List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Vader]

Zero chance of that. It won't be Smith, no way he accepts that even though it doesn't change anything for the player.

Actually, I think there's a very good chance of Smith being shuffled to the rookie list, following the Mackay precedent. Smith doesn't have a lot of say in whether or not it happens, so his willingness to accept it is largely irrelevant.

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[Mutineer]

F1 to GC for Luko and a 3rd .
F2 for ANB. We took a F2 from Melbourne for McAdam, so.they can take a F2 for ANB.
Cummins FA

Pick 4 for Draper
Pick 25 Dodson.
3rd rounders match Welsh

Dodson @pick 25?
I doubt very much he's still on the board at that point after the F/S, Academy bids etc it could be a pick around 30+.

 

[Mutineer]

this all looks quite nice. doubt GC would do that trade but anyway.

the issue is our midfield will be getting worse next year not better. as laird and crouch fall off the precipice and pick 4, curtin, pedlar are still not ready to assist dawson, soligo, rankine. the year after the midfield might start to hum. I can't see berry, taylor, schoey in deep finals action.

Crouch won't fall off any precipice as you call it, he's meticulous about his preparation and recovery, Laird possibly but he appears to no longer be a starting mid in Nicks best team.

 

[Cleric]

Dodson @pick 25?
I doubt very much he's still on the board at that point after the F/S, Academy bids etc it could be a pick around 30+.

Who knows. As I said, depends which clubs end up with a pick in that part of the draft and if they want a ruck or nor.
That will play out as it does.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Why is Keane's upgrade to the senior list "seemingly inevitable"? He's only been on the rookie list for 2 years, so there's no imperative to upgrade him until next year.

Also, we don’t currently have any players with long term injuries which will keep them out for the entire 2025 season, so we don’t have the option of putting anyone on the inactive list and replacing them via the PSSP. Fingers crossed we don’t get any such injuries during the off-season.

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Not inevitable, but if we get all three of our targets (and don’t pay someone out) he’ll have to be upgraded, it sounds like (so we’ve used three ‘picks’)

 

[Mutineer]

Should be paying Strachan out regardless and grabbing some other mature aged ruck. Zero risk and slightly more to gain.

In some ways, would be a good way to eat up cap space too to get over 95% usage.

Nah draft Flynn Penry with a late pick/rookie and make this Strachan's last contract. I rate Penry and he's already a decent physical specimen so 1 year to develop in the SANFL and I reckon he'll be competitive for AFL games.

No more rucks out of the bargain bin like Strachan, Lowden, Graham etc.

 

[Mutineer]

Who knows. As I said, depends which clubs end up with a pick in that part of the draft and if they want a ruck or nor.
That will play out as it does.

He's the best ruck prospect in this draft, history says he won't be there.

 

[crow2crow]

Zero chance of that. It won't be Smith, no way he accepts that even though it doesn't change anything for the player.

its not his say. it goes like this.

you are being delisted but we promise to re-rookie you.

Smith: No.

Reid: no problem you stay delisted.

 

[Anzacpaul]

its not his say. it goes like this.

you are being delisted but we promise to re-rookie you.

Smith: No.

Reid: no problem you stay delisted.

How it goes at the AFC.

AFC: You're not going to play enough AFL games this year to trigger your contract extension

Smith: Yes I am

AFC: Ok, we'll play you enough that you trigger a 1 year contract. Sorry Smithy, thanks for coming in.

 

[crow2crow]

Crouch won't fall off any precipice as you call it, he's meticulous about his preparation and recovery, Laird possibly but he appears to no longer be a starting mid in Nicks best team.

Sorry Laird is done. Write it down. Will start best 22 but wont be by end of the year.

Crouch ok might be ok 2025 but the clock is ticking with his body shape despite getting way trimmer than he was. Depending on who is coaching midfield they may or may not want him in there depending on the gameplan and if hes not playing centre he's not playing AFL. Now my point was and I think you would agree with this that with him gone our midfield will actually get worse next year not better because nobody else will have got to that ball winning ability yet.....

 

[Vader]

Sorry Laird is done. Write it down. Will start best 22 but wont be by end of the year.

Crouch ok might be ok 2025 but the clock is ticking with his body shape despite getting way trimmer than he was. Depending on who is coaching midfield they may or may not want him in there depending on the gameplan and if hes not playing centre he's not playing AFL. Now my point was and I think you would agree with this that with him gone our midfield will actually get worse next year not better because nobody else will have got to that ball winning ability yet.....

Laird is on the edge of the precipice, looking down, with one foot already in the air. I think everyone acknowledges his position, except for maybe Laird himself.

