Preview 2024 National Draft Preview Thread

[Sphynx]

Exact passage of play that got me thinking about it. Agree he's a defender first and foremost but utility potential.

TBH, it's handy, I get the discussion, but it's not what you are drafting him for.

If we want a big utility, I'll take Smillie tbh.

If you want a mobile 3rd defender type, you take Travaglia.

The very next two highlights are him getting jumped over and marked on by bigger opponents.

He's exactly as you described though, he might be a mobile utility defender in the Ridley/Sicily mould, but that is a huge price to pay for that type of player, further, it's based on pure guesstimatation (Which a lot recruitment is admittedly).

If he was 6cm's taller and moving like that, it would be a relative no brainer.

He's going to need to develop into an absolute animal physical to play as one of the key 2 tall defensive posts at AFL level imo.

 

[Harris 10]

For those that care about and enjoy things like this, I thought I'd throw together testing data for this year's top 30 talls (as listed by Twomey) and compare their data with talls who were drafted in the top 20 since 2021. I think this year's crop of capable talls is much larger than previous years, and the potential scope for improvement is very exciting. There will be a team or three who manage to pick the right one in the second round and will be laughing in 3 years from now.

All the following numbers were true as of pre-season testing earlier this year before round 1. Someone like Tauru for instance, is listed by Twomey at 193cm now, but 191cm in pre-season testing.

The other thing is if I've put question marks with a number afterward in brackets, it's because they didn't test in pre-season this year, and so the score in the brackets is their pre-season testing from 2023.

Spoiler: 2024 Talls Pre-Season Testing Data

Luke Trainor 194cm 90kg
Vertical 88cm
20m 3.184
Agility 8.832
Yo-yo 760

Harry Armstrong 195cm 84kg
Vertical 87cm
20m 3.123
Agility 8.774
Yo-yo 960

Jack Whitlock 200cm 87kg
Vertical 93cm
20m 3.023
Agility 8.718
Yo-yo 840

Alixzander Tauru 191cm 84kg
Vertical 89cm
20m 3.137
Agility 8.527
Yo-yo 840

Matt Whitlock197cm 83kg
Vertical 96cm
20m 3.103
Agility 8.714
Yo-yo ????? (720)

Jobe Shanahan 194cm 87kg
Vertical 88cm
20m 3.117
Agility 8.751
Yo-yo 720

Jonty Faull 195cm 89kg
Vertical ????? (80cm)
20m ????? (3.107)
Agility ????? (8.281)
Yo-yo ????? (52)

Thomas Sims 199cm ??(90kg)
Vertical 93cm
20m 3.036
Agility 7.909
Yo-yo 560

Noah Mraz 198cm 86kg
Vertical ????? (83cm)
20m ????? (3.216)
Agility ????? 8.464)
Yo-yo ????? (760)

___________________________________________________

Spoiler: 2021-2023 Talls Pre-Season Testing Data

Sam Darcy 203cm 85kg
Vertical 84cm
20m 3.170
Agility 8.260
Yo-yo 240

Mac Andrew 200cm 71kg
Vertical 84cm
20m 3.160
Agility 8.550
Yo-yo 320

Josh Gibcus 195cm 84kg|
Vertical 95cm
20m 3.070
Agility 8.310
Yo-yo 600

Aaron Cadman 194cm 88kg
Vertical 82cm
20m 3.081
Agility 8.163
Yo-yo 720

Matthew Jefferson 194cm 76kg
Vertical 82cm
20m 3.009
Agility 8.712
Yo-yo 440

Nate Caddy 192cm 91kga
NOTE: Caddy never did pre-season testing in 2022 or 2023. The data here is from the National Combine last year
Vertical 83cm
20m 3.018
Agility 8.331
2km time: 6:35

Connor O'Sullivan 198cm 92kg
Vertical 77cm
20m 3.087
Agility 9.013
Yo-yo 720

Let's say we have 5 years of a Larkey/Comben combination, which tall of the current crop do you see being best fit to work with them.

 

[the big lebowski]

Exact passage of play that got me thinking about it. Agree he's a defender first and foremost but utility potential.

I think Trainor is the most overrated player in the draft.

In that vic country game he turns it over under no pressure twice. He handballs to a team mate coming out of the goal square. It’s loopy and eventually causes a turnover.

