Preview 2024 Second Elimination Final: Western Bulldogs v Hawthorn, 6 September 2024, 7.40pm @ MCG

[Sixpence]

We play 2 games at the G a year .

Tiges game this year was damp but not exactly wet. We played 3 games wet i can think of this year. Gws at spotless was very wet and we smoked them. Geelong at kardina (smoked them) and against gws in ballarat as soon at the rain came we smoked them.

You lot seem really insecure any time someone suggests that rain will suit us more. I'm really not sure where your confidence comes from? The first game against GWS was your typical wet weather low scoring affair, the Geelong game rained a little at the start and was just muddy after and the last game rained for all of 5 mins at the end. None of those games are even remotely comparable to us smashing Collingwood by 60+ and North by 120+ when both games were pissing down all game.

Rain by no means guarantees us a win, but it certainly helps us more.

 

[RoughysMullet]

Do u not watch us play? We are superb in the wet. Our talls are great at ground level.

Should be a cracking game rain, hail or shine haha

Ship off mate you play your home games on a ground with a roof FFS

 

[Roddy]

My weather app says Friday will be the warmest day of the next week and a half, but with 40% chance of rain…

 

[Bedi]

Jiath everyday over Maginness, so that's the only change i'd make.

 

[mknaven]

If CJ was good to go, i imagined he would come in.
From the match reports earlier in the year, CJ chopped in the VFL during his managed minutes and rightly came up.
Based on yesterday's consensus reports, he is not coming up.

Ward has better disposal than Finn, but is by no means an elite user, so to suggest Ward would be brought in for his disposal is laughable.

I was disappointed with Finn's disposal against the 'roos, but he was still really strong over the ball.

The weekend provided zero reasons to change a dominant team from the last game.

 

[Franko Armani]

I’m not sure who will go out from Morrison and Maginness but I’m fairly sure CJ will come back in.

He was only ever out due to injury, not form. So I’m not convinced his run at BHH required him to do much more than prove his fitness to get through.

It was a very scrappy game and hard for an outside player to perform well. I think CJ plays better with the familiarity and cleaner skills of the Hawthorn side.

Some sense here. Anyone stop to think that CJ has played exactly half a game with that Box Hill side all year? No familiarity or continuity with that side. If he’s fit he slots straight back in, for Morrison preferably, as he has form for going missing in big games. And before you say it, he hasn’t played in big one this year that’s been on the line.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Jiath everyday over Maginness, so that's the only change i'd make.

You have to reward form if there are going to be forced changes, and by that metric CJ is well down the list of potential ins.

 

[Bedi]

You have to reward form if there are going to be forced changes, and by that metric CJ is well down the list of potential ins.

i didnt rate Finn's game against North, so am ok taking the gamble based on BH form

 

[Sixpence]

Really hope this wind ****s off by Friday.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Really hope this wind ****s off by Friday.

****ing over it.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Morrison has finals experience and is in form.

Finn can cover through the midfield when required in Will Day's absence.

If CJ is brought back in for either then he'd want to play out of his skin to justify it!

 

[Yardie]

Some sense here. Anyone stop to think that CJ has played exactly half a game with that Box Hill side all year? No familiarity or continuity with that side. If he’s fit he slots straight back in, for Morrison preferably, as he has form for going missing in big games. And before you say it, he hasn’t played in big one this year that’s been on the line.

When CJ played in the two's earlier in the year it was obvious he was well above everyone else. It would appear he is struggling at the moment, either with form or fitness, hence why people are hesitant to bring him back in.

 

[badgrill]

CRAWF!!!!

 

[Sirlemsip]

Anyone who watched the BHH final would agree that CJ is not coming in for this game. He just didn't do enough.

Finn was great, as was Ward and Serong - if anyone is coming in it would be Ward or Serong.

Honestly, if it looks like a dry evening, I'd be tempted to bring Serong in - he has had an amazing season in the VFL and his last few games have all been excellent.
As others have said Serong in would allow us to move Weddle to the midfield rotation to replace Day.

I'm just not confident that Finn is what we need in this one.

I trust in Sam and the team he selects along with the rest of the match committee (even if they decide to bring in CJ)

 

[Hawkspot]

Morrison has finals experience and is in form.

Finn can cover through the midfield when required in Will Day's absence.

If CJ is brought back in for either then he'd want to play out of his skin to justify it!

I don’t see Morrison as being in form, he got a few touches behind the ball the last couple of games in huge wins but he basically never got the ball where a wingman should - on the outside on moving.

CJ basically only gets the ball on the move, and when he does his speed drags other players to him and creates an overlap/outnumber ahead of the ball. It’s what we rely on to move the ball.

CJ getting the ball on the run 10 times a game.

Though I think both should play.

 

[OhhhhhCyril]

Anyone who watched the BHH final would agree that CJ is not coming in for this game. He just didn't do enough.

Finn was great, as was Ward and Serong - if anyone is coming in it would be Ward or Serong.

Honestly, if it looks like a dry evening, I'd be tempted to bring Serong in - he has had an amazing season in the VFL and his last few games have all been excellent.
As others have said Serong in would allow us to move Weddle to the midfield rotation to replace Day.

I'm just not confident that Finn is what we need in this one.

I trust in Sam and the team he selects along with the rest of the match committee (even if they decide to bring in CJ)

Agree with this.
Cant possibly see how they bring CJ in off his BHH game.
Finn if he doesn't have a specific role doesn't offer enough and his disposal is poor
Serong offers more flexabillity

 

[peetoo]

CJ moving OK at training fwiw

We won’t fiddle with a winning formula too much

 

[RoughysMullet]

Reckon we go in unchanged - Finn’s disposal is still a problem although I feel he’s improved a little. A part of me still doesn’t trust Morrison in a big physical pressure moment in a final- but I spose if we’re relying on that we don’t deserve to win

 

[Blackhawk42]

I don’t see Morrison as being in form, he got a few touches behind the ball the last couple of games in huge wins but he basically never got the ball where a wingman should - on the outside on moving.

