Training 2024 Pre-Season discussion

[ButterMill]

So a player's weight is now deemed private information, to follow on from the cessation of skinfolds.

I guess the logical progression is that the AFL then have time trials and other performance data concealed, for fear of comparison and injury to delicate egos.

Then they should probably stonewall any information on what role a player has on-field, so the footy public doesn't intrude on their sense of privacy in their workplace.

Maybe the AFL could further shield them from scrutiny in their well-paid roles by locking the crowds out, so they're not in the public gaze and feel even safer.

I'm not fussed. It adds next to no value when observing players. George Stevens and Tom Hawkins are the only two times I've noticed weight measurements. Stewie Dew and Will Gould I could eye ball some bulk.

Don't know what motivated the decision though.

Height and speed are useful. How else can I assume every mid drafted over 190 is Bont or below 175 could be Caleb Daniel?

 

[Cataholic]

I'm not fussed. It adds next to no value when observing players. George Stevens and Tom Hawkins are the only two times I've noticed weight measurements. Stewie Dew and Will Gould I could eye ball some bulk.

Don't know what motivated the decision though.

Height and speed are useful. How else can I assume every mid drafted over 190 is Bont or below 175 could be Caleb Daniel?

Hmm, speed could be the next victim.

Don't want a player becoming offended by the knowledge he's slower than the other guy.

 

[ButterMill]

When I first watched Dempsey in the VFL I had to scramble for a team sheet.

This blonde kid had all the tricks, including hangers, lookaways, and blind turns. He had hardly played a dozen games of AFL in the years leading to being drafted.
I said in one post after three or four games the only player who came to mind as (a ceiling for him) was Hird.

Last year he must have been asked to curb the highlights and concentrate on more mundane matters such as getting from contest to contest and increasing his overall influence. Which he did , with the odd highlight.

AFL is tough. Dempsey has IT = talent. But does he have the other IT.....drive

If he has both buckle up.

On SM-G930U using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't know if it's selective reading but multiple times I've read stories of players training extra in the offseason and Dempsey has been in that group.

Like I said, if he didn't get pushed off the ball so easily in the AFL I'd be salivating. He's got something. I can feel it. Glad I'm not the only one that saw a hint of Hird, though the Heeney call was a great one in terms of body shape.

I almost want to force these kids into the team but I know it doesn't work that well having too many at once. Have to trust the club.

Regardless he's been an amazing story already. To get any games from where he was drafted is awesome.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I just feel like Clohesy is capable of more than the small defender role. I hate to think he's on his last roll of the dice this quick, going the same way as Whyte maybe

I think Clohesy looked a long way off it last year. Undersized for an inside mid, without any obvious elite qualities and a bit fumbly. But you can't deny his effort. I suspect being given a debut in the last round shows they love his attitude.

I suspect the club might be looking at a guy like Atkins and wonder how much quicker he might've got to his current level if he'd been in a professional environment earlier. Clohesy looks a similar type. It didn't hurt Atkins shifting from VFL mid to small forward and then small defender. And learning those skills probably made him a better midfield once he made the grade.

 

[ButterMill]

Hmm, speed could be the next victim.

Don't want a player becoming offended by the knowledge he's slower than the other guy.

"You’re a professional athlete. You’re not an influencer on social media. Any other sport I can look that up. I can tell you Travis Kelce was 113kg. His quarterback Patrick Mahomes weighs 102kg."

I'm actually impressed that Kelce and Mahomes weigh that much. The NFL players are monsters.

Oh well. I try not to get too outraged these days. Kids are softer maybe but we have improved on issues of mental health, CTE and the like. A few steps forward a few back. As I get older I know I'll get mad more so saving it for big issues like another outrageous attempt at changing the flavour of BBQ Shapes.

 

[Footy Smarts]

When I first watched Dempsey in the VFL I had to scramble for a team sheet.

