List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

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Michael Jezz said:
One of the worse losses in our history because our list is unbalanced and slow and all our hear is more inside mids & a 32 yo defender. If this is true, Sayers, Austin et al are incompetent
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this "unbalanced and slow" claim is rubbish.

Yes, Kemp is not a KPD and realistically shouldn't be asked to play on Chol, Charlie Dixon or others of that size.

Yes, Young hasn't come on and Durdin looks cooked....

Our midfield is missing Cerra - at his best an A grader - and trying to cover a clearly wounded Walsh - also an A grader (when fit).

And who would have predicted Pitto's stunning loss of form?

Playing injured players - Chuck, Walsh - and bringing players straight back in after lengthy injuries (Cerra, Cotters) reeks of (unwarranted) arrogance...

Injuries aside, our fall off, loss of mojo is entirely between the ears, coupled with a dumb or absent game plan....

We have played many games where we have displayed fast and smart ball movement - as good as any - not often for a full game though. No one bleats about "slow" then.

Yet in recent times, highlighted by our lethargy agst. the Hawks, our indecisiveness, not to mention shockingly poor skills, killed us...North would have flogged us last Sunday.
 
4flagsin5yrs said:
this "unbalanced and slow" claim is rubbish.

Yes, Kemp is not a KPD and realistically shouldn't be asked to play on Chol, Charlie Dixon or others of that size.

Yes, Young hasn't come on and Durdin looks cooked....

Our midfield is missing Cerra - at his best an A grader - and trying to cover a clearly wounded Walsh - also an A grader (when fit).

And who would have predicted Pitto's stunning loss of form?

Playing injured players - Chuck, Walsh - and bringing players straight back in after lengthy injuries (Cerra, Cotters) reeks of (unwarranted) arrogance...

Injuries aside, our fall off, loss of mojo is entirely between the ears, coupled with a dumb or absent game plan....

We have played many games where we have displayed fast and smart ball movement - as good as any - not often for a full game though. No one bleats about "slow" then.

Yet in recent times, highlighted by our lethargy agst. the Hawks, our indecisiveness, not to mention shockingly poor skills, killed us...North would have flogged us last Sunday.
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A lot of what you say is correct.
However, we are also unbalanced and slow. We get beaten by teams that kill us on the spread.

That's not to say that we can't win, but it is our major weakness, and the way we get beaten.
Only takes 2 or 3 players to correct.
 

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We'll miss the 8 from here, so take the unfortunate windfall and grab Trainor with our first (I'd be expecting one year in the VFL at most, Free Agent Haynes as the short-term coverage and mentor for him), and trade into the first round again for a second bite at the apple.

In order of preference there:
- Lindsay: so many of our forward issues can be solved by improving the way we move the ball through the middle and into the forward line. Yeah, some dynamite smalls would be great, but we've got two elite KPFs and we're not getting enough out of them on a consistent basis because, aside from short passages of smart ball movement, we spend all game bombing it long down the line or sitting it on a forward's head when they're outnumbered. Lindsay isn't lightning, but he's quick enough and more importantly he's a smart footballer with elite disposal and vision.
- Travaglia: Disposal not as good as Lindsay but he takes ground before giving off the ball, and in his VFL game with us he showed he can get involved repeatedly in running handball chains, which is very much in vogue with the best-performing sides. I worry a little that he's a bit Kemp-ish - tweener type who may struggle to get enough of the ball against bigger bodies, but happy to take a punt on him given his flair for attacking.
- Berry: I think he's the one that is most likely to walk into our R1 side in 2025, given our unsettled small forward mix and lack of pace. But I also think he'd end up starving there unless we fix the ball movement side of our game, and then he's 12-18 months away from being labelled another Motlop or Durdin.
- Hotton: Kemp-like selection, top 10 on talent but slides due to an ACL. If we're taking a top 10 player as well, maybe we can take a little bit of a risk here on a bloke that will likely be in the stands til midway through the VFL season.

