Autopsy 2024 Rd 21 Carlton vs Collingwood 3 point loss - is our season over?

[Bearded Carpenter]

With respect to the thread title;

‘Few more chapters to be written this season’

I’m backing Patrick ‘Nostradamus’ Cripps to get the boys back on track.

We will make finals, we will go deep.

Comps so even that 1-8 can win it all and it won’t be considered a fluke if a lower qualifier does it.

 

[Coops93]

A very interesting observation, Fev. And it has some similar grounding in other sports too. The word has been very strong for some time that relations between Man Utd and Liverpool are quite cordial off the field, but the collective administrations can’t own up to it because they know their fans would burn their respective stadiums to the ground.

I’d not be surprised if the big four in the AFL are somewhat tight as well.

With all the junior pathways now a lot of these guys are mates prior to senior footy as they've played together or generally been around eachother in some junior program. The same with Soccer, same with American sports.

Aside from it being a big club v big club there's no real hatred, they're all mates - more or less.

The rivalries today are mostly fanbased and have been for a while now across most sports.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Centre bounce stats

Hewett 1 clearance from 23 attendances
Cripps 7 from 21
Walsh 1 from 16
E Hollands 0 from 2
Acres 1 from 2
Kennedy 3 from 11
Martin 0 from 2
Cerra 2 from 4
Fogarty 0 from 1
McKay 0 from 5
Pittonet 3 from 21

 

[carlton_99]

Centre bounce stats

Hewett 12 clearances from 23 attendances
Cripps 7 from 21
Walsh 1 from 16
E Hollands 0 from 2
Acres 1 from 2
Kennedy 3 from 11
Martin 0 from 2
Cerra 2 from 4
Fogarty 0 from 1
McKay 0 from 5
Pittonet 3 from 21

Hewett had 12 centre bounce clearances or just 12 clearances overall?

 

[GoBlues!]

Seems like we’ve had to compromise some positions/players in trying to nurse Cerra back and Cottrell over the last 5 weeks.

Strangely, we may end up playing better with Cerra and Cottrell out both from a team structure point of view and how they’ve both performed over the last 5 games.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Hewett had 12 centre bounce clearances or just 12 clearances overall?

Oops, read from the wrong column. Only 1.

Just highlighting how little we rotate this role.

 

[juzza316]

Bombers doing exactly what we should of done makes me even more sick about this loss.

 

[Gw2_James]

McKay, TDK, Curnow, Weitering and Walsh are all completely irreplaceable

Let’s not overreact

I mean I'm not suggesting trade ALL of them, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think any of them are replaceable. Get list creative, trade surplus, bring in needs.

Could we perhaps lose a big key forward to bring in a better medium sized forward plus a midfielder with speed/skills? Would that make us better?

Are we allocating too much to a ruckman? Have other teams won a premiership without a champion ruckman? I don't personally know the answers but it's stuff like that i hope the list management are asking themselves.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

I mean I'm not suggesting trade ALL of them, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think any of them are replaceable. Get list creative, trade surplus, bring in needs.

Could we perhaps lose a big key forward to bring in a better medium sized forward plus a midfielder with speed/skills? Would that make us better?

Are we allocating too much to a ruckman? Have other teams won a premiership without a champion ruckman? I don't personally know the answers but it's stuff like that i hope the list management are asking themselves.

We don’t have surplus KPD, KPF, Rucks or A grade midfielders - hence the suggestion that none of them should be considered tradable

 

[tarczonandjane]

I've been banging on about lack of leg speed for years. Our best application of our game plan can overcome this and at times, it looked like we might be able to, because it was all about effort.

I also raised my concerns about picking up another midfielder who lacked pace. When Cerra was going well, I came around a little bit. When all else fails, pace is king though.

At the end of the day, you can only go off results. Given where we are right now, the club has got something wrong. So if they know the problems, they need to address the problems.

Full marks to you, ODN.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Full marks to you, ODN.

I don't want credit for my opinions. I get plenty wrong as well, good and bad.

I just want them to fix the obvious. A couch expert like myself shouldn't be anywhere close to thinking ahead of the club. FWIW, I think they know but they have had other priorities and still think that ball use trumps foot speed in all situations.

 

[tarczonandjane]

I don't want credit for my opinions. I get plenty wrong as well, good and bad.

I just want them to fix the obvious. A couch expert like myself shouldn't be anywhere close to thinking ahead of the club. FWIW, I think they know but they have had other priorities and still think that ball use trumps foot speed in all situations.