This blonde kid had all the tricks, including hangers, lookaways, and blind turns. He had hardly played a dozen games of AFL in the years leading to being drafted.
I said in one post after three or four games the only player who came to mind as (a ceiling for him) was Hird.

Last year he must have been asked to curb the highlights and concentrate on more mundane matters such as getting from contest to contest and increasing his overall influence. Which he did , with the odd highlight.

AFL is tough. Dempsey has IT = talent. But does he have the other IT.....drive

If he has both buckle up.

On SM-G930U using BigFooty.com mobile app

He's got the drive. He and Knevitt push each other like crazy with their running.

He gives me Stevie J vibes. Just sees the game earlier than others and because of that takes unconventional options that usually work. He hasn't yet got the speed of AFL but when he does I'm extremely optimistic of what he can do.

 

[Lana]

So a player's weight is now deemed private information, to follow on from the cessation of skinfolds.

I guess the logical progression is that the AFL then have time trials and other performance data concealed, for fear of comparison and injury to delicate egos.

Then they should probably stonewall any information on what role a player has on-field, so the footy public doesn't intrude on their sense of privacy in their workplace.

Maybe the AFL could further shield them from scrutiny in their well-paid roles by locking the crowds out, so they're not in the public gaze and feel even safer.

I'm not going to get upset by the loss of their WWE billing.

I can only remember #novest I assume that it hasn't come from nowhere.

Could lead to many interesting match up where clubs misread their oppositions size.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

So a player's weight is now deemed private information, to follow on from the cessation of skinfolds.

I guess the logical progression is that the AFL then have time trials and other performance data concealed, for fear of comparison and injury to delicate egos.

Then they should probably stonewall any information on what role a player has on-field, so the footy public doesn't intrude on their sense of privacy in their workplace.

Maybe the AFL could further shield them from scrutiny in their well-paid roles by locking the crowds out, so they're not in the public gaze and feel even safer.

The way we're going, many posters on BigFooty will be in court within a few years for their criticism of players over the journey. It'll be our little version of the Nuremberg trials.

Are we no longer allowed to use terms like 'foot soldier', 'role player', or 'Good, ordinary footballer'? Are they deemed too offensive?

In all seriousness though, we are going a bit far, and the biggest issue IMO is when we're blurring the lines between description and criticism.

For instance, is calling 2008 Stewy Dew overweight for an AFL footballer a criticism, or merely a description?

Is calling Jed Bews a limited footballer who tries his guts out every week a criticism, or a description?

The first example now feels off limits, with the second not far away with how far off track we're getting.

Growth and change is good, and if human history is anything to go by, we've needed to progress a long way from where we started, and even where we were not so long ago.

There comes a point though where we're missing the forest for the trees, and we've taken the goal of growth and sensitivity and lost track of the basic tenants of society, and life as a whole.

If you're an accountant, it makes perfect sense for your weight to remain off limits, or be shared in the public domain.

It's intrusive, and the way you treat your body has zero impact on your ability to work and add value to a company, and therefore earn your salary.

If you're an elite sportsman though who's performance and salary, is largely determined by the composition of your body, then it's fair for that information to be made public.

This isn't charity, these players aren't volunteers.

They are paid extraordinary amounts of money derived from the revenue provided by those who support them. Critiquing their performance, weight, or anything within reason is fair game, and we're not fixing any issues by being progressive and outlawing that.

 

[Cataholic]

The way we're going, many posters on BigFooty will be in court within a few years for their criticism of players over the journey. It'll be our little version of the Nuremberg trials.

Are we no longer allowed to use terms like 'foot soldier', 'role player', or 'Good, ordinary footballer'? Are they deemed too offensive?

In all seriousness though, we are going a bit far, and the biggest issue IMO is when we're blurring the lines between description and criticism.

For instance, is calling 2008 Stewy Dew overweight for an AFL footballer a criticism, or merely a description?

Is calling Jed Bews a limited footballer who tries his guts out every week a criticism, or a description?

