Preview 2024 Rd 21 Carlton vs Collingwood Saturday 3rd August 7:30PM AEST @ MCG

[Aphrodite]

Team is in …



MILESTONE: Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

150 AFL Games

AFL team news: Martin returns for game 150

A milestone for a returning Blue among four changes to the Round 21 team.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[morningbrown]

Happy with the changes.

Martin in that forward line makes us so much more dangerous.

If Ollie isn't sub I'll spew up. You don't make your best small forward or most versatile mid (Kennedy) the sub.

Thank god Cez is in the middle.

Hewett to Daicos.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Our vfl backline tore him a new one 2 weeks ago. I’m pretty sure Adam saad could beat him.

U sure?

Kemp made Esvata Ratatoullie look All Australian.

 

[jj1978]

Our vfl backline tore him a new one 2 weeks ago. I’m pretty sure Adam saad could beat him.

Yeah but he could be his turn for the typical less impactful player to become a superstar for a game when playing us.

 

[juzza316]

Well, he’s not a forward and have no idea why they decided to swap him and Kemp halfway through the last when the damage was done already up back.

Clubs have worked us out up back, doesn’t matter if you’re an average key forward our lack of height in defence is being exposed badly and Collingwood will do it again this week.

They’ll have a combination of Cox, McStay, Frampton, Howe, Cameron go through the forward line.

Selection this year has been incredibly bad and we’ll get what we deserve because of it


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Cox/Cameron = Weitering
Mcstay = Mcgovern
Howe/Frampton = Kemp

They won't have all 5 at the one time, will be max of 3. Can obviously throw our 3 'tall' backmen around pending suitability.

I'd rather that, then having Young play.

 

[Red_man2008]

Happy with the changes.

Martin in that forward line makes us so much more dangerous.

If Ollie isn't sub I'll spew up. You don't make your best small forward or most versatile mid (Kennedy) the sub.

Thank god Cez is in the middle.

Hewett to Daicos.

It doesn’t matter if Martin is 100% for yet because his impact comes in drawing the double teams away from Harry and Charlie and he is also very good at blocking for both when they lead up.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

LOL at thinking he wouldn't.

He won't lol...

have you not seen enough of him to know this by now? He's not up to it... he cost us a multitude of goals last time v Pies and Kemp didn't play...

Young didn't play when we convincingly beat them late last year and Kemp did...

Team defence first and foremost but Young is a momentum killer. He's hardly better defensively and every time he gets the pill he takes his default 10 seconds+ before disposing of it. At least Kemp has ticker and will attack and open up opportunities for us...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Interesting Young dropped after just one game when we desperately need another genuine tall in defence. Has two years to go on contract that club extended by three way before his original deal was up.

Be a big call to pay him out but it's obvious we don't rate him.

After the last Collingwood game Voss doesn't want him anywhere near our back line again... can't blame him.

That's why he opted to play Young forward last week when all logic would have dictated that either Kemp or Gov moves forward instead.

 

[Benaly28]

I could be completely wrong but something tells me that they’ve set themselves for these next 4 weeks and beyond.




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[Blue_Fusion]

Well, he’s not a forward and have no idea why they decided to swap him and Kemp halfway through the last when the damage was done already up back.

Clubs have worked us out up back, doesn’t matter if you’re an average key forward our lack of height in defence is being exposed badly and Collingwood will do it again this week.

They’ll have a combination of Cox, McStay, Frampton, Howe, Cameron go through the forward line.

Selection this year has been incredibly bad and we’ll get what we deserve because of it

Frampton? lol scary...

Howe is 190cm... hardly a height factor, it's more his athleticism...

Cox and Cameron combined have kicked 10 goals this year. Last time we played, they kicked a combined... ONE goal... and that was without Gov and Kemp in the team...

McStay has played 2 games of football after an ACL. Mihocek was held goalless last time we played.

Even last week, Ratugolea only kicked 2.. it's not like he destroyed us.

Young was a massive liability last time... there's a reason that we haven't seen him since until last week when we literally had no choice...

 

[teagueyubeauty]

So how do you suggest that we structure up our backline with what we currently have available?

Clearly our preferred choice was having Marchbank in there but that ship appears to have sailed due to injury/hit the wall. One of our options was S. Durdin but he is a scratching for the same reasons.

