List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Tommy Wigs]

Collard looked really engaged and enjoying the banter with the other players the morning I saw him training. Coming from where he has if we can get him to 100% of his potential, Lance and the club will deserve everything that comes there way. Its so heartening to see indigineous kids love being at Moorabbin, its a sure sign the club are really well run behind the scenes. I dont think Tony Brown and our indigineous welfare officer Auntie Katrina get enough kudos for the work they do with all these kids. Great stuff Sainters!

And kudos for the post

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Collard 3 years... The club believes.

More importantly Collard believes.

 

[gringo2011]

Come on mate enough of the 'sky is falling' stuff. We were never going to be challening in 2025 with the list the way it was, if anyone believed that they were not in touch. Lyon is not perfect but the club have never been better adminstrated or run. How about we keep our 'powder dry' and see what the trade/draft periods bring and see where 2025 takes us.

We all have our moments of despair with the club and how they go about things, but this time around it feels like they might finally get things right.

I'm not saying otherwise but they can't let shit drag out for ever just because he's a bit better than the last guy. We need to move forward fast. Next year will be four years since we changed tack from top up to drafting and those guys should be coming into their fast rise point.

Players like Pou will be third year and hitting 50 games. King, Sharman, Henry, Windghager, Owens, Sharman, Snags should all be hitting their most consistent footy etc. Ross has come in and gets the benefit of the past and has had heaps added including every thing he could want in his footy department.

We can't let him buy time forever though. He needs to get us into finals and start pushing up from there. This list has plenty of depth and enough good youth to rise fast. If he can't do anything with it there is a problem. This year injury hurt him. He gets next year to make a big jump and then we need to ask questions. Finals aren't the absolute minimum but there would want to be mitigating circumstances.

I don't have despair I have high standards and don't listen to excuses and obfuscation. There is no reason why we should accept mediocrity, low standards or a lack of competitiveness. Being a bit better than we were isn't a destination, it's another step forward in a series of steps forward. We need to keep raising the bar.

 

[Joffaboy]

Suppose the fact he plays more like Jane then Tarzan has something to do with it.

If that's the case he won't be anywhere near a Lyon team. See Bonner for reference. Couldn't learn to defend so out.
Also we have a 3rd tall that sags off and isn't great at defence ( so far) in Arie.

For a second rounder and if he turns up at the Saints. Lyon thinks he has something to work with.

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[ScrappyDo]

Dont worry SOS I’ve got our off season sorted already just follow the below instructions

Ins/outs

Outs

Campbell
Matt Allison
James Van Es
Bonner
Seb Ross
Battle

Membrey
Ben Paton
Crouch

Ins

Trades
1. James Peatling
2. Tomlinson/Third Mccartin Brother/Jai Serong/Patrick Voss
3. Soldo/Nick Bryan

Draft

Pick 7 - Sam Lalor
Pick 8 - Murphy Reid
Pick 24 - ??? (Dalrymple Speculative pick)
Pick 43 - Elwood Peckett
Pick 50 - Adrien Cole
Cat B Rookie - Lennox Hofman

This is a good list and prospective outcome. The only real issue for me is that you've gone and selected that hopeless shittruck Murphy Reid with one of our top picks.
May as well just flush it straight down the toilet and save the world the wasted time on draft night. Lord knows it's already as painful as they can make it, but then you want to go and do that to us as well ffs.
The rest is pretty good though.

 

[BigMonty]

More importantly Collard believes.

Would trade Collard personally dontvlike his vibe. I hope I am wrong. If WCE/ Dockers came shopping with a 2nd rounder in this draft, I would take it.

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[gringo2011]

Wish I had your optimisim with our list mate hahaha couple years off a flag far out.

You want to be in challenge mode by then or a while older generation will be gone and we'll be sitting middle table again. We managed to get middle table with nearly zero benefit from the national draft in the last 20 years.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Trading King (which won’t happen) would be his lowest market value he will have from now to when he’s 30.. The guy has Superstar potential, the last 2 years he hasn’t beeen healthy. When he is healthy we’ve seen what he’s capable of. So I suggest which I’m sure the club also believes, that we do everything we can do to get his body right. Not trade him or try develop him in other positions.

