role players with a better spread and structure. Idk makes sense to me.

Obviously petracca in would be unreal but yeah.

Good post, except I think Walsh has to be in the centre square, not wing, and Kennedy should be on your secondary list.

 

[Red Bull]

Some of the melts in here are hilarious. The club played in a prelim last year and was sitting 2nd on the ladder until injuries and bad form hit.

To suggest we're still a laughing stock or the equivalent of the 7000+ day Bombers is looneyville type stuff. We'll be back next year and be taking it up to teams pushing deep for finals again. If we can sort out our high performance stuff and shuffle a few of the traffic cones on our list we'll be as good a shot as anyone.

Rising 30 years since a premiership.
Rising 10 years since the much vaunted rebuild and likely to miss finals.
Hawks started their rebuild 3 or 4 years ago.

Can’t even be bothered listing the onfield/off field blunders anymore.

Leaving the wretched St.Kilda aside, Essendon and Carlton are absolutely laughing stock’s across the wider football community whether you want to hear/believe it or not.

Keep banging the drum if it makes you feel better brother but unfortunately we’ve heard it all before and only seeing is believing these days …

 

[gbatman]

Geelong have been the best football club in the game for the last 30 years. Especially the last 20 od.

What would they do?

Definitely not start trading out better players. Cats have had a reputation for rarely letting genuine talent go.

They have a great reputation for getting players from other clubs. Their drafting has been pretty good as well.

We just need to take a leaf from this book.

5 or 6 of the right players of the right quality turns us around.

3 or 4 draftees and 2 or 3 good mature players this season and something similar the next season puts us back in the ballpark.

The last thing we need to be doing is trading away our top players. Geelong have been good at trading away young guys they know aren't going to turn out for draft capital and not hanging onto those sorts too long.

What does that mean for us? Depending on who we can get the following names are probably tradable. Motlop, Williams, Kennedy, Fogarty, McGovern, Fantasia, Carroll, Durdin, Martin, Marchbank, Binns, Pittonet, Cuningham, Hewett, Lemmy, Young, Cincotta, Moir, Owies and Cottrell. Many would generally not be taken as the quality is not there but there are plenty of times a club will be willing to part with a third round pick to fill a hole. Many also we would not want to trade however that all depends who is willing to come over. I wouldn't really be trading too many of them for draft picks, but for the right players most definitely.

 

[Dramoth]

Two issues is the key defence and our speed.

Need to make a play for Barrass. I guess Haynes is a fallback option but not that great.

Then speed. Next year Doc should be back. That leaves 3 creative types Doc, Saad and Newman down back. I would move Saad to the wing.

Play Elijah mid all year. Play Cincotta shut down mid all year. With his injury history play Cerra sub all year (our sub a big body mid or 5th string small forward has been terrible all year). That mix with Acres and Walsh in the middle of the ground all of a sudden gives us enough speed.

Hopefully Moir can come on, he got 5th in the agility test at draft so with him and William forward we have more speed down there.

Why is everyone pinning their hopes on Doc. 3 ACLs and 2 bouts of cancer means that he falls into the perennially injured list. There is a good chance that he might just pull the pin if we don't make finals and then what?

 

[Stamos]

There is a good chance that he might just pull the pin if we don't make finals and then what?

I seriously doubt that that is a good chance of happening.

 

[Aphrodite]

A letter to members | Christian Petracca

A letter from CEO Gary Pert to members on Christian Petracca

www.melbournefc.com.au

 

[Kruezing]

A letter to members | Christian Petracca

A letter from CEO Gary Pert to members on Christian Petracca

www.melbournefc.com.au

He’s obviously been reading our posts and has chosen to stay put … fair enough lol

 

[AvantGardener]

Why is everyone pinning their hopes on Doc. 3 ACLs and 2 bouts of cancer means that he falls into the perennially injured list. There is a good chance that he might just pull the pin if we don't make finals and then what?

Well then my idea of Saad on Wing just means he probably doesn't go to the wing. No harm no foul.

 

[Dramoth]

Or you know... We could find a new fitness boss who isn't going to have about 15 hammy injuries occurring in a season under his watch?

Cerra is young and while he's had plenty of hammy issues the last 2 years is still a quality player and professional enough to get back to his best without having to play as a substitute for a whole year.

Look at Treloar a few years back, he did a hammy every 2nd week... Still goes alright these days and he's over the age of 30 now.

An example of someone who learnt how to do things differently to deal with constant hamstring injuries. Ryan Giggs. At one stage, he'd do a hamstring at the thought of going for a run. Changed his running style slightly made some other changes to his diet and preperation, and it was sorted in the end. We have had a sports scientist running out training who hasn't been looking at changing things up for Cerra because 5 hamstrings in 2 years is a joke.

 

[Aphrodite]

He’s obviously been reading the Saints & Norf Boards and has chosen to stay put … fair enough lol

 

[DangerousD]

So much reality here. It will bring plenty of push back from the go harder, bring your mouth guards group on here insinuating cooked players are soft and non committal.

I don’t like to dump on Vossy as he has some excellent attributes, but he is just so one dimensional. We reach the business end of the season and the list is cooked, until MV changes or leaves, it will be rinse and repeat. Russell has fallen on his sword, but any conditioner is doomed to fail with the parameters our game plan dictate.

Similarly our recruiters are tasked with giving coaches what they request. I like Cooper Lord, but he is clearly giving Voss another high volume tackling machine, as opposed to a runner or distributor, or a key position type. We spend chump change on small/medium pressure forwards while other clubs load up in them via trade and draft with spectacular success.

