Game Day 2024 Non-Swans Game Day

[Donza]

Just some casual racism for a Sunday.

 

[kneecapper]

They could be called the West Sydney Halal Schezuen Tendulkar's and still not have any support.
Majority of the people living in West Sydney are from cultures that don't follow any code of football and never will.
Not having any locals to convert them into fans....it ain't ever going to work.

ITMT you can pack out Homebush with Korean Boy bands or Bollywood star musicals.

Just how it is.

This seems pretty short-sighted to me. English and Irish players dominated in the late 19th and early 20th century but the children and grandchildren of Italian and Greek immigrants (who were not seen as white at the time) took up the sport with passion and became some of the best players of all time. Now we're seeing some great players of African and Middle Eastern heritage filter through, indeed the first Sudanese player was only drafted in 2009 and now another will soon be the best paid player in the league.

I don't think targeting Western Sydney is misguided at all but I do think the Swans would have been better placed to make more organic connections with that community rather than the creation of a new club. There are cultural barriers, yes, but they can and have previously been overcome. I think GWS would have been better situated to represent Canberra and the Riverina but the capacity for growth is limited there and we all know the AFL is all about $$$.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

This seems pretty short-sighted to me. English and Irish players dominated in the late 19th and early 20th century but the children and grandchildren of Italian and Greek immigrants (who were not seen as white at the time) took up the sport with passion and became some of the best players of all time. Now we're seeing some great players of African and Middle Eastern heritage filter through, indeed the first Sudanese player was only drafted in 2009 and now another will soon be the best paid player in the league.

I don't think targeting Western Sydney is misguided at all but I do think the Swans would have been better placed to make more organic connections with that community rather than the creation of a new club. There are cultural barriers, yes, but they can and have previously been overcome. I think GWS would have been better situated to represent Canberra and the Riverina but the capacity for growth is limited there and we all know the AFL is all about $$$.

I agree with this 100%. Aussies of many migrant backgrounds are excellent athletes.

But how do you convince them or their parents to take up the game in great enough numbers to warrant having a whole team represent them? Thus your comment about having the Swans, as an established club, do this difficult job, makes the most sense. The Swans have done a great job attracting Australian Chinese fans (like myself).

Also, a team from Canberra / Riverina makes absolute sense playing home games at an upgraded Manuka with the odd game in Wagga or Albury.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

I think a lot of the problem with GWS not having supporters is due to their name, which doesn’t inspire any geographical loyalty. “Greater Western Sydney” isn’t actually a thing. Literally no one identifies as being from Greater WS. In their attempt to capture the largest possible geographical area with the name, the AFL ended up capturing no one. GWS is a statistical term only. People either identify with “Western Sydney” or their suburb. The “Greater” part feels like it was forced by some clueless AFL number cruncher in Melbourne who has never actually been to Western Sydney.

It is a tough area to crack, but the name doesn’t help. They should either change it to Western Sydney or admit defeat and relocate the team to Canberra.

Agree with this. The greater part makes it sound like a government urban planning document rather than the geographical location of a team. Either drop the greater or relocate to Canberra.

I'm pretty sure the brainstorming session went something along the lines of...

Manager: we need a geographical location that covers as much of Sydney outside of the Swans stronghold.
Person 1: how about Western Sydney?
Manager: that's going ro alienate fans who aren't from Western Sydney.
Person 2: what about Greater Western Sydney?
Manager: Billiant thinking.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I agree with this 100%. Aussies of many migrant backgrounds are excellent athletes.

But how do you convince them or their parents to take up the game in great enough numbers to warrant having a whole team represent them? Thus your comment about having the Swans, as an established club, do this difficult job, makes the most sense. The Swans have done a great job attracting Australian Chinese fans (like myself).

Also, a team from Canberra / Riverina makes absolute sense playing home games at an upgraded Manuka with the odd game in Wagga or Albury.