Crouch is 18 months younger than Laird, and not (yet) showing any signs that he's approaching the end. Father time waits for no man, and this discussion may look very different in 12 months time, but for now there doesn't appear to be anything to worry about.

 

[Cleric]

Here’s my crack at our predicted offseason moves and list structure once it’s all said and done…

Note: We can have anywhere between 36 and 38 players on our senior list for 2025, and then the Cat A plus Cat B rookies can take us to a maximum of 44 players total.

***EDIT - the bowels of AFL list size rules appears as though it’s 36 senior plus 6 Cat A, or 37 Senior plus 5 Cat A, or 38 Senior plus 4 Cat A, so I will edit below accordingly.

Out:
Sloane (Senior list) - retired
Parnell (Rookie list) - delisted
Gollant (S) - delisted
McHenry (S) - delisted
Hamill (R) - delisted
Himmelberg (S) - leaves as FA
Keane (R)* - upgrade to senior list seemingly inevitable
Smith (S)* - downgraded to rookie list a la Mackay
Strachan (S)* - downgraded because he’s horrendous
Chris Burgess (S)* - pay the man out if he’s contracted. Delist him if he’s not. No re-rookieing. You’re gone. Bye.

In:
Pick 4 (S)
Keane (S) (upgraded from rookie list)
Lukosius (S) - via trade
Cumming (S) - via FA
ANB (S) - via trade
Smith (R) (Doing a David Mackay)
Strachan (R) (delisted and re-rookied)
Welsh (S) - via National Draft
One more national draft pick (S)



Senior list for 2025:
1) Chayce Jones
2) Ben Keays
3) Sam Berry
4) Lachie Murphy
5) Matt Crouch
6) Daniel Curtin
7) Riley Thilthorpe
8) Josh Rachele
9) Pick 4*
10) Luke Pedlar
11) Charlie Edwards
12) Jordan Dawson
13) Taylor Walker
14) Jake Soligo
15) Brayden Cook
16) Max Michalanney
17) Tyler Welsh*
18) Isaac Cumming*
19) Zac Taylor
20) Mitch Hinge
21) Jack Lukosius*
22) Oscar Ryan
23) Izak Rankine
24) Josh Worrell
25) Alex Neal-Bullen*
26) Harry Schoenberg
27) Luke Nankervis
28) Nick Murray
29) Rory Laird
30) Wayne Milera
31) Billy Dowling
32) Darcy Fogarty
33) Lachie Sholl
34) Hugh Bond
35) Jordon Butts
36) Reilly O’Brien
37) One more National Draft pick (ruck or lightning quick small forward)*
38) Mark Keane*


Cat A rookie list:
39) Brodie Smith*
40) Kieran Strachan*
41) James Borlase
42) Toby Murray

Cat B rookie list:
44) Karl Gallagher



Other possibilities:
1) Maybe Cumming doesn’t nominate us - means we retain Burgess on senior list OR have the option of taking someone else in the national or rookie draft OR we trade in someone like Rosas or a ruckman instead of signing Cumming and everything else stays the same

2) Maybe we don’t take anyone besides Welsh and Pick 4 at the national draft - means we retain Burgess on senior list OR have the option of taking someone in the rookie draft.

3) Maybe we trade out a player to clear an extra spot. This seems extremely unlikely.

4) Maybe we downgrade Schoenberg or Bond to the rookie list instead of one of the others I’ve listed.

5) Maybe Lukosius doesn’t request to be traded to us, in which case see point 1 above and replace Cumming’s name with Lukosius.

6) Maybe we elect to go with only 37 players on the senior list, meaning that everything stays the same except our extra pick happens at the rookie draft instead of the national draft.

7) Maybe we don’t nominate Welsh as a father son in the National Draft, meaning that we get him as a rookie if he drifts through the ND without attracting a bid, thus meaning Strachan or Smith would remain on the senior list in Welsh’s place.

8) Maybe there’s some sneaky usage of the long-term injury list to manipulate an extra list spot if anyone still qualifies to be stashed on it (or if anyone does a knee between now and then).

9) Maybe we don’t pay out / delist Burgess, meaning we have no additional draft picks at the national or rookie drafts besides Pick 4 and Welsh.

I think Hamill stays. When he came back he played really well until he got injured. There's a good AFL player in him, minus the injuries. I would keep him anyway.

 

[crow2crow]

Laird is on the edge of the precipice, looking down, with one foot already in the air. I think everyone acknowledges his position, except for maybe Laird himself.

