List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[go_the_dockers]

Super keen to get a quick irishman off half back.

We have 5 or 6 playing in the AFLW, surely we can get 1 or 2 in the men side.

How many cat B spots do we have spare?

 

[Dockeroo]

Super keen to get a quick irishman off half back.

We have 5 or 6 playing in the AFLW, surely we can get 1 or 2 in the men side.

How many cat B spots do we have spare?

Been saying this for a while. Instead of having players who have a 3% chance of making it as an AFL player sitting on Cat B lists for 2-3 years because there’s no one better coming behind them in the academy, let’s go over to Ireland and get involved in the recruitment of talent over there. Put them on the Cat B list instead.

We are a rich club with plenty of resources. If GWS and saints can do it, then so can we.
All you need is one Callum Brown or Conor Nash or Zach Tuohy over a 6 or 7 year period and it’s probably worth it.

 

[Docker82]

Super keen to get a quick irishman off half back.

We have 5 or 6 playing in the AFLW, surely we can get 1 or 2 in the men side.

How many cat B spots do we have spare?

None atm. They’re taken by Draper and Williams.

Draper is contracted for 2025 and from what I’ve seen rightly so, especially given his Category B status. Having him as a Category B rookie in 2025 will almost be cheating within the rules if he develops at all tbh.

Williams I want to see how he goes this year. I like him. Has good speed and skills and plays a position we need more of. He’s also got the body of a teenager and doesn’t get involved enough. Was worth a second year as a Category B rookie imo but we’ve got to see a bit of development for a third.

Generally speaking I think we’ve got to look at just how many Irishmen actually come over - it’s two or three a year league wide. 100% support us having a look if we’ve got the Category B rookie spot available but there may not be anyone good enough willing to come.

I remember we almost listed one 2-3 years ago but he did a serious injury. We’ve tried but shouldn’t just list anyone because we can.

 

[wakojako]

None atm. They’re taken by Draper and Williams.

Draper is contracted for 2025 and from what I’ve seen rightly so, especially given his Category B status. Having him as a Category B rookie in 2025 will almost be cheating within the rules if he develops at all tbh.

Williams I want to see how he goes this year. I like him. Has good speed and skills and plays a position we need more of. He’s also got the body of a teenager and doesn’t get involved enough. Was worth a second year as a Category B rookie imo but we’ve got to see a bit of development for a third.

Generally speaking I think we’ve got to look at just how many Irishmen actually come over - it’s two or three a year league wide. 100% support us having a look if we’ve got the Category B rookie spot available but there may not be anyone good enough willing to come.

I remember we almost listed one 2-3 years ago but he did a serious injury. We’ve tried but shouldn’t just list anyone because we can.

We need Johnson to mentor young Draper as I see some resemblance in how they both play.

 

[Superkoops]

If the players we solid, then I could tolerate it. I don't think Matera, Colyer, Corbett were ever going to be near best 22, Wilson was the wrong age for our side and they all used up valuable picks that could have been best 22 players now.


I would prefer (and I think long term, during a rebuild you are better off) picking an unknown player who could be an A or B grader, than selecting known C Graders or B graders who won't be around when you are pushing for a flag.

Looking back through the draft, here are some late picks that are available that we potentially missed by trading in players.

24 Tim Kelly
26 Liam Ryan
28 Sam Taylor
31 Bayley Fritsch
37 Harrison Petty
73 Sam Switkowski

24 Bobby Hill
33 James Jordon
57 Lachie Schultz



32 Trent Rivers+
37 Keidean Coleman
39 Chad Warner
61 Michael Frederick



46 Tyler Brockman

The future third was well before Tyler Brockman draft and the future 4th picks end up anywhere between pick 55 and 70. I agree those three players weren’t great additions but added some mature depth. Colyer actually played some decent footy for a bit.

I’m not sure how picks in the first 40 are relevant to my point. I actually believe we traded out F2 too easily in the early days.

My point is F3 and F4 is not that much different these days with bid matching and clubs passing etc. Also you can quite easily trade up from 53 for example to 46 by tossing in a F3 or F4.

Therefore my point is I’m comfortable with the club using F3 or F4 to trade up or to add some mature depth like Colyer or Corbett. We also traded in Gumbleton and Kersten using 4th round picks. Both weren’t much chop but honestly the pick for Kersten was around 60 and when you trade out a pick and still have a list spot you get a draft pick at the back end of the draft which ends up being a similar pick (see Frederick - pick 61).

F2 I agree. Wilson and JOM are examples. Both you could argue could have been better using the draft pick. Hamling was traded for second round pick and up until his ankle injury was an excellent addition. BHill traded in with 2nd round pick also until the pull of his girlfriend to get back to Melbourne was also a good addition. Jordan Clark a second round pick.

My point was always in relation to the poster getting a bit upset about trading out F3 and F4 picks and not hitting the draft in rebuild.