I go to every Swans home game and there are a fair few non-anglo fans of many backgrounds in their Swans gear. Mostly younger, I would guess second or third generation.
Sadly (maybe) I watched a little of a Brumbies game on TV and the crowd was terrible. I'm not sure that Canberra could support a full time AFL team, nor afford to upgrade a stadium.
The AFL needs to put some serious $ and human resources into junior footy in Sydney if they are serious about growing the game. The future lies with the kids.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I think a lot of the problem with GWS not having supporters is due to their name, which doesn’t inspire any geographical loyalty. “Greater Western Sydney” isn’t actually a thing. Literally no one identifies as being from Greater WS. In their attempt to capture the largest possible geographical area with the name, the AFL ended up capturing no one. GWS is a statistical term only. People either identify with “Western Sydney” or their suburb. The “Greater” part feels like it was forced by some clueless AFL number cruncher in Melbourne who has never actually been to Western Sydney.

It is a tough area to crack, but the name doesn’t help. They should either change it to Western Sydney or admit defeat and relocate the team to Canberra.

Very very few teams can exist across multiple geographic areas. I would hazard a guess that no team on the planet has done it successfully in a market where their sport is not already entrenched in those regions. It should have been Western Sydney from the start.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I actually think it’s more psychological.

So many teams seem to become conservative when they build a lead - the team in front can’t always be the only one to get physically tired.

They seem to stop doing what got them the lead and start focussing on “taking time off the clock”. Which never works.

We used to do it all the time.

Agree 100%.

I have been trying to work out why it has become a factor for so many sides this year. My guess is that footy has become almost completely pressure based, and that when teams try to defend a lead they try to take the heat (read pressure) out of the game because that is how teams did it in the past (when the game was more possession and territory based).

The only way to defend a lead now is to come at every contest with more pressure than the opposition. The mindset needs to switch from removing heat to adding heat, and backing yourself to have more puff than the opposition.

 

[ShireSwan]

This seems pretty short-sighted to me. English and Irish players dominated in the late 19th and early 20th century but the children and grandchildren of Italian and Greek immigrants (who were not seen as white at the time) took up the sport with passion and became some of the best players of all time. Now we're seeing some great players of African and Middle Eastern heritage filter through, indeed the first Sudanese player was only drafted in 2009 and now another will soon be the best paid player in the league.

I don't think targeting Western Sydney is misguided at all but I do think the Swans would have been better placed to make more organic connections with that community rather than the creation of a new club. There are cultural barriers, yes, but they can and have previously been overcome. I think GWS would have been better situated to represent Canberra and the Riverina but the capacity for growth is limited there and we all know the AFL is all about $$$.

Congratulations on missing my point entirely.

The Greeks and Italians (mostly Melbourne, but also Adelaide and regional) had locals to initiate them into the culture of AFL. At that time assimilation was seen as more or less a duty of young migrants. Especially in the workplace. And this is where the AFL was able to bring those cultures into the game, it became a means of fitting in and getting along.
Neither the assimilation expectation, nor the locals interested in AFL and bringing migrants into the game are true today of Western Sydney. People just like what they liked in their home countries, and the internet means they don't have to give those likes up just because they live here. Hence you get 30,000 to Korean boy bands, 20,000 to Indian Bollywood palavar, and only 5,000 to AFL.

Just my sociological take on why it's not working and never will.

 

[kneecapper]

Congratulations on missing my point entirely.

The Greeks and Italians (mostly Melbourne, but also Adelaide and regional) had locals to initiate them into the culture of AFL. At that time assimilation was seen as more or less a duty of young migrants. Especially in the workplace. And this is where the AFL was able to bring those cultures into the game, it became a means of fitting in and getting along.
Neither the assimilation expectation, nor the locals interested in AFL and bringing migrants into the game are true today of Western Sydney. People just like what they liked in their home countries, and the internet means they don't have to give those likes up just because they live here. Hence you get 30,000 to Korean boy bands, 20,000 to Indian Bollywood palavar, and only 5,000 to AFL.

Just my sociological take on why it's not working and never will.

No, the Greeks and Italians were not initiated into the AFL, they were actively resisted as outsiders. And this same "failure to integrate" argument has been trotted out about new migrants for centuries now and, a generation or two later, never proves true. You sound like you don't really know anyone from Western Sydney or spend much time there at all. Anyway, I'm not going to derail the thread further.