His intercept marking is average at best. Haven’t seen many strong marks from him at all.

Whitlock was marking it over the vic metro tall defenders and they had no answer for him.

Massive pass for me

 

[the big lebowski]

TBH, it's handy, I get the discussion, but it's not what you are drafting him for.

If we want a big utility, I'll take Smillie tbh.

If you want a mobile 3rd defender type, you take Travaglia.

The very next two highlights are him getting jumped over and marked on by bigger opponents.

He's exactly as you described though, he might be a mobile utility defender in the Ridley/Sicily mould, but that is a huge price to pay for that type of player, further, it's based on pure guesstimatation (Which a lot recruitment is admittedly).

If he was 6cm's taller and moving like that, it would be a relative no brainer.

He's going to need to develop into an absolute animal physical to play as one of the key 2 tall defensive posts at AFL level imo.

This

 

[chubbspeterson]

TBH, it's handy, I get the discussion, but it's not what you are drafting him for.

If we want a big utility, I'll take Smillie tbh.

If you want a mobile 3rd defender type, you take Travaglia.

The very next two highlights are him getting jumped over and marked on by bigger opponents.

He's exactly as you described though, he might be a mobile utility defender in the Ridley/Sicily mould, but that is a huge price to pay for that type of player, further, it's based on pure guesstimatation (Which a lot recruitment is admittedly).

If he was 6cm's taller and moving like that, it would be a relative no brainer.

He's going to need to develop into an absolute animal physical to play as one of the key 2 tall defensive posts at AFL level imo.

Yeah I'd have Luke that 6-10 range. Really liked Travaglia, he stood out more than Trainor to be honest.
I don't think we'd consider him in the top 3 but we don't know what Thursfield is thinking and whether any teams want to move up a few spots if FOS or Smillie are off the board. Would be nice to get Armstrong somehow.

 

[chubbspeterson]

I think Trainor is the most overrated player in the draft.

In that vic country game he turns it over under no pressure twice. He handballs to a team mate coming out of the goal square. It’s loopy and eventually causes a turnover.

His intercept marking is average at best. Haven’t seen many strong marks from him at all.

Whitlock was marking it over the vic metro tall defenders and they had no answer for him.

Massive pass for me

I still think he'll be 6-10 range. Every kid made 4-5 bad turnovers whether it's Smillie or Trainor or the mids.
I must admit Travaglia and Tauru caught the eye more and might be more suited to what we need off the half back in terms of a rebounding interceptor which doesn't appear to be Luke's game.

 

[R00StaR]

It's always dangerous trying to project the strength of the draft the following year, but as of right now, I'm not big on next year's crop.

So provided you can ensure that pick lands us Hotton, then yes I definitely would.

If we were to do it, we'd have to get something no worse than pick 6 or 7 imo and im not sure any clubs would do it. As much as we're improving, if we got unlucky with form and injuries we could finish bottom 4 again.

 

[R00StaR]

I still think he'll be 6-10 range. Every kid made 4-5 bad turnovers whether it's Smillie or Trainor or the mids.
I must admit Travaglia and Tauru caught the eye more and might be more suited to what we need off the half back in terms of a rebounding interceptor which doesn't appear to be Luke's game.

Thats probably about right, but top 5 im not seeing it. Still a damn fine footballer and would love to have him, just we have nothing in his range.

 

[the big lebowski]

I still think he'll be 6-10 range. Every kid made 4-5 bad turnovers whether it's Smillie or Trainor or the mids.
I must admit Travaglia and Tauru caught the eye more and might be more suited to what we need off the half back in terms of a rebounding interceptor which doesn't appear to be Luke's game.

Sure they do. The difference is that the supposed strengths of Trainor were not on show at all at the champs imo.

1 or 2 neat kicks a game.

Some ok positioning

Some ok defending

Barley any genuine intercepts

Compared to Travaglia who played the same sort of role despite being shorter.

Hyper rebound

Insane intercepting

Very solid defending

Repeat involvements in rebound defending including 2-3 handballs

Insane metres gained

Trainors champs were 5/10, Travaglia about 9.5/10

 

[R00StaR]

The first in what will be a series of highlights videos for the top draft picks picking out the best moments from their 2024 Champs performances. First up is Sid Draper, who was still finding his fitness and form through the Champs after a long injury layoff but still managed to wow us with moments of brilliance.