Interested to hear how you see that it should be selected?

Young, don’t care what people have to say about him he’s proven he can do the job previously.
I think he’s been harshly treated at times, just needs to be the lockdown defender and not try and be anything else.

Bringing him in last week up forward was just dumb, and then he gets dropped yet the bloke who got beaten down back and is getting beaten more regularly than not stays in the team this week and will be up against more giants he’s proven he can’t handle which is not his fault I put that blame on selection


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[teagueyubeauty]

Cox/Cameron = Weitering
Mcstay = Mcgovern
Howe/Frampton = Kemp

They won't have all 5 at the one time, will be max of 3. Can obviously throw our 3 'tall' backmen around pending suitability.

I'd rather that, then having Young play.

Be prepared for Kemp to be beaten again by a key position spud that’s all I’ll say


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[teagueyubeauty]

After the last Collingwood game Voss doesn't want him anywhere near our back line again... can't blame him.

That's why he opted to play Young forward last week when all logic would have dictated that either Kemp or Gov moves forward instead.

Going on selection this year, Voss and co have made plenty of mistakes


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[Blues_1864]

Agree he makes our forward line better.

But.

We as a club and we as people are supposed to be able to learn from our mistakes, that’s if we even know we are making them. If Jack is fit, then its a big boost but i doubt how fit a player can be, who by reports hasn’t even got through a full VFL match, since coming back.

Losing Cunners in the first quarter last week, really cost us, so if Martin breaks down then yes, i think we have lost something. I have always been hot and cold on Jack, sometimes i see why he’s rated so highly and then i notice, that even in games where people say he plays well, he often goes quarters or even halves of football where he either doesnt touch the ball or lay a tackle, or he gets 1-2 touches.

Im not sure also what type of standards Voss is setting if, after long injury lay offs, players are coming straight back in to the team or coming back via limited minutes in the VFL, we have also had players included in the senior team. After many here said they played poorly in the VFL.

Time will tell if its a good move, seems to be another selection risk to me.

I think there has to be a forward-planning element as well. We have to be looking at how we integrate Martin into our finals tilt... and given that he's uninjured in the past month, starting him in the seniors with 4 games to go seems like a logical way to start. Maybe that plan won't survive first engagement with the Collingwood defence, but it's getting so late in the season that we need to find out. I do think it's now or never. History suggests a top-3 finish is necessary to seriously contend for the flag, and I don't think we can countenance a situation where we lose to Collingwood, then wonder afterwards whether picking Martin might have made a difference.

(I think there is also a bit of jaundice in how we view players returning from injury. Obviously there has been widespread and at least partially justified criticism of Cerra and Cottrell, but when Saad and Fogarty returned from extended layoffs and were immediately excellent, absolutely no-one talked about it - we took it for granted. There has been good as well as bad.)

Re stats, I think Martin is the highest impact-per-stat player on our list, a difference-maker, and so important to us structurally. "Curnow camp" or not, he was the one that enabled us to flick the switch halfway through last year, just because he demands a good defender, and he finds space and/or runs to the right places, more so than Kennedy (and that's not a criticism of Kennedy, who has been very serviceable forward recently). It doesn't sound like much, but the threat he poses greatly impedes the ability of the opposition's spare defender to double-team either of our key forwards, so his impact is that Curnow and McKay get better-quality looks more often, more so than his own numbers. But I also like the statless things he does around the ball - blocks and bumps and clever tap-ons, which deliver good things to his teammates.

Might he break down? Yep. Can it go worse than Cuningham? I would say... no. Boiling it down that far, I don't think we'll be worse off, no matter what happens.

 

[RAPPA]

All said and done, we really shouldn’t have been having these defensive depth issues after the off season. Last year was the opportune time to address that concern and sweet FA was done. Seemingly sucked in by the “pieces aligning” of Marchbank playing a block of footy leading into the finals and Kemp was holding up ok.

The only available “hail Mary’ talls to slot into the backline are either no good (Young) or untried at senior level (Lemmey and Akuei, with the latter not being much taller than Kemp if at all).

Frankly then we need more from our midfield to defend the incoming ball and lock in the contest, and our forwards need to stop the rebound.

 

[SpiritOfCarlton]

I'd be getting all the forwards to wear spleen/kidney guards.

 

[Blue Reaper]

I can ask.