Yes Vossy, the game starts at contest, but it doesn’t finish there.

What’s the role of the head of performance then? Hey Vossy, Curnow needs a break, nah mate, he’ll be right. Surely things dont work like that.

I agree that Voss hasn’t spread the load enough through the playing group and players are stuffed,but who’s holding him to account, why hasn’t Russel been able to say, player A needs a break?

 

[Prem17]

Maybe Carlton have been shit this century because the club vacillates between denial and panic at the present situation, instead of calmly adhering to a medium-long term plan?

Interesting also that every premier on that list bar West Coast have reaped the benefits of FS/academy/priority/manipulated FA compo picks - in some cases a massive competitive advantage.

On that point, we effectively have two first rounders this year out of the starting gate. If we're playing with Hawthorn comparisons there's no reason we can't replace the always injured crowd with a mix of gun rookies and bargain needs selections, without losing any quality from the top end. No need to slash and burn.

EDIT: WCE have received priority picks as well!

All fair points ET but we are still very poor at building and rebuilding a list.
I'm hoping that the acquisition of Cook will turn that around completely because Geelong have been the best at it for a prolonged period.
As for compo picks, etc that doesn't really apply to Freo, and they are progressing again atm.
I wouldn't say they're ahead of us in current progress but they have come from disastrous levels, contended, then come again.

Back to the original point, clubs like Hawthorn are prepared to move on champion players, then they are back in contention again very quickly.
Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, etc.

You're right in that we don't need to slash and burn but we do need to look at the age demographic and think who will be available for an extended premiership window.

 

[DangerousD]

Who in their right mind is thinking we’re a good prospect as a team challenging for anything?

Nobody is coming unless it’s flies to shit.

People go to * every year

 

[Opium]

I found it interesting in Voss press conference when he was asked about Russell and that he said he thought we needed to go in a different direction and the club disagreed. I wonder what that discussion was about?

 

[Opium]

People go to * every year

Like Goldstein, Mckay and Gresham ? They were the only ones to offer ridiculous contracts to and they are a big Melbourne club

 

[DangerousD]

Reports today that Leppitsch will leave the Pies to take up and assistant coaching position at *

There’s still plenty of time for things to eventuate on player and staff movements but seeing other clubs sign or be linked to quality acquisitions and to hear crickets from us, pisses me off.

 

[DangerousD]

Like Goldstein, Mckay and Gresham ? They were the only ones to offer ridiculous contracts to

All would have been great for us.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

With lord coming in mid season and Ben campo I can see Carrol and one of Hewitt Kennedy cerra moved on to get some real needs-- I can also se a durdin or motlop or owies traded out ..

Our small fwd mix has been pretty much the same for theee seasons and hasn't got the job done as with our midfield has shown the same deficiencies over three seasons and has performed best when missing one of the 5 recognised mids . (Midfield coaching needs addressing )
Our needs are well publicised .
We need a mini circuit breaker (reset) of players to re jig our ball movement especially our so called role players as most have very poor disposal.

 

[Dramoth]

Easier to hit targets when they're in space because they can get separation with their run.

Easier to hit targets when you have space and time and you're not about to be swamped by about 5 players.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

How many more seasons of the neck tie which is Williams contract got left ? He bought in on midfield money and can't even deliver as a half back anymore ..another injury prone player .

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

everyone should be on the table bar our core 5

Are we sure they should be untouchable? These core players are perennial losers. One finals appearance in a decade.

 

[DangerousD]

Geelong have been the best football club in the game for the last 30 years. Especially the last 20 od.

What would they do?

Definitely not start trading out better players. Cats have had a reputation for rarely letting genuine talent go.

They have a great reputation for getting players from other clubs. Their drafting has been pretty good as well.

We just need to take a leaf from this book.

5 or 6 of the right players of the right quality turns us around.

3 or 4 draftees and 2 or 3 good mature players this season and something similar the next season puts us back in the ballpark.

The last thing we need to be doing is trading away our top players. Geelong have been good at trading away young guys they know aren't going to turn out for draft capital and not hanging onto those sorts too long.

What does that mean for us? Depending on who we can get the following names are probably tradable. Motlop, Williams, Kennedy, Fogarty, McGovern, Fantasia, Carroll, Durdin, Martin, Marchbank, Binns, Pittonet, Cuningham, Hewett, Lemmy, Young, Cincotta, Moir, Owies and Cottrell. Many would generally not be taken as the quality is not there but there are plenty of times a club will be willing to part with a third round pick to fill a hole. Many also we would not want to trade however that all depends who is willing to come over. I wouldn't really be trading too many of them for draft picks, but for the right players most definitely.

I like the, what would Geelong do game.

Going off how they have drafted and traded the best part of 10 years, i doubt they are loading up on kids at the draft, i would think they would trading out there first round pick for a player of need, trading in a FA in an area where they will get improvement, then using what’s left at the draft, possibly taking a mature player.

They have seriously gone against the grain for a long period, they trade their top pick regularly, they take mature recruits regularly and they dont drop off.

Even after their premiership when most thought they would drop, they have gone out and traded in players, last year even taking a 25 year old with their second pick.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Well then my idea of Saad on Wing just means he probably doesn't go to the wing. No harm no foul.

Saad should be the loose man in defense like Docherty was. Doesn't need to impact as 3rd man, if defenders do their job!!!