Would love FOS, but if the club chose otherwise, or he's taken then id be more than fine with us ending up with Draper. Im torn between the bigger utility in Smillie or the need, the need for speed.

 

[justroyal]

The club must have a pretty fair idea on fos given he trained with them at the start of the year

 

[wolvesRoos]

I would not trade a future first unless was top 5 pick. Would just be such a sucker punch to another bad year to not at least have the draft to look forward to

 

[The Dingrel]

I would not trade a future first unless was top 5 pick. Would just be such a sucker punch to another bad year to not at least have the draft to look forward to

Cmon Wolfy,,,,,have some faith, it's not gonna be a bad year.

 

[R00StaR]

Cmon Wolfy,,,,,have some faith, it's not gonna be a bad year.

Who would've guessed Collingwood's pick is currently pick 6 after winning the flag?

 

[ohmygewd]

Sure they do. The difference is that the supposed strengths of Trainor were not on show at all at the champs imo.

1 or 2 neat kicks a game.

Some ok positioning

Some ok defending

Barley any genuine intercepts

Compared to Travaglia who played the same sort of role despite being shorter.

Hyper rebound

Insane intercepting

Very solid defending

Repeat involvements in rebound defending including 2-3 handballs

Insane metres gained

Trainors champs were 5/10, Travaglia about 9.5/10

Don't you think they are two different players in two different roles?
No doubt about Travaglia whom l thought was close to the player of the champs but to compare the two is a bit harsh on Trainor? Didn't see Travaglia line up on a Whitlock, Rohr, Gerryn, Shanahan, Faull, Nicholls or Welsh?

As far as his size, bloody hell Callum Wilkie 191 cm, Tom Stewart is 190cm, Weitering at 195cm are all AA's so l don't personally think his height is an issue..I don't think he'll come in as the no.1 defender if we did pick him, he'll probably play the K.Dawson role and if he is a great intercept mark, take over from Logue.

Dunno, with Chom going forward it seems to me the talk has gone full circle again - do we take a key defender, premier mid or key forward as the 1st pick.

 

[ferball]

Who would've guessed Collingwood's pick is currently pick 6 after winning the flag?

They're tanking again.

 

[the big lebowski]

Don't you think they are two different players in two different roles?
No doubt about Travaglia whom l thought was close to the player of the champs but to compare the two is a bit harsh on Trainor? Didn't see Travaglia line up on a Whitlock, Rohr, Gerryn, Shanahan, Faull, Nicholls or Welsh?

As far as his size, bloody hell Callum Wilkie 191 cm, Tom Stewart is 190cm, Weitering at 195cm are all AA's so l don't personally think his height is an issue..I don't think he'll come in as the no.1 defender if we did pick him, he'll probably play the K.Dawson role and if he is a great intercept mark, take over from Logue.

Dunno, with Chom going forward it seems to me the talk has gone full circle again - do we take a key defender, premier mid or key forward as the 1st pick.

Fair point re the forwards the two played on. As is Trainor played as a tall defender and Trav medium.

But Trainor didn’t stand out with his defensive ability. Played alright on welsh but nothing special.

IMO that was his champs…… nothing special

 

[archereleven]

I think Trainor is the most overrated player in the draft.

In that vic country game he turns it over under no pressure twice. He handballs to a team mate coming out of the goal square. It’s loopy and eventually causes a turnover.

His intercept marking is average at best. Haven’t seen many strong marks from him at all.

Whitlock was marking it over the vic metro tall defenders and they had no answer for him.

Massive pass for me

Off 1 game? Lol

He had 26 disposals, 6 marks, 9 r50s, and 715m against WA, BOG against Coburg, and kicked the winning goal in the Champs game, albeit, from a 50m penalty. Still took the clutch mark though.

He's a top 10 pick for a reason, and taking an attacking interceptor after moving Chom forward wouldn't be the worst move we could make.

BFNAAK too - quality individual.

If we could trade back with St Kilda(FOS) or Adelaide(Draper) and then trade both 2nds to get pick 11ish and pick up, Trainor and Armstrong in the 1st would set us up for kpp for the next decade...