 

[Alfonz]

Been saying this for a while. Instead of having players who have a 3% chance of making it as an AFL player sitting on Cat B lists for 2-3 years because there’s no one better coming behind them in the academy, let’s go over to Ireland and get involved in the recruitment of talent over there. Put them on the Cat B list instead.

We are a rich club with plenty of resources. If GWS and saints can do it, then so can we.
All you need is one Callum Brown or Conor Nash or Zach Tuohy over a 6 or 7 year period and it’s probably worth it.

We tried it. Ultan Kelm was basically signed up a few years ago, then he was injured and it all fell through.

Then there was Sean Hurley almost 10 years ago. Had a bad hip injury and I think is still having operations to this day.

I would say the people in charge at Freo think it is all too difficult to bother trying again.

 

[Docker82]

The future third was well before Tyler Brockman draft and the future 4th picks end up anywhere between pick 55 and 70. I agree those three players weren’t great additions but added some mature depth. Colyer actually played some decent footy for a bit.

I’m not sure how picks in the first 40 are relevant to my point. I actually believe we traded out F2 too easily in the early days.

My point is F3 and F4 is not that much different these days with bid matching and clubs passing etc. Also you can quite easily trade up from 53 for example to 46 by tossing in a F3 or F4.

Therefore my point is I’m comfortable with the club using F3 or F4 to trade up or to add some mature depth like Colyer or Corbett. We also traded in Gumbleton and Kersten using 4th round picks. Both weren’t much chop but honestly the pick for Kersten was around 60 and when you trade out a pick and still have a list spot you get a draft pick at the back end of the draft which ends up being a similar pick (see Frederick - pick 61).

F2 I agree. Wilson and JOM are examples. Both you could argue could have been better using the draft pick. Hamling was traded for second round pick and up until his ankle injury was an excellent addition. BHill traded in with 2nd round pick also until the pull of his girlfriend to get back to Melbourne was also a good addition. Jordan Clark a second round pick.

My point was always in relation to the poster getting a bit upset about trading out F3 and F4 picks and not hitting the draft in rebuild.

I’m actually kind of the opposite tbh.

Players like Kersten, Matera, Colyer and Corbett are DFA quality players who added nothing to the list (maybe harsh on Colyer but not on the rest). Future 3rd and 4th rounders are still assets we can use later in other trades. We could’ve easily got players that are a similar standard to these guys without using a draft pick at all - like we need this off season tbh.

 

[Dockeroo]

F2 I agree. Wilson and JOM are examples. Both you could argue could have been better using the draft pick. Hamling was traded for second round pick and up until his ankle injury was an excellent addition. BHill traded in with 2nd round pick also until the pull of his girlfriend to get back to Melbourne was also a good addition. Jordan Clark a second round pick.

Hamling was a decent get for a second rounder I think it was 35. A young key position player that was quite decent at AFL level.
Agree though about the second rounders and F2s that were used too cheaply for role players by a rebuilding club.
A key trade that wasn’t mentioned was Aish - he joined for an F2 in 2018 just before that superdraft. In hindsight we could have traded in Lobb using that F2 and retained the pick 6.
Aish is a great example - a good solid citizen and role player comes into the club and gives good service without ever being more than an 15-22nd best role player.
The price you pay to get him in (a known quantity) is possibly not getting a better player via the draft.
I guess it all depends where you see your list. North went nuclear a few years back, didn’t bring in any mature role players and drafted hard. Now they have 5 or 6 absolute gun talents for the next decade or so. However their fans suffered though some bleak years.

 

[Docker82]

We tried it. Ultan Kelm was basically signed up a few years ago, then he was injured and it all fell through.

Then there was Sean Hurley almost 10 years ago. Had a bad hip injury and I think is still having operations to this day.

I would say the people in charge at Freo think it is all too difficult to bother trying again.

Wouldn’t think so tbh but I think people overestimate the success rate and that’s before you consider there’s probably only 2-4 each year that come in league wide.

I know people will say it’s a free hit etc. but I’m not convinced the success rate is much higher than other types of Category B rookies which are also a free hit.

We’ve had our Category B rookie list full now for two years in a row. Let’s see if we don’t bother once these Category B rookies have done their three years.

 

[apuchar]

I wonder if we have a cat b next year worth upgrading Draper for. I can't help thinking with his present trajectory that he will be a regular next season.

 

[Docker82]

I wonder if we have a cat b next year worth upgrading Draper for. I can't help thinking with his present trajectory that he will be a regular next season.

The way I see it keeping him on the Category B rookie list as long as allowable is good for our depth in his second and third season.

When you’ve got a senior list of 36 and 3-4 18 year old draftees each season it’s hard to have a top 30 players that can play AFL footy without having some on the rookie list. I think it’s genuinely why we rarely see rookies upgraded after less than three years now - I’m talking rookies in general here but I don’t think it’ll be any different for Category A vs Category B in this scenario.

