List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[Vintage]

So assuming NOd and Sharp play on the wings, Chapman stays back forcing Drapes to play at Peel and Fyfe and Raz wax a midfielder position off and on, who do you drop for Baker?

Dont say Walters as Ive already got Bolton in his position.
Dont say O’Meara, Aish, Emmett or Banners as I already dont have them best 22.

Who are we dropping in the forward line out of J,J,J, Sturt, Freddy, Shai or Switta??
Or are we suggesting he plays back for Wagner or Walker??
I dont get why we would reach for him.
Who exactly are you going to drop?

There are always injuries from the best 23. A couple of weeks ago someone put up total games played by some of those fringe players that baker and Bolton would upgrade - it was well over 100 games.

If you don’t believe that, just look round by round at who actually played.

Round 1 - Aish, Hughes, Fyfe, Emmett, Banfield, Walters, Ras, worner
2 - Emmett, Walters, tabs, Fyfe, Hughes, Aish, banfield
3 - pretty much same
4 - no change
5 - Ras in, Fred out

And so it goes. The point is that it is extremely rare to have all of the best 23 available.

And baker is better than most on here think.

 

[DocT]

“Nothing but a complete disaster”: Cornes takes aim at Freo list calls after B&F results

“It is unbelievable.”

www.sen.com.au

Just Corned having another Rant Sighhhh

Cornes makes a valid point.
jackson is supposed to be a generational/unicorn/could be anything player.
Darcy had a known injury record when we did the Big Deal.
Positionally they substantially overlap.
To have only 1 in the Top 10 for 2024, and that 9th, is a very poor return on our massive investment.
Not saying the die is cast.
But if Darcy/Jackson deliver 80% on what we signed them up for in 2025 then we will play a GF with no other list changes whatsoever.
Over to you, lads...

 

[eastfreo75]

There are always injuries from the best 23. A couple of weeks ago someone put up total games played by some of those fringe players that baker and Bolton would upgrade - it was well over 100 games.

If you don’t believe that, just look round by round at who actually played.

Round 1 - Aish, Hughes, Fyfe, Emmett, Banfield, Walters, Ras, worner
2 - Emmett, Walters, tabs, Fyfe, Hughes, Aish, banfield
3 - pretty much same
4 - no change
5 - Ras in, Fred out

And so it goes. The point is that it is extremely rare to have all of the best 23 available.

And baker is better than most on here think.

Good point.

Baker replacing one of the depth player and strong possibility we would have been 5-0 or at least 4-1.

 

[Cobbler]

He basically gets rewarded for taking highly black and white opinions (not the only one, but probably one of the most extreme in mainstream medialand). This means he leans heavily into simplistic ideas and consequentially basically crap and rigid analysis...more and more fitness as a cure for injuries is one of his overly simplified hobby horses.

It also means he has to cherry pick to prove he's right all the time.

It’s the relentlessness of his approach that does my head in. Especially when nothing can be done to prove otherwise.

It’s bully behaviour.

 

[arsesmart]

And baker is better than most on here think.

I think this is too fuzzy, broad and generic a claim to really provide any real genuine value.

The real debate lies in how much we should be willing to pay for Baker and maybe what that might cost us with other potentially trades and list management.

On the flipside we don't want to ignore what Baker can bring either.

But he is a player who enter the AFL as an honest scrapper. Elevated himself to elite or near elite performances as the Tigers did. But then experienced a significant drop off in form this year and now is prevaricating over a team on the cusp vs one with a hefty rebuild in front of it.

 

[mike91]

Goals ranked 146th averaging 0.8
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2024&rt=LA&pt=&st=GO&mg=1

Score involvements 62th averaging 5.6

2024 AFL League Score Involvements Per Game Leaders

2024 AFL League Score Involvements Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

Goal Assists 158th averaging 0.5

2024 AFL League Goal Assists Per Game Leaders

2024 AFL League Goal Assists Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

You're using one whole season as evidence, not his career? I'm going out on a limb here, you don't watch much non freo games do you?

 

[eastfreo75]

Cornes makes a valid point.
jackson is supposed to be a generational/unicorn/could be anything player.
Darcy had a known injury record when we did the Big Deal.
Positionally they substantially overlap.
To have only 1 in the Top 10 for 2024, and that 9th, is a very poor return on our massive investment.
Not saying the die is cast.
But if Darcy/Jackson deliver 80% on what we signed them up for in 2025 then we will play a GF with no other list changes whatsoever.
Over to you, lads...

He forgot one stat.

70% of our losses Darcy didn't play.

 

[eastfreo75]

You're using one whole season as evidence, not his career? I'm going out on a limb here, you don't watch much non freo games do you?

not this year.

Let's look at 2022 and 2023.

2023
0.5 Goals
0.6 Goal assists
5.3 score involvement

2022
0.5 goals
0.3 goals
5.1 score involvement

To be fair he was played over the shop.

Still, it's not elite numbers.

 

[Vintage]

These rankings are league wide.

2024:
Baker and Bolton considered forwards
14th and 16th ranked score involvement non tall forward players in the league this year.

2023:
Bolton, considered forward is 4th.
Baker, defender, was ranked 2nd for defenders score involvements. Would have been +20% on our best defender this year.