Wasn’t a deal supposedly being reported and worked on a couple of months back? Long term deal. What happened?

 

[Joffaboy]

I'm not saying otherwise but they can't let shit drag out for ever just because he's a bit better than the last guy. We need to move forward fast. Next year will be four years since we changed tack from top up to drafting and those guys should be coming into their fast rise point.

Players like Pou will be third year and hitting 50 games. King, Sharman, Henry, Windghager, Owens, Sharman, Snags should all be hitting their most consistent footy etc. Ross has come in and gets the benefit of the past and has had heaps added including every thing he could want in his footy department.

We can't let him buy time forever though. He needs to get us into finals and start pushing up from there. This list has plenty of depth and enough good youth to rise fast. If he can't do anything with it there is a problem. This year injury hurt him. He gets next year to make a big jump and then we need to ask questions. Finals aren't the absolute minimum but there would want to be mitigating circumstances.

I don't have despair I have high standards and don't listen to excuses and obfuscation. There is no reason why we should accept mediocrity, low standards or a lack of competitiveness. Being a bit better than we were isn't a destination, it's another step forward in a series of steps forward. We need to keep raising the bar.

He was given four years for a reason. He is halfway through.
Improvement next season otherwise his 4th will full of pressure as it should be.

Any talk about a new coach is just moot.



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[ScrappyDo]

How does that work in Adelaide? They already have 3 huge forwards

Because Tex is 100 years old.

 

[ScrappyDo]

So Collard would be 3 years on top of his rookie contract? Before Wilson?
I’m not against it, but seems unlikely.
I believe in his talent and it shows he’s not a flight risk, so I hope so.

No, it'll be a 2 year extension, 3 years including 2025. Just media hype.

 

[gringo2011]

Would trade Collard personally dontvlike his vibe. I hope I am wrong. If WCE/ Dockers came shopping with a 2nd rounder in this draft, I would take it.

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My cynicism thought that we were locking him up so that we held some trade leverage if he decides to go home. Seems a long tenure for a guy who still looks a long way off. On raw talent he's got heaps going for him but needs a rocket and to start playing with urgency.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

If that's the case he won't be anywhere near a Lyon team. See Bonner for reference. Couldn't learn to defend so out.
Also we have a 3rd tall that sags off and isn't great at defence ( so far) in Arie.

For a second rounder and if he turns up at the Saints. Lyon thinks he has something to work with.

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I did have Arie in mind too, and despite the age gap, Lukocius is very likely to always have him covered in the air (and quite possibly defending).

 

[Sol Goodman]

Apparently he is open to a vic club and suns would take as little as a decent second round pick

What! If JL is available for that cheap I'd be seriously jumping at that. I'm a huge fan, he hasn't reached his full potential yet. He has break out big time in his next contract written all over him.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Nah, a rebuild is a very different thing. He’s not doing that but that’s the timeframe people wanna give him.

I agree with you on the improvement but we also finished 12th and only climbed that high because we started winning games when it didn’t matter anymore. We can see onfield improvement in gamestyle, ball movement etc. but ultimately the measure is wins and losses.

I’m actually not impatient, making finals next year isn’t some stupid lofty unrealistic goal, we did it in 23 with what everyone said was a trash list which everyone also said has now been improved.

Like you I see no reason why we shouldn’t improve so if we don’t I’d have no issue with Ross not getting his fourth year. As you say, questions will be asked.

Agree with most of your post.
The bold part was, imo, we started winning games when most of our players were back and fit.
It’s not like we started playing better just because the pressure of making finals was off. There was a direct correlation between our best 22 players coming back - all bar Crouch, King and Henry, and our game coming together.
I also agree that we should be making finals next year - given, of course, a much healthier injury list.
To me, there’s a big difference between 2 and 3 seasons with a new coaching team, and that’s why it’s too soon for me to judge. End of next season is a different matter altogether.

 

[gringo2011]

He was given four years for a reason. He is halfway through.
Improvement next season otherwise his 4th will full of pressure as it should be.

Any talk about a new coach is just moot.



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Don't seem to be saying much different except that he won't get a fourth year if he doesn't perform if I have my preference. I think he will perform and next year should improve but if he doesn't the pressure should be enough to get him removed earlier if a better option is available.

 

[gringo2011]

I did have Arie in mind too, and despite the age gap, Lukocius is very likely to always have him covered in the air (and quite possibly defending).

Ari is more like Bonner or Daniel Rich. Doubt he's ever a KP or third tall, he's a kicking distributor. He would be better off as a replacement for Nas down back and get Nas up on a wing. Get the ball into his hands and he'll break lines by foot.

Luko is probably closest to a Mason Wood IMO. He's a big guy but not a KP. I think he could play Battle's role where he goes out to meet the ball and move it quickly rather than being a tight one on one though.

 

[ScrappyDo]

My cynicism thought that we were locking him up so that we held some trade leverage if he decides to go home. Seems a long tenure for a guy who still looks a long way off. On raw talent he's got heaps going for him but needs a rocket and to start playing with urgency.

"If" the rumours are true, the kid might just need to feel like he belongs.

 

[gringo2011]

What! If JL is available for that cheap I'd be seriously jumping at that. I'm a huge fan, he hasn't reached his full potential yet. He has break out big time in his next contract written all over him.

I've seen some of his good games and he can look outstanding at times.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm not saying otherwise but they can't let shit drag out for ever just because he's a bit better than the last guy. We need to move forward fast. Next year will be four years since we changed tack from top up to drafting and those guys should be coming into their fast rise point.

And just who would you hire who would ensure it doesn’t keep dragging out forever. Who would move us forward fast?

Which proven coach is available?

I’d suggest none.

And any unproven coach would be a more risky proposition than the incumbent.

There’s a feeling that there may eventually be a transition to Enright, and if that were to happen I suspect it will happen in an orderly fashion.

No need to burn the place down yet.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Ari is more like Bonner or Daniel Rich. Doubt he's ever a KP or third tall, he's a kicking distributor. He would be better off as a replacement for Nas down back and get Nas up on a wing. Get the ball into his hands and he'll break lines by foot.

Luko is probably closest to a Mason Wood IMO. He's a big guy but not a KP. I think he could play Battle's role where he goes out to meet the ball and move it quickly rather than being a tight one on one though.

It looks like that now but Ari is a big lump of a kid and will fill out substantially. Another couple of years in development will go a long way.

 

[gringo2011]

"If" the rumours are true, the kid might just need to feel like he belongs.

I hope so. He has serious ability. He looks like someone that will never be an intense full-on effort 100% of the time type. More a drift into games and kick his 3 goals with no-one even noticing him before that.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I hope so. He has serious ability. He looks like someone that will never be an intense full-on effort 100% of the time type. More a drift into games and kick his 3 goals with no-one even noticing him before that.

He'll learn work ethic or he'll be gone.

 

[gringo2011]

And just who would you hire who would ensure it doesn’t keep dragging out forever. Who would move us forward fast?

Which proven coach is available?

I’d suggest none.

And any unproven coach would be a more risky proposition than the incumbent.

There’s a feeling that there may eventually be a transition to Enright, and if that were to happen I suspect it will happen in an orderly fashion.

No need to burn the place down yet.

That's why you interview and and recruit rather than go off a vibe from a distance. The guy who runs the club owns a recruiting business. Maybe he can organise some HR staff to find a new one.

I haven't said that we should get rid of him. I wanted Lyon and thought that he was a good fit. He's done some great stuff so far but he's not the messiah. He's here to get results and at the end of the day that's the measurement of his success. If he doesn't get them he should be