I also really like the look of Moraes, but he seems to be sliding a bit more so could be gettable with our second rounder (maybe just ahead of a Campo bid...?). Whenever I watch him play I can't help but think he seems to be a hybrid of both Hollands boys. He splits the middle with regards to frame, endurance, marking, disposal etc. Just seems a solid, bankable and versatile player who could slot in at HB, on a wing or at half forward, with stints on-ball. The other one here would be Dattoli, who I believe we've been linked to. Similar type, reckon we'd be looking for him to fill the gap we wish Cunners could stay on the park for.

Going full BF-List-Manager here:
Trade our future first, Pick 30 and Jack Martin for Picks 13 and 25 from Freo.
Trade one of our fourth rounders and Carroll for a third rounder from WC (assuming they'll end up with one somehow).

Trainor @ 9
Lindsay @ 13
Moraes or Dattoli @ 25
B. Campo - Match with third rounder from WC
L. Campo - Match with fourth rounder or take as a rookie
Haynes - Free agent
Liam Ryan - no idea what WC want here, but would be interested if it's cheap
 
I raised the possibility, in June, of recruiting Nick Haynes as a Lake/Gibson/May/Frawley type of experienced defender that previous Premiers have identified (successfully too!) would value add to their list for a couple of years, not to build the team around for the next decade! Two hundred games of experience, a lot of finals experience, and essentially a free hit!!
Sounds like he'll be on the list

By the way also raised the question of Liam Ryan as our Jack Martin replacement
 
Richmond could have 5-6 first rounders by the end of the trade period, they already have at least 2 and possibly 3.

Freo also have 3 already, though they are going to try and use them to bring in mature recruits.

Either of those 2 we need to trade our future first for one of their picks to give us some flexibility to trade and draft before the Campos are taken


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Any of the VFL watchers seen much of Ash Johnson from the pies this year?
I have NFI of his contract status but he's athletic, can take a grab and can kick goals.
Seems to down the pecking order behind Hill, Elliot, Hoskin-Elliot and even DeGoey.

Could be worth asking the question.
 
goreds said:
You think that’s a good thing???

Can’t make the top 30 in a draft that falls away after 8 picks…
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By all accounts it's a weak top 5 but then an even next 30+. Explains the drop.

Father/sons always get talked up early, and get more attention and coverage than other players. Clubs unlikely to be putting much time into players tied to other clubs, so the "interest" levels which dramatically influence phantoms and ranking lists will see those players trend down as the year progresses.

There are always players who develop late as well, show some good signs in their overage year and push up the draft rankings.

At the end of the day, Camporeale is no worse a prospect now than he was 3 months ago. He's the same player, with the same attributes and skills and deficiencies.

If he's sliding down the rankings it's absolutely a good thing.
 

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eaglevision said:
Not going to pretend to know your list better than posters in here but curious to know why that would be your strategy? You’ve got a list ready for a flag, seems a second KPD is an area of need and recent history shows that elite ones don’t go to market very often. WCE are in a position to contribute salary to what is likely a tight cap.

You’re getting a couple of good mids (especially Ben) through FS already, would of thought the 2 boys and Barrass would be a pretty good haul.

Again, not a criticism or trying to argue a view, more a question for my own knowledge of your list strategy.
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In terms of young talent on our list, the cupboard was a pretty bare but I agree, we should be challenging for a flag and Barass at this stage is the best available in an area of need.

The issue is cost, you mention WC chipping in $$$ then we move to trade cost.

We currently have pick 10, I’m not sure if you’d be happy with just that and I’m not sure we’d be happy to offer more for a player who’d be lucky to play 5 seasons.

WC list management has confused me for a few years, last year would have been a great time to cash in.

What pick do you think will satisfy your board?
 
DangerousD said:
In terms of young talent on our list, the cupboard was a pretty bare but I agree, we should be challenging for a flag and Barass at this stage is the best available in an area of need.