The first example now feels off limits, with the second not far away with how far off track we're getting.

Growth and change is good, and if human history is anything to go by, we've needed to progress a long way from where we started, and even where we were not so long ago.

There comes a point though where we're missing the forest for the trees, and we've taken the goal of growth and sensitivity and lost track of the basic tenants of society, and life as a whole.

If you're an accountant, it makes perfect sense for your weight to remain off limits, or be shared in the public domain.

It's intrusive, and the way you treat your body has zero impact on your ability to work and add value to a company, and therefore earn your salary.

If you're an elite sportsman though who's performance and salary, is largely determined by the composition of your body, then it's fair for that information to be made public.

This isn't charity, these players aren't volunteers.

They are paid extraordinary amounts of money derived from the revenue provided by those who support them. Critiquing their performance, weight, or anything within reason is fair game, and we're not fixing any issues by being progressive and outlawing that.

Well said.

Can see the term 'body shape' being banned real soon.

 

[Cataholic]

The way we're going, many posters on BigFooty will be in court within a few years for their criticism of players over the journey. It'll be our little version of the Nuremberg trials.

Are we no longer allowed to use terms like 'foot soldier', 'role player', or 'Good, ordinary footballer'? Are they deemed too offensive?

In all seriousness though, we are going a bit far, and the biggest issue IMO is when we're blurring the lines between description and criticism.

For instance, is calling 2008 Stewy Dew overweight for an AFL footballer a criticism, or merely a description?

Is calling Jed Bews a limited footballer who tries his guts out every week a criticism, or a description?

The first example now feels off limits, with the second not far away with how far off track we're getting.

Growth and change is good, and if human history is anything to go by, we've needed to progress a long way from where we started, and even where we were not so long ago.

There comes a point though where we're missing the forest for the trees, and we've taken the goal of growth and sensitivity and lost track of the basic tenants of society, and life as a whole.

If you're an accountant, it makes perfect sense for your weight to remain off limits, or be shared in the public domain.

It's intrusive, and the way you treat your body has zero impact on your ability to work and add value to a company, and therefore earn your salary.

If you're an elite sportsman though who's performance and salary, is largely determined by the composition of your body, then it's fair for that information to be made public.

This isn't charity, these players aren't volunteers.

They are paid extraordinary amounts of money derived from the revenue provided by those who support them. Critiquing their performance, weight, or anything within reason is fair game, and we're not fixing any issues by being progressive and outlawing that.

Was just pondering the stupidity of denying recruiters any access to skinfolds tests.

That data is the direct result of, and reflects, a player's work ethic and drive.

It's data that reveals who is truly serious.

Banning that information denies the recruiter, and club, a very clear insight into the player, and who has the elite attitude to training, and who doesn't.

Crazy.

 

[OzeSparky]

Well said.

Can see the term 'body shape' being banned real soon.

everybody wearing the weight vest.

 

[Cataholic]

everybody wearing the weight vest.

Fitness departments will be nervous about broaching the subject of weight with players.

Some might feel victimised and marginalised if it's suggested that they're not at an ideal playing weight for the elite level.

 

[Mr Meow]

There's a few parallels between 2011-2012-2013 and 2022-2023-2024(?) I reckon.

No peak Selwood as leader/player this time is the main concern and likely caps how far we can go. Stewart/Cameron at each end the closest we've got. It'll need to be a collective step up from a handful.

The extra month's preparation, everyone writing the group off and a mix of elite veterans and promising kids - with something to prove after a disastrous year. Similar ingredients heading into 2013.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

When I first watched Dempsey in the VFL I had to scramble for a team sheet.

This blonde kid had all the tricks, including hangers, lookaways, and blind turns. He had hardly played a dozen games of AFL in the years leading to being drafted.
I said in one post after three or four games the only player who came to mind as (a ceiling for him) was Hird.