 

[ShireSwan]

No, the Greeks and Italians were not initiated into the AFL, they were actively resisted as outsiders. And this same "failure to integrate" argument has been trotted out about new migrants for centuries now and, a generation or two later, never proves true. You sound like you don't really know anyone from Western Sydney or spend much time there at all. Anyway, I'm not going to derail the thread further.

FWIW I didn't put any value judgement on integration. I certainly didn't cite any "failure to integrate".
If you have baggage on that issue I'm sorry I brought it up.

My mum's from Western Sydney, spent lots of time there every school holidays, my Grandpa's Greek and my wife and kids are Asian. So if you have a problem with racism in your life - that's your issue not mine.

I'm talking about different cultures not being into football. That's not controversial, it's not racism, it's just how it is.
AFL is not a universal human trait.

 

[SwansProudly]

GWS were in front for almost 94% of the total time in both finals

Thanks. I had to find an excuse to post this graphic
The look on Papley's face

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Never going to happen in West Sydney where there are very few Australians born here, let alone enough that actually follow AFL and pass on the interest to people from cultures with absolute zero interest in any mode of football.

And the Australian-born western suburbs folks are wedded to rugby league.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I agree with this 100%. Aussies of many migrant backgrounds are excellent athletes.

But how do you convince them or their parents to take up the game in great enough numbers to warrant having a whole team represent them? Thus your comment about having the Swans, as an established club, do this difficult job, makes the most sense. The Swans have done a great job attracting Australian Chinese fans (like myself).

Also, a team from Canberra / Riverina makes absolute sense playing home games at an upgraded Manuka with the odd game in Wagga or Albury.

When I lock horns with soccer fans online they often pull the line that Aussie Rules will fade in relevance as more and more immigrants arrive from countries that only know soccer.

I point out that Australia has been taking immigrants from one of the most soccer-mad nations in the world; the one that practically invented the modern sport, since, oh.. 1788 and yet somehow, after a generation, so many of them come around to Aussie Rules.

I like to state my theory that once they drop their cultural baggage, they’re willing to admit it’s simply a better game.

But that doesn’t usually go down too well.

 

[Millky95]

When I lock horns with soccer fans online they often pull the line that Aussie Rules will fade in relevance as more and more immigrants arrive from countries that only know soccer.

I point out that Australia has been taking immigrants from one of the most soccer-mad nations in the world; the one that practically invented the modern sport, since, oh.. 1788 and yet somehow, after a generation, so many of them come around to Aussie Rules.

I like to state my theory that once they drop their cultural baggage, they’re willing to admit it’s simply a better game.

But that doesn’t usually go down too well.

Soccer should outlaw the header that way a lot of their fans can be a lot less braindead by the time they reach their teens

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Soccer should outlaw the header that way a lot of their fans can be a lot less braindead by the time they reach their teens

Great minds think alike. I have trotted out that very theory more than once myself. To the usual sullen snarls in reply.

 

[SM]

What does heading a football for players have to do with the people who watch football?

Do people have to play the sport to be allowed to watch it?

 

[ashep]

Well for a start, Hinkley wasn't in Ginnivan's face, he had a smart retort to the smartarse tweet, said from a reasonable distance, unlike the Jason McCartney incident and if Papley had posted something like Ginnivan did then yes - don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.
I'm not big on social media but like most things in life, every action has a reaction.

I don't know you personally jewels but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that whilst you might be seething inside, you'd do the professional thing and shake hands, then go back and trash him in the dressing room

 

[Jewelsbon]

I don't know you personally jewels but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that whilst you might be seething inside, you'd do the professional thing and shake hands, then go back and trash him in the dressing room

Yeah, not sure my husband would agree with you there ashep, but I'd like to think I would!

 

[Kiama Chris]

Yeah, not sure my husband would agree with you there ashep, but I'd like to think I would!

I always ask myself "what would Horse do?".

 

[Millky95]

I always ask myself "what would Horse do?".

Put Reid in defense!