The issue is cost, you mention WC chipping in $$$ then we move to trade cost.

We currently have pick 10, I’m not sure if you’d be happy with just that and I’m not sure we’d be happy to offer more for a player who’d be lucky to play 5 seasons.

WC list management has confused me for a few years, last year would have been a great time to cash in.

What pick do you think will satisfy your board?
Click to expand...

I think Pick 10 is bang on for Barass. Unless scarcity in the market has driven up that cost.

The other offers they’d be fielding would be 13+ with Hawthorn and Bulldogs.

He’s 28 years old and hasn’t been known to be one of the elite defenders in the comp IMO.
 
DangerousD said:
In terms of young talent on our list, the cupboard was a pretty bare but I agree, we should be challenging for a flag and Barass at this stage is the best available in an area of need.

The issue is cost, you mention WC chipping in $$$ then we move to trade cost.

We currently have pick 10, I’m not sure if you’d be happy with just that and I’m not sure we’d be happy to offer more for a player who’d be lucky to play 5 seasons.

WC list management has confused me for a few years, last year would have been a great time to cash in.

What pick do you think will satisfy your board?
Click to expand...
Given your list position I just don’t see the logic in taking future talent as opposed to established elite talent. You have an elite KPF pairing, you have 2 A+ mids and a bunch of more than serviceable role players, you have a gun young ruck and an A+ KPD and multiple goal kicking smalls. If you’re not all in on a flag now when is the next opportunity?

I’m very weary of suggesting trades on opposition boards so feel free to have a look at ours and see where posters value Barrass. I have maintained before it even became an option that Barrass with 3 years to run worth either a pick 7-10 and a pick in the 20s or he is worth two picks 11-15, both options with a salary contribution from us. This would be one of the more moderate views on our board.

Our list management confuses me too, I was strongly in the trade Barrass camp last year and copped a bit from some posters and the minority agreed with me. The beauty of this situation is that Carlton (I think) needs cap relief and we can provide it in a trade. There’s a few other pieces like Carroll, Pittonet and Petruccelle that could look to balance out a trade.
 
eaglevision said:
Given your list position I just don’t see the logic in taking future talent as opposed to established elite talent. You have an elite KPF pairing, you have 2 A+ mids and a bunch of more than serviceable role players, you have a gun young ruck and an A+ KPD and multiple goal kicking smalls. If you’re not all in on a flag now when is the next opportunity?

I’m very weary of suggesting trades on opposition boards so feel free to have a look at ours and see where posters value Barrass. I have maintained before it even became an option that Barrass with 3 years to run worth either a pick 7-10 and a pick in the 20s or he is worth two picks 11-15, both options with a salary contribution from us. This would be one of the more moderate views on our board.

Our list management confuses me too, I was strongly in the trade Barrass camp last year and copped a bit from some posters and the minority agreed with me. The beauty of this situation is that Carlton (I think) needs cap relief and we can provide it in a trade. There’s a few other pieces like Carroll, Pittonet and Petruccelle that could look to balance out a trade.
Click to expand...
What do you value Liam Ryan’s trade value at?
 
eaglevision said:
Given your list position I just don’t see the logic in taking future talent as opposed to established elite talent. You have an elite KPF pairing, you have 2 A+ mids and a bunch of more than serviceable role players, you have a gun young ruck and an A+ KPD and multiple goal kicking smalls. If you’re not all in on a flag now when is the next opportunity?

I’m very weary of suggesting trades on opposition boards so feel free to have a look at ours and see where posters value Barrass. I have maintained before it even became an option that Barrass with 3 years to run worth either a pick 7-10 and a pick in the 20s or he is worth two picks 11-15, both options with a salary contribution from us. This would be one of the more moderate views on our board.