Last year he must have been asked to curb the highlights and concentrate on more mundane matters such as getting from contest to contest and increasing his overall influence. Which he did , with the odd highlight.

AFL is tough. Dempsey has IT = talent. But does he have the other IT.....drive

If he has both buckle up.

On SM-G930U using BigFooty.com mobile app

Fewer highlights for him last year but still the vfl team of the year HFF

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Fitness departments will be nervous about broaching the subject of weight with players.

Some might feel victimised and marginalised if it's suggested that they're not at an ideal playing weight for the elite level.

I think the opposite now. Players will probably be more open now that it's not going public

 

[Cataholic]

I think the opposite now. Players will probably be more open now that it's not going public

The poor little flowers.

Lucky for them footy is becoming so woke.

 

[D BRIDGE]

I’m not fussed about the weight thing… although the world is super soft these days.

Weight can fluctuate heaps and I hardly believe what is listed most of the time anyway.

The eye test with weight is good enough for me just as an pure observer.

But if we ever get to the stage when height isn’t listed… god help us.

 

[Obeanie1]

"You’re a professional athlete. You’re not an influencer on social media. Any other sport I can look that up. I can tell you Travis Kelce was 113kg. His quarterback Patrick Mahomes weighs 102kg."

I'm actually impressed that Kelce and Mahomes weigh that much. The NFL players are monsters.

Oh well. I try not to get too outraged these days. Kids are softer maybe but we have improved on issues of mental health, CTE and the like. A few steps forward a few back. As I get older I know I'll get mad more so saving it for big issues like another outrageous attempt at changing the flavour of BBQ Shapes.

Lol. I actually wrote to Anrnotts when they changed to the 'new improved BBQ shapes'.

Basically said why change an iconic product loved by the majority of Australians. And that the new product wasn't as good and wont buy again.

They even replied saying that they had been swamped by customer complaints about changing something so good.

People power won the day.

Wonder who the marketing guru was who suggested the change and how they fared after it all.


And who advised the AFL to stop publishing weights?

Kane Cornes is still going to call out unfit players if they look fat. And the weights published are often years out dated anyway.

 

[Mr Meow]

Lol. I actually wrote to Anrnotts when they changed to the 'new improved BBQ shapes'.

Basically said why change an iconic product loved by the majority of Australians. And that the new product wasn't as good and wont buy again.

They even replied saying that they had been swamped by customer complaints about changing something so good.

People power won the day.

Wonder who the marketing guru was who suggested the change and how they fared after it all.


And who advised the AFL to stop publishing weights?

Kane Cornes is still going to call out unfit players if they look fat. And the weights published are often years out dated anyway.

New recipes are usually to cut costs and improve profit margins. The new product is almost always worse.

 

[Hamingja]

Re the weight thing would have loved to have seen CS reaction to it when he heard. Players medical records (injury list) deemed in the public interest by the AFL but player weights are not

I know which one I wouldn't like on the public record.

 

[cats_09]

This may be an unpopular opinion regarding weight listing debate, but I can kinda understand why the AFL has made this decision, especially when looking at the information they report across the AFLW, VFL & VFWL platforms

They've never listed a player's weight in the AFLW - only height & age. On the VFL app, all players only have their height & player number listed regardless their an AFL & AFLW player or purely VFL & VFLW aligned

They're now standardising what the listed data, and it removes the argument of, "you print the mens weight, why don't you print the womens?", as now they don't print any


Besides, how accurate is the information they release? We know that the 18yr olds may grow a bit from what's published, but height is a pretty stable measurement

A players weight will fluctuate during the season, and if weigh in is in say January then it may well be different by round 1 anyway - and it's not like the info is updated during the season

 

[Kobe Gryant]

"You’re a professional athlete. You’re not an influencer on social media. Any other sport I can look that up. I can tell you Travis Kelce was 113kg. His quarterback Patrick Mahomes weighs 102kg."

I'm actually impressed that Kelce and Mahomes weigh that much. The NFL players are monsters.