Well I sort of agree with you here. But my main issue is that I don’t think they’ve prioritised ball use at all. I do think you can get away without foot speed if you have ball use. But when you have neither, it is a tough gig.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I can see Cerra replacing Hewett
Walsh will come back. He’s a star

We need names like Wilson Ben Campo Elijah to step up to possibly add to the mix

Lord looks good but is more a Newcombe type. Carroll is another hard worker but doesn’t add anything different

Cincotta I like as well. Played some great football as a mid at VFL. He does have leg speed and is a very good kick

Can Kemp or Cowan become options? I never considered Cowan until I saw him in the middle in the 2s earlier this year. Looked good

Personally, I want another first round pick this year. There is some genuine midfield talent that we need to add and we need to add a few

no point "adding" if our development is lacking....?

 

[Soapy V]

no point "adding" if our development is lacking....?

So do nothing?

 

[Arr0w]

Centre bounce stats

Hewett 1 clearance from 23 attendances
Cripps 7 from 21
Walsh 1 from 16
E Hollands 0 from 2
Acres 1 from 2
Kennedy 3 from 11
Martin 0 from 2
Cerra 2 from 4
Fogarty 0 from 1
McKay 0 from 5
Pittonet 3 from 21

At least it shows that we tried a number of players

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Well I sort of agree with you here. But my main issue is that I don’t think they’ve prioritised ball use at all. I do think you can get away without foot speed if you have ball use. But when you have neither, it is a tough gig.

I mean they believe as many do, that the ball moves faster in the air than along the ground, so they've ignored the pace factor. For sure, we don't prioritise kicking skills. We prioritise getting to contests and applying pressure, thus the concentration on endurance above all else.

 

[Soapy V]

Centre bounce stats

Hewett 1 clearance from 23 attendances
Cripps 7 from 21
Walsh 1 from 16
E Hollands 0 from 2
Acres 1 from 2
Kennedy 3 from 11
Martin 0 from 2
Cerra 2 from 4
Fogarty 0 from 1
McKay 0 from 5
Pittonet 3 from 21

Not good

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Full marks to you, ODN.

The leg speed myth again - absolute BS.

No one was bitchin' about leg speed when we panted the Cats by 10 goals?

A player who's a quick thinker/good ball user makes up the 0.3 or so seconds of faster leg speed every bloody time he has the ball...

Our shortcoming is plain and simple - stupid (dumb), lazy or poor ball use.

Is that the players or the 'system'? Not sure, likely a mix of both....

Add in a health dose of a lack of 'pressure' across the park - spells disaster.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

So do nothing?

no, course not....

 

[Soapy V]

The leg speed myth again - absolute BS.

No one was bitchin' about leg speed when we panted the Cats by 10 goals?

The cats game again? Why do people only refer to one game we won?

Leg speed is an issue especially defensively. If you can’t catch a player, close gaps quickly, stay with an opponent or have speed to corral or squeeze space it’s a major issue. Sides are really taking us on at every opportunity and it’s exposing us

I do agree skill WITH the ball is as good if not better than leg speed but we lack both

 

[Accidental genius]

Centre bounce stats

Hewett 1 clearance from 23 attendances
Cripps 7 from 21
Walsh 1 from 16
E Hollands 0 from 2
Acres 1 from 2
Kennedy 3 from 11
Martin 0 from 2
Cerra 2 from 4
Fogarty 0 from 1
McKay 0 from 5
Pittonet 3 from 21

Not good

I think tdk was getting 7-8 clearances in one his recent games…maybe just before he was ommited?

I think our good patch leading to the gws game coincided with tdk ripping the mid role apart…was unstoppable.

 

[Accidental genius]

The cats game again? Why do people only refer to one game we won?

Leg speed is an issue especially defensively. If you can’t catch a player, close gaps quickly, stay with an opponent or have speed to corral or squeeze space it’s a major issue. Sides are really taking us on at every opportunity and it’s exposing us

I do agree skill WITH the ball is as good if not better than leg speed but we lack both

Only gotta look at the gws game…their 2-3 little speedy guys torched us with the pace.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

The cats game again? Why do people only refer to one game we won?

Leg speed is an issue especially defensively. If you can’t catch a player, close gaps quickly, stay with an opponent or have speed to corral or squeeze space it’s a major issue. Sides are really taking us on at every opportunity and it’s exposing us

I do agree skill WITH the ball is as good if not better than leg speed but we lack both

That's facile - the reference to the cats game again....

We didn't leak goals in 2023 - so what's the difference defensively?

Same crew, yet 4th lowest last year...



And it's not the 'they've worked us out' spiel....

 

[Soapy V]

Only gotta look at the gws game…their 2-3 little speedy guys torched us with the pace.

The club must feel the same way. This is what Austin said about drafting Wilson last year

“His speed is a real point of difference for us. I know he’s listed as a general defender, but we love what he did as an inside midfielder in the back half of the year and through the finals. Playing pure inside, he did some fantastic things. He’s super clean, his burst and his ball use was terrific. That’s a point of difference for us as a midfield group."

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Only gotta look at the gws game…their 2-3 little speedy guys torched us with the pace.

you burn the ball, offer up cheap turnovers, everyone torches you....