Our list management confuses me too, I was strongly in the trade Barrass camp last year and copped a bit from some posters and the minority agreed with me. The beauty of this situation is that Carlton (I think) needs cap relief and we can provide it in a trade. There’s a few other pieces like Carroll, Pittonet and Petruccelle that could look to balance out a trade.
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Fair post.
Our 1st and 2nd is probably too much for us to pay (that's not to say he's not worth it, or you should accept less).

While we absolutely need a 2nd KPD, we have other important needs, and that trade would likely be too limiting, and perhaps over-investing in key defenders given we've already got Weitering. Although it may depend on what other deals we can get done.
 
goreds said:
All fair on the list for trades and delists!

Disagree on the stars, only have Cripps and Charlie.

TDK, not there yet (starting to show injury concerns)
H, love him but he’s no Kernahan
Weiters, inconsistent and injury concerns
Walsh, this is my biggest concern, injury is going to limit him as is playing out right in front of our eyes. Forwards with back issues can get away with it, midfielders last 5 games. He’s going at 75% and that might be the ceiling for him now.

On the delists, not sure we can delist Martin, Cunners and Marchy as the ‘back ups’ are no where near their quality and they’re not stars!

Find me a decent kicker to trade for!!
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Surely these two are history? Martin id absolutely keep. If he's fit he's in our best 22 without question. Even if its only 12 or 13 games a season.
 
Stamos said:
Fair post.
Our 1st and 2nd is probably too much for us to pay (that's not to say he's not worth it, or you should accept less).

While we absolutely need a 2nd KPD, we have other important needs, and that trade would likely be too limiting, and perhaps over-investing in key defenders given we've already got Weitering. Although it may depend on what other deals we can get done.
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The only concern I see with a Weitering/Barrass pairing is whether it’s dynamic enough. Weitering is outstanding 1v1 and Barrass is an elite interceptor and defender but both offer little on offence. Having said that, a fit Saad and Z Williams may be more than enough to offset this.

The other trade worth considering is your 1st this year and F1, in exchange for our F2 and Barrass. Realistically I think that looks like 11 + 16 (sorry) for Barrass and 20.

But could also be 10 and 18 for Barrass and 19. It could also be 10 and 1 for Barrass and 18, but we both know that’s not going to happen.
 
eaglevision said:
Given your list position I just don’t see the logic in taking future talent as opposed to established elite talent. You have an elite KPF pairing, you have 2 A+ mids and a bunch of more than serviceable role players, you have a gun young ruck and an A+ KPD and multiple goal kicking smalls. If you’re not all in on a flag now when is the next opportunity?

I’m very weary of suggesting trades on opposition boards so feel free to have a look at ours and see where posters value Barrass. I have maintained before it even became an option that Barrass with 3 years to run worth either a pick 7-10 and a pick in the 20s or he is worth two picks 11-15, both options with a salary contribution from us. This would be one of the more moderate views on our board.

Our list management confuses me too, I was strongly in the trade Barrass camp last year and copped a bit from some posters and the minority agreed with me. The beauty of this situation is that Carlton (I think) needs cap relief and we can provide it in a trade. There’s a few other pieces like Carroll, Pittonet and Petruccelle that could look to balance out a trade.
Click to expand...
It would sort of feel like taking a sledgehammer to break a nut imo. We just need someone solid while we address other problems.
 
eaglevision said:
The only concern I see with a Weitering/Barrass pairing is whether it’s dynamic enough. Weitering is outstanding 1v1 and Barrass is an elite interceptor and defender but both offer little on offence. Having said that, a fit Saad and Z Williams may be more than enough to offset this.

The other trade worth considering is your 1st this year and F1, in exchange for our F2 and Barrass. Realistically I think that looks like 11 + 16 (sorry) for Barrass and 20.

But could also be 10 and 18 for Barrass and 19. It could also be 10 and 1 for Barrass and 18, but we both know that’s not going to happen.
Click to expand...
How do you think Barrass would go on most mobile forwards?
 

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