Oh well. I try not to get too outraged these days. Kids are softer maybe but we have improved on issues of mental health, CTE and the like. A few steps forward a few back. As I get older I know I'll get mad more so saving it for big issues like another outrageous attempt at changing the flavour of BBQ Shapes.

In depends on position of course, but a lot of it for them is the different compositions of your body.

It's why this whole thing is so ridiculous, as body weight and composition is determined so much by position in sport.

For Mahomes for instance, he's a QB who can move, and as a result, he's got 300 pound men coming from all angles to take his head off.

He needs that extra 'padding' so to speak to survive out there, and he doesn't need to be so lean, because he's only running in short bursts, he doesn't necessarily need endurance.

It's the same with most QBs. Brady, Mahomes, Big Ben...you see them without a shirt on, and your immediate thought is they don't look like a 'typical' athlete.

If anything, they look like an every day guy who works in an office and hits the gym every now and then.

It's the very different makeup to our game, where for the most part you need to be shredded to the bone, with a small amount of muscle.

Big enough that you don't get hurt, but not so big that it impedes your ability to run, which is increasingly important in the modern game.

Mahomes would blow up within a quarter playing footy, he's just not fit enough to do it.

On the other side, Marcus Bontempelli would be in concussion protocol within a few snaps if he played as a QB. He might have some broken ribs too.

The point is though, that's okay, they're different sports, with different requirements.

We're getting so far away from the basic parameters in place that make the sports we love what they are.

There's a game for everybody, of all shapes and sizes. That's 'progressive', and it always has been.

We're making more issues than we're fixing at this point.

 

[OzeSparky]

So we will never know how huge Stevens is.

 

[CHAWKTS]

So we will never know how huge Stevens is.

he should just self disclose - as a flex!

 

[CHAWKTS]

When I first watched Dempsey in the VFL I had to scramble for a team sheet.

This blonde kid had all the tricks, including hangers, lookaways, and blind turns. He had hardly played a dozen games of AFL in the years leading to being drafted.
I said in one post after three or four games the only player who came to mind as (a ceiling for him) was Hird.

Last year he must have been asked to curb the highlights and concentrate on more mundane matters such as getting from contest to contest and increasing his overall influence. Which he did , with the odd highlight.

AFL is tough. Dempsey has IT = talent. But does he have the other IT.....drive

If he has both buckle up.

On SM-G930U using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think that is an excellent summary. I watched most vfl games last year and it was noticeable that he was more subdued and doing more of the “hard work” rather than the flashy stuff. In fact one of the games I was down next to the bench…he came off after going and getting the ball and doing something spectacular for the team….and Egan came over and said that was great but you won’t be able to do that yet in the afl…you need to focus on playing the role we want (which was creating space and running) that will translate into afl if we need you etc. given I assume he wants to play afl he would be doing what he is told will give him best chance.

what I hope is that 2023 was a year of learning (given his background) and creating good habits - and putting the flare away. But that he now has confidence (vfl team of the year, last afl game) to combine the flare and mundane?

I still think he needs and injury to be a round 1 selection. I could argue there is a spot with Smith retirement (who did a lot of HHF). Ollie could take that or Miers could and open his spot for Ollie. But when I do the team I can’t find Dempsey a spot (and he is also competing with man agh). So injruy is the opportunity? From then it is just form

in terms of drive and hard work I have upto info from my track watcher…

Dempsey won the offical shuttle test this week. He has been second the last 3 offical ones (to three different people…Miers then Bowes then Knevitt) and this week he was battling it out with MOC (Knevitte and Miers a couple of seconds beind). Apparantly staff were really impressed - not just the run but the grit…he was 10 metres behind MOC with not long to go and “out-willed” him to get over the line.

in the end he needs to be able to compete and get the ball and make goals happen - but winning things like this keeps his name in the mix with the coaches I suspect. Think it could still be a frustrating year for him but who knows