Crouch is 18 months younger than Laird, and not (yet) showing any signs that he's approaching the end. Father time waits for no man, and this discussion may look very different in 12 months time, but for now there doesn't appear to be anything to worry about.

with crouches body shape we have seen the end will come quicker than the slimmer athletic types. hopefully he can hold on til the new brigade comes through.

on laird we should be looking to trade him - whatever we can get. i didnt agree with others here calling for this last two years but now it's obvious

 

[huludicidal]

I think Hamill stays. When he came back he played really well until he got injured. There's a good AFL player in him, minus the injuries. I would keep him anyway.

I would’ve agreed with you until we signed everyone else up. He might stay if we miss out on Cumming, but otherwise he’s gone. We essentially chose to keep Bond and Berry over him, plus Oscar Ryan plays a similar position and is viewed as having a strong future.

Another factor in Hamill’s demise is electing to get Smith to his games played trigger, which is still one of the most moronic things I can recall.

 

[crow2crow]

Here’s my crack at our predicted offseason moves and list structure once it’s all said and done…

Note: We can have anywhere between 36 and 38 players on our senior list for 2025, and then the Cat A plus Cat B rookies can take us to a maximum of 44 players total.

***EDIT - the bowels of AFL list size rules appears as though it’s 36 senior plus 6 Cat A, or 37 Senior plus 5 Cat A, or 38 Senior plus 4 Cat A, so I will edit below accordingly.

Out:
Sloane (Senior list) - retired
Parnell (Rookie list) - delisted
Gollant (S) - delisted
McHenry (S) - delisted
Hamill (R) - delisted
Himmelberg (S) - leaves as FA
Keane (R)* - upgrade to senior list seemingly inevitable
Smith (S)* - downgraded to rookie list a la Mackay
Strachan (S)* - downgraded because he’s horrendous
Chris Burgess (S)* - pay the man out if he’s contracted. Delist him if he’s not. No re-rookieing. You’re gone. Bye.

In:
Pick 4 (S)
Keane (S) (upgraded from rookie list)
Lukosius (S) - via trade
Cumming (S) - via FA
ANB (S) - via trade
Smith (R) (Doing a David Mackay)
Strachan (R) (delisted and re-rookied)
Welsh (S) - via National Draft
One more national draft pick (S)



Senior list for 2025:
1) Chayce Jones
2) Ben Keays
3) Sam Berry
4) Lachie Murphy
5) Matt Crouch
6) Daniel Curtin
7) Riley Thilthorpe
8) Josh Rachele
9) Pick 4*
10) Luke Pedlar
11) Charlie Edwards
12) Jordan Dawson
13) Taylor Walker
14) Jake Soligo
15) Brayden Cook
16) Max Michalanney
17) Tyler Welsh*
18) Isaac Cumming*
19) Zac Taylor
20) Mitch Hinge
21) Jack Lukosius*
22) Oscar Ryan
23) Izak Rankine
24) Josh Worrell
25) Alex Neal-Bullen*
26) Harry Schoenberg
27) Luke Nankervis
28) Nick Murray
29) Rory Laird
30) Wayne Milera
31) Billy Dowling
32) Darcy Fogarty
33) Lachie Sholl
34) Hugh Bond
35) Jordon Butts
36) Reilly O’Brien
37) One more National Draft pick (ruck or lightning quick small forward)*
38) Mark Keane*


Cat A rookie list:
39) Brodie Smith*
40) Kieran Strachan*
41) James Borlase
42) Toby Murray

Cat B rookie list:
44) Karl Gallagher



Other possibilities:
1) Maybe Cumming doesn’t nominate us - means we retain Burgess on senior list OR have the option of taking someone else in the national or rookie draft OR we trade in someone like Rosas or a ruckman instead of signing Cumming and everything else stays the same

2) Maybe we don’t take anyone besides Welsh and Pick 4 at the national draft - means we retain Burgess on senior list OR have the option of taking someone in the rookie draft.

3) Maybe we trade out a player to clear an extra spot. This seems extremely unlikely.

4) Maybe we downgrade Schoenberg or Bond to the rookie list instead of one of the others I’ve listed.

5) Maybe Lukosius doesn’t request to be traded to us, in which case see point 1 above and replace Cumming’s name with Lukosius.

6) Maybe we elect to go with only 37 players on the senior list, meaning that everything stays the same except our extra pick happens at the rookie draft instead of the national draft.

7) Maybe we don’t nominate Welsh as a father son in the National Draft, meaning that we get him as a rookie if he drifts through the ND without attracting a bid, thus meaning Strachan or Smith would remain on the senior list in Welsh’s place.

8) Maybe there’s some sneaky usage of the long-term injury list to manipulate an extra list spot if anyone still qualifies to be stashed on it (or if anyone does a knee between now and then).