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[R00StaR]

They're tanking again.

Except Freo have their first. Somebody might want to tell em lol

 

[ferball]

Except Freo have their first. Somebody might want to tell em lol

They did this last time too. At least they were getting Naicos to ease the pain.

 

[the big lebowski]

Off 1 game? Lol

He had 26 disposals, 6 marks, 9 r50s, and 715m against WA, BOG against Coburg, and kicked the winning goal in the Champs game, albeit, from a 50m penalty. Still took the clutch mark though.

He's a top 10 pick for a reason, and taking an attacking interceptor after moving Chom forward wouldn't be the worst move we could make.

BFNAAK too - quality individual.

If we could trade back with St Kilda(FOS) or Adelaide(Draper) and then trade both 2nds to get pick 11ish and pick up, Trainor and Armstrong in the 1st would set us up for kpp for the next decade...

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Not off the one game.

He accumulates down back with lots of chip kicks but doesn’t actually do much.

As I said, his intercept marking doesn’t seem to be a strength in reality. His one on one defending isn’t much.

He moves well and rebounds. See Curtin last year. His kicking is hit and miss.

Just my strong opinion

 

[hoffseason gains 01]

Not off the one game.

He accumulates down back with lots of chip kicks but doesn’t actually do much.

As I said, his intercept marking doesn’t seem to be a strength in reality. His one on one defending isn’t much.

He moves well and rebounds. See Curtin last year. His kicking is hit and miss.

Just my strong opinion

I agree, I wasn’t impressed with him Champs.

Unfortunately with Metro’s genuine key defender stocks being a weakness he didn’t get to play as that hybrid / 3rd tall interceptor much. He is a genuinely great interceptor in that role, he isn’t a back shoulder interceptor through winning 1 on 1s, but rather he roams the ground to intercept and launch - similar to how Travaglia played at the champs.

I rate his intercepting better than Curtin with Curtin the better pure defender, but Curtin didn’t have the size to be a no 1 key defender, didn’t have the intercepting to be that 3rd tall and I thought he lacked midfield craft. Left Curtin in a bit of no man’s land and I view him as an oversized flanker with midfield potential.

Trainor has more of a defined role with translatable traits that are valued at AFL level. But still I think that sort of player should be lights out good to be a top 5 pick.

 

[Souup]

Not off the one game.

He accumulates down back with lots of chip kicks but doesn’t actually do much.

As I said, his intercept marking doesn’t seem to be a strength in reality. His one on one defending isn’t much.

He moves well and rebounds. See Curtin last year. His kicking is hit and miss.

Just my strong opinion

His intercept marking is definitely a strength. I was anti-Curtin last year and was as loud as anyone about him not being a key defender and that he really didn't show the ability to intercept. Trainor isn't Curtin. He reads the game really well and I think his one-on-one defending is actually quite good.

Each to their own though - it seems like Trainor is going to be the guy who polarises people more than any other in this crop.

 

[chubbspeterson]

Don't you think they are two different players in two different roles?
No doubt about Travaglia whom l thought was close to the player of the champs but to compare the two is a bit harsh on Trainor? Didn't see Travaglia line up on a Whitlock, Rohr, Gerryn, Shanahan, Faull, Nicholls or Welsh?

As far as his size, bloody hell Callum Wilkie 191 cm, Tom Stewart is 190cm, Weitering at 195cm are all AA's so l don't personally think his height is an issue..I don't think he'll come in as the no.1 defender if we did pick him, he'll probably play the K.Dawson role and if he is a great intercept mark, take over from Logue.

Dunno, with Chom going forward it seems to me the talk has gone full circle again - do we take a key defender, premier mid or key forward as the 1st pick.

Will Dawson means we could just take a 200cm kpd in Noah Mraz or Lockwood at the 3rd rounder as more depth.
The 1st rounder I think will be whether we slide and still get who we want in the top 7 and get another asset in return.
Might depend on how well Chom goes as a forward as to what they do as well.

 

[archereleven]

Trainor is a pretty well-rounded defender, imo. He is good overhead, hits attacking kicks at a decent clip, and is exceptional when the ball is on the deck for a 194cm defender.

He still has plenty to work on, but at least comes in with an AFL tank.

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