2022:
Bolton, forward is 1st
Baker, defender, 2nd. Would have ranked second for our FORWARDS this year.

These two make good decisions with the ball and create scores.

Yes but, but, but… their 2024 score involvements only look that good because they played in a winning, high scoring team.

 

[arsesmart]

You're using one whole season as evidence, not his career? I'm going out on a limb here, you don't watch much non freo games do you?

It all depends what you might interpret the drop off this year being down to.

Some players elevate out of the mid-tier (or whatever tier) due to things, like effort or finding a niche, that may all of a dissipate due to things they can't control.

This may or may not be the case for Baker, but it needs to be considered.

 

[mayne iac]

Some fans acting like Baker is a Colin Sylvia type pick up. Criminal under rating of a genuine excellent player.

Bolton and Baker arguably 2 of Richmond’s top 5 most valued players.

Bolton fits a massive need.

Baker a massive Aish type player upgrade. Hard at it and will suit our style. Provides large flexibility. This can only be good.

Anyway, we all have opinions, but some of you are carrying on like we’re wining and dining a fringe player.

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

 

[s_wd6]

Four pages of this and he hasn't even decided he wants to come here yet. Can't imagine how bad its gonna be if he does choose us.

 

[dont bowl there]

It all depends what you might interpret the drop off this year being down to.

Some players elevate out of the mid-tier (or whatever tier) due to things, like effort or finding a niche, that may all of a dissipate due to things they can't control.

This may or may not be the case for Baker, but it needs to be considered.

He was playing the high half forward role in the worst team in the AFL. No shock his numbers were down.

 

[eastfreo75]

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

Sure, he would be top 10 but the thing teams are not made of the best players.

Teams need to have different skill sets to function. Too many same same either skills, or personality isn't effective.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

Top 10 seems a stretch assuming fitness. I doubt he's in many teams top 10

 

[malpaso]

I think being "the mongrel" also had him making very bad decisions. Saw that several times in the space of a few minutes when we were well and truly in the process of taking the game away from them this year.

I don't really look at this year for stats/play for Bolton and Baker. Very uninspiring to get up each week for that list..

 

[Vintage]

Top 10 seems a stretch assuming fitness. I doubt he's in many teams top 10

4 consecutive top 6 bnf finishes in a team that had huge performance variations from flag to spoon says otherwise surely?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

4 consecutive top 6 bnf finishes in a team that had huge performance variations from flag to spoon says otherwise surely?

I think bnfs are misleading in terms of player value to a team as weird as that sentence is. Would you have Switta as our 5th best player?

Players that are better / more important than Baker next year: Treacy, Amiss, Darcy, Young, Serong, Brayshaw, Clark, Pearce, Ryan, Jackson, Bolton.

I don't think it's debatable those players have a higher ceiling / output / importance Baker next year, even if a couple need to rediscover their best.

There's a few more you could argue about but those are pretty definitive IMO.

He probably only just scrapes into Richmond top 10 actual best players this year ad well.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

Top 10 seems a stretch assuming fitness. I doubt he's in many teams top 10

Treacy
Young
Serong
Brayshaw

Amiss
Pearce
Clark
Ryan

Darcy ?
Jackson ?


Clearly not top 8. Unlikely to be top 10, assuming Darcy is fit and Jackson is back to 2023 level.

I would put him a group from 11 to 17 with other players clearly best 22, but not really top 10.

Cox
Walker
Chapman
Switta
Sturt
Sharp

 

[malpaso]

It’s the relentlessness of his approach that does my head in. Especially when nothing can be done to prove otherwise.

It’s bully behaviour.

I don't think he's as bad as King. King is such a flog and infatuated with himself (because he sees himself better than most AFL coaches)

 

[freo1997]

Ffs can Baker make his mind up! Rabble or mediocrity. Which one?

 

[Quazar2]

He went quiet when they did play together and we went well.
Then he just unloads constantly at a time when there’s nothing we can currently do. He really is a knob. Personally, I hate ‘negative’ media posts, but I accept that’s just life.

To continue to make a point when players are injured or it’s an off season just smacks of someone with a massive ego who has to prove he’s right.

Time will tell. He may be right, but he’s a deadset flog and one day he’s going to cause someone to have health issues and I hope he gets taken to the cleaners.

He’s actually just a nasty person.

Totally agree with you. In the end, I learnt to let it go - the Vic-based media is CONSTANTLY witch-hunting the Freo football club and looks down its toffee-nose at it since day dot. There's nothing we can do but win a flag to shut a number of them up like Foot Cornes, but even then.... they'll probably find a way to sour it.

It's an obvious agenda, it's egregious and they SHOULD be called out for it, but the wolves like to attack the sheep because they're "weak", so that's how it goes. When Freo is 'down', they're an easy target - when they're doing well, these goons have NOTHING to say, not complimenting when fairly due. Nothing!

F*** him and the other lickspittle spiteful drongbats, I've nothing more to say about them.

 

[theGav56]

and he should only cost pick 25.

I'm in at this price point.

 

[dont bowl there]

Having lived over here for the last 12 years I can tell you it's not that deep, Fremantle just aren't important in any way when it comes to the media. You might think there is an agenda against us but trust me they don't care enough to have one.

 

[s_wd6]

Is there any actual news or progress on anything or