9) Maybe we don’t pay out / delist Burgess, meaning we have no additional draft picks at the national or rookie drafts besides Pick 4 and Welsh.

Nice job. I like how you allocated the new guys numbers and reallocated some jumper numbers too

 

[Crow-eater]

Why is Keane's upgrade to the senior list "seemingly inevitable"? He's only been on the rookie list for 2 years, so there's no imperative to upgrade him until next year.

Also, we don’t currently have any players with long term injuries which will keep them out for the entire 2025 season, so we don’t have the option of putting anyone on the inactive list and replacing them via the PSSP. Fingers crossed we don’t get any such injuries during the off-season.

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It's not inevitable, but if we land all 3 of our main targets, we only have space for 1 draft pick, and 1 spot on the rookie list. By delisting/ re-rookie into that final rookie spot, it still only leaves us 2 picks.

The options are:
1) Burgess is uncontracted and thus delisted. 3 draft picks, 1 re-rookie.
2) We delist a contracted player. 3 draft picks, 1 re-rookie.
3) A contracted player is traded. 3 draft picks, 1 re-rookie.
4) We upgrade Keane as the 3rd draft pick, and delist/re-rookie another contracted player into his rookie spot.

If we don't land all 3, the point is moot.

 

[crow2crow]

I think Hamill stays. When he came back he played really well until he got injured. There's a good AFL player in him, minus the injuries. I would keep him anyway.

i think you'll find he is on his last concussion from being retired by the AFL and they deem it too big risk despite him getting a lot better this year. thats the only thing i can think of otherwise you would keep him.

 

[Vader]

with crouches body shape we have seen the end will come quicker than the slimmer athletic types. hopefully he can hold on til the new brigade comes through.

There's no sign of any problems right now, unlike Laird. Yes, the end will come sooner - which probably means he plays to 31-32, instead of 33-34. He's at least 12 months away from us needing to have this "player on the precipice" discussion.

on laird we should be looking to trade him - whatever we can get. i didnt agree with others here calling for this last two years but now it's obvious

Yeah, that's never going to happen, regardless what the PlayStation traders dream up. Laird is contracted for 2 more years, and has to agree to being traded - and that's not happening.

 

[Cleric]

i think you'll find he is on his last concussion from being retired by the AFL and they deem it too big risk despite him getting a lot better this year. thats the only thing i can think of otherwise you would keep him.

Yeah, that could play into things for him.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I think Hamill stays. When he came back he played really well until he got injured. There's a good AFL player in him, minus the injuries. I would keep him anyway.

If we get Cumming, I’d be very surprised if we do

Even if we don’t get him, I think we’ll look to draft a player with some outside run and higher upside (that or a speedy small forward) over keeping Hamill

 

[Danger in Texas]

with crouches body shape we have seen the end will come quicker than the slimmer athletic types. hopefully he can hold on til the new brigade comes through.

on laird we should be looking to trade him - whatever we can get. i didnt agree with others here calling for this last two years but now it's obvious

What works in Crouch’s favour is that his footy brain seems to be well ahead of Laird’s. Knows how to effectively extract the footy and makes little mistakes with his ball use. Laird just blazes away a lot of the time

That said, I wouldn’t be upset if we initiated a ‘changing of the guard’ after next season and advise him to move to a contender with a weak-ish midfield

 

[Samcro24]

How it goes at the AFC.

AFC: You're not going to play enough AFL games this year to trigger your contract extension

Smith: Yes I am

AFC: Ok, we'll play you enough that you trigger a 1 year contract. Sorry Smithy, thanks for coming in.

 

[Mutineer]

with crouches body shape we have seen the end will come quicker than the slimmer athletic types. hopefully he can hold on til the new brigade comes through.

on laird we should be looking to trade him - whatever we can get. i didnt agree with others here calling for this last two years but now it's obvious

This body type rubbish you talk about is pure tosh, Lachie Neale and Jack Viney are hardly athletic beasts but they're still going strong because like Crouch they are known for their meticulous preparation, rehab and recovery.

 

[crow2crow]

This body type rubbish you talk about is pure tosh, Lachie Neale and Jack Viney are hardly athletic beasts but they're still going strong because like Crouch they are known for their meticulous preparation and recovery.

Neale is nothing like Crouch. Odd...

anyway viney i agree and i would see the same risks with him as crouch.

 

[Mutineer]

Neale is nothing like Crouch. Odd...

anyway viney i agree and i would see the same risks with him as crouch.

Well let's hear it then, how is Neale's body shape/type different to Crouch?
If anything he's more heavily built.