Last time i asked about him, the issue was he continued to fly for to much (without getting the result i.e mark), which he had been told not to. So he continues to take risks that just aren't paying off. I personally like that he is backing himself but if he is hurting the team against direct instruction you can see why they would drop him / not be happy.

this was well prior to his drop of in form / being beaten a lot in the last few weeks.

but the discussions didn't center on where else they see him playing.

leave it with me.

Thanks. Would be interesting to hear.

That instinct of his to fly and back himself just screams forward nous.

 

[Blue By Blood]

All said and done, we really shouldn’t have been having these defensive depth issues after the off season. Last year was the opportune time to address that concern and sweet FA was done. Seemingly sucked in by the “pieces aligning” of Marchbank playing a block of footy leading into the finals and Kemp was holding up ok.

The only available “hail Mary’ talls to slot into the backline are either no good (Young) or untried at senior level (Lemmey and Akuei, with the latter not being much taller than Kemp if at all).

Frankly then we need more from our midfield to defend the incoming ball and lock in the contest, and our forwards need to stop the rebound.

Which is why we need to rotate more through the midfield and keep our guys fresh. Too much heavy lifting is left to Cripps, Walsh, and Hewett. Get Cerra in there. Get Kennedy in there. Get Elijah in there. Give Walsh time on the wing. Get Cripps up forward for bursts. So much defensive work is left to our wings, particularly Acres. It’s not all on the mids though. Our defenders need to be more selfless and stop solely self preserving and worrying about their own man. They rarely (Weitering aside) peel off to help out. Play on instinct and attack the oppo, no corralling, no hesitation. Rush the opponent to dispose and force error. Immense pressure and intent is the key to winning. Attack with ball in hand. Hunt the oppo aggressively without the ball.

 

[katmanblue]

Wonder how many times we'll see the flog in Maynard "accidentally" knee or knock Weiters quads and Martins calves.

And our boys do nothing about it.

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[JuddgementDay]

Team is in …

View attachment 2065415

MILESTONE: Jack Martin 150 AFL Games

AFL team news: Martin returns for game 150

A milestone for a returning Blue among four changes to the Round 21 team.

www.carltonfc.com.au

View attachment 2065416

This is the best team we've fielded all year - which best 22 is missing?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Well, he’s not a forward and have no idea why they decided to swap him and Kemp halfway through the last when the damage was done already up back.

Clubs have worked us out up back, doesn’t matter if you’re an average key forward our lack of height in defence is being exposed badly and Collingwood will do it again this week.

They’ll have a combination of Cox, McStay, Frampton, Howe, Cameron go through the forward line.

Selection this year has been incredibly bad and we’ll get what we deserve because of it


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I agree. But. They didn't actually send kemp forward. They just sent young back. It was really odd

 

[carlton_99]

This is the best team we've fielded all year - which best 22 is missing?

I'd say TDK, Williams and Doc for Pitt, O.Hollands and whatever small forward is out of form. JSOS for Martin is arguable as well. But I agree on paper a very strong team.

 

[katmanblue]

I could be completely wrong but something tells me that they’ve set themselves for these next 4 weeks and beyond.




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They, as in us?

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[JJBagger]

All said and done, we really shouldn’t have been having these defensive depth issues after the off season. Last year was the opportune time to address that concern and sweet FA was done. Seemingly sucked in by the “pieces aligning” of Marchbank playing a block of footy leading into the finals and Kemp was holding up ok.

The only available “hail Mary’ talls to slot into the backline are either no good (Young) or untried at senior level (Lemmey and Akuei, with the latter not being much taller than Kemp if at all).

Frankly then we need more from our midfield to defend the incoming ball and lock in the contest, and our forwards need to stop the rebound.

This is all in hindsight. I think most people were pretty happy with our defensive stocks after last season

 

[myblueroan]

VOSSY QUOTE FROM HIS PRESSER

We need to gather that momentum coming into the
backend of the season. Every week we’re stepping out there trying to look for the next moment to do that,
I wouldn’t mind it being this weekend."

Me too Vossy. Me too.

 

[RPCB]

Clearly the MC also see why Cottrell is important to our structure, a late pick who has outlasted flaky top 10 draft picks

He averages 11 disposals a game. If we can grab an upgrade in free agency, do it.