 

[Joao]

Yep, zero reason to move either off the Cat B list unless you need to get someone else on it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I've said I'm dead against moving any of our firsts into next year HOWEVER, I suppose there is logic in just always bankrolling the worst 1st into next year with another top 4 side. Eventually, you are going to hit big like GWS did with getting the Pies first a few years ago.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Are we still eyeing Liam Baker

7

Liam Baker

Age

26

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

222.2

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

191.9

3star

D

14.4

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

224.2

4star

? Listen up, folks, Richmond might be itching to offload him by the end of the year. Their roster? It's in dire need of some serious TLC. But let me tell you something – Baker's got that spark, that X-factor we're always hunting for. His numbers? They're whispering a tale that could fit snugly into our grand plan. Keep your eyes peeled on this one, folks. It might just be the steal of the season.

 

[wakojako]

Are we still eyeing Liam Baker? Listen up, folks, Richmond might be itching to offload him by the end of the year. Their roster? It's in dire need of some serious TLC. But let me tell you something – Baker's got that spark, that X-factor we're always hunting for. His numbers? They're whispering a tale that could fit snugly into our grand plan. Keep your eyes peeled on this one, folks. It might just be the steal of the season.

Bro what is everyone's obsession with him. He would be okay to have on our list but he is not a list need. We would be wasting valuable trade capital on a roleplayer which is just stupid.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Bro what is everyone's obsession with him. He would be okay to have on our list but he is not a list need. We would be wasting valuable trade capital on a roleplayer which is just stupid.

Look at the bottom 5 players named on Friday afternoon and tell me he wouldnt be a massive upgrade on them. If the salary cap hit isnt too bad, Liam Baker for no draft capital is a good deal

 

[freo_leo29]

Look at the bottom 5 players named on Friday afternoon and tell me he wouldnt be a massive upgrade on them. If the salary cap hit isnt too bad, Liam Baker for no draft capital is a good deal

Would cost one of our first rounders imo

 

[go_the_dockers]

Would cost one of our first rounders imo

Is he a big enough upgrade, to justify using a 1st round on him?

Does he fill a weakness in our list?

Is he the right age group?

 

[freo_leo29]

Is he a big enough upgrade, to justify using a 1st round on him?

Does he fill a weakness in our list?

Is he the right age group?

Brings some biff into our side

Slots in on a half back flank, runs through the middle, can also play forward and bring pressure

27 next year so would be the perfect age for our group (if we aren't challenging for the 5 years he would be here then the club should fold)

I reckon he would be worth it

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Would cost one of our first rounders imo

Free agent, if they get band 2, they'll just take it because with WC bottom, we arent trading a pick for him

 

[go_the_dockers]

Free agent, if they get band 2, they'll just take it because with WC bottom, we arent trading a pick for him

As a free agent his appeal increases massively.

If he pushes out Hughes, then I am convinced

 

[wakojako]

Look at the bottom 5 players named on Friday afternoon and tell me he wouldnt be a massive upgrade on them. If the salary cap hit isnt too bad, Liam Baker for no draft capital is a good deal

Only because we have injuries. The more important question is who would Baker replace in our best 22 because he isn't coming over to be injury cover. There's no room in the midfield and he isn't a forward. We would be wasting valuable cap space and picks to bring him in.

 

[Dockeroo]

Only because we have injuries. The more important question is who would Baker replace in our best 22 because he isn't coming over to be injury cover. There's no room in the midfield and he isn't a forward. We would be wasting valuable cap space and picks to bring him in.

He’s a class act. If he can move Hughes out of the side permanently that would be even better. He’s durable too - never gets injured.
We have literally zero depth on the half back flank. He’s no role player either. Would probably play 100 games of high quality football for us. This is a gig that finished second in a Richmond B&F in a side full of stars at the time.

 

[wakojako]

He’s a class act. If he can move Hughes out of the side permanently that would be even better. He’s durable too - never gets injured.
We have literally zero depth on the half back flank. He’s no role player either. Would probably play 100 games of high quality football for us. This is a gig that finished second in a Richmond B&F in a side full of stars at the time.

Hughes is not best 22 and is only playing due to injuries. We have the following 7 defenders which are b22:

Irreplaceable
-------------------------------------
1. Pearce
2. Ryan
3. Cox
4. Clark
5. Walker

Potentially Replaceable
-------------------------------------
6. Aish
7. Wagner

Now you could make a case to replace Aish or Wagner but that would depend on how much Baker would improve their position. That's not even including Chapman! If you trade Baker in you are losing $500k in salary cap and forcing a b22 player out.

It's not that I don't think Baker is a good player, the numbers just don't add up.

 

[E Shed]

Hughes is not best 22 and is only playing due to injuries. We have the following 7 defenders which are b22:

Irreplaceable
-------------------------------------
1. Pearce
2. Ryan
3. Cox
4. Clark
5. Walker

Potentially Replaceable
-------------------------------------
6. Aish
7. Wagner

Now you could make a case to replace Aish or Wagner but that would depend on how much Baker would improve their position. If you trade Baker in you are losing $500k in salary cap and forcing a b22 player out.

It's not that I don't think Baker is a good player, the numbers just don't add up.

Chapman? Or are you counting him as a winger?