CJ basically only gets the ball on the move, and when he does his speed drags other players to him and creates an overlap/outnumber ahead of the ball. It’s what we rely on to move the ball.

CJ getting the ball on the run 10 times a game.

Though I think both should play.

Against Carlton he had 20 disposals, 3 tackles, a goal, 4 inside 50's and 4 rebound 50's.
Was the perfect wingers game.

The closest CJ has come to that was the Collingwood game, where he also had 20 touches and 3 inside 50's.

Aside from that, the only thing CJ really has to hang his hat on is his two-way running and 'width holding'.

Harry is a much more stable selection, and also has finals experience. If it's between the two I'm taking Morrison on exposed form.

 

[peetoo]

CJ moving OK at training fwiw

We won’t fiddle with a winning formula too much

Came off the ground earlier than most


Been blowing a gale here all morning. Can only imagine how strong it is blowing at whiten oval

 

[Franko Armani]

I don’t see Morrison as being in form, he got a few touches behind the ball the last couple of games in huge wins but he basically never got the ball where a wingman should - on the outside on moving.

CJ basically only gets the ball on the move, and when he does his speed drags other players to him and creates an overlap/outnumber ahead of the ball. It’s what we rely on to move the ball.

CJ getting the ball on the run 10 times a game.

Though I think both should play.

Yes, exactly this.

 

[Buttonsticher]

Hope the boys watch the 08' QF for a bit of inspiration. Kicking skills were insanely good.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I don’t see Morrison as being in form, he got a few touches behind the ball the last couple of games in huge wins but he basically never got the ball where a wingman should - on the outside on moving.

CJ basically only gets the ball on the move, and when he does his speed drags other players to him and creates an overlap/outnumber ahead of the ball. It’s what we rely on to move the ball.

CJ getting the ball on the run 10 times a game.

Though I think both should play.

He hasn't really been getting the ball and running ten times a game though as he's only averaging 11.9 touches.

He's had four bounces from his eleven games and is averaging 240.45m gained per game. Ward, in his ten games, also has four bounces and 241.2m gained, but with better disposal.

It would be hard to take Mitchell seriously when he says players need to earn their spots, or that he'd reward form, if he rushes CJ back into the side after a year of poor form and a very underwhelming game at VFL level. Meanwhile Finn, Ward and Serong have all played really well consistently at VFL level.

 

[unitedhawk]

There has been plenty of debate over the past few days on the exclusion of a second specialist winger from the AA side. Personally, I think the selectors erred by not including Massimo. Perhaps they haven’t yet adjusted their thinking to accept the increasingly important part wingers play in the faster-paced modern game.

I regard the discussion in this thread about which two from CJ/Finn/Morrison/Ward to pick against the Bulldogs, as a microcosm of the AA debate. On the wider wings of the G, a winger’s role becomes even more important, especially given our own game plan. Fwiw, here are my thoughts:

It’s no secret that Sam’s first preference would be have a fit and firing CJ on our right wing. That said, the debate about whether CJ is (fully) fit and firing is a valid one. It boils down to whether Sam and the selection panel reckon the pros CJ offers - making the opposite winger accountable by opening up channels with his offensive running and covering down back with his defensive running - outweigh the cons, which are his (currently) oft-fumbly and hurried disposals.

Morrison’s calmness and efficiency with his disposals make him a reliable option who’ll never let us down. He may lack CJ’s X-factor but will rarely be a less than a 7 out of 10 in terms of his output.

Finn’s ineffective disposals make him a bit of a liability. I only watched the opening stages of the BHH game on Saturday due to other commitments but that was enough to cast familiar doubts. There was one instance when Finn burst out of a centre bounce and then laced it out straight into the lap of the opposing CHB. We can’t afford that in a final and I can’t see Finn playing unless he has a specific task to shut down either Ed Richards

20

Ed Richards

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

MG

201.4

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.3

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

198.3

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

232.4

4star

or Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

. I doubt Sam will go with a pure tagging option, given we haven’t done that for a while, but I wouldn’t put it past him to throw Bevo a finals curveball.

I would really, really love Ward to be a 200-gamer with us but he may need another good pre-season to become a bull in his preferred inside mid role. I’m not sure whether he has the physicality for a finals campaign just yet.

Regardless of which way Sam goes, I reckon we have more than enough to beat the Doggies, given it’s on the wide expanses of the G. If we can break even in the middle, I think we’ll eventually run them off their feet. If Nashy can restrict Bont to less than 20 - or 20+ largely ineffective - disposals, as he has done in the past, that may prove to be the decisive factor.

Go Hawks - or should that now be Hoks?!

 

[H00t]

Against Carlton he had 20 disposals, 3 tackles, a goal, 4 inside 50's and 4 rebound 50's.
Was the perfect wingers game.

The closest CJ has come to that was the Collingwood game, where he also had 20 touches and 3 inside 50's.

Aside from that, the only thing CJ really has to hang his hat on is his two-way running and 'width holding'.

Harry is a much more stable selection, and also has finals experience. If it's between the two I'm taking Morrison on exposed form.

Morrison is going to get more disposals and more involved on the offensive side of things than CJ.

Where Morrison gets caught out is on the defensive side of things. He simply can’t chase and close space very well. CJ does a mountain of unrewarded running that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet but makes us much more defensively stable.

As solid as Morrison has been if CJ is fit he comes back in no questions asked. Looking at the VFL game though he doesn’t look like he’s getting to his top speed in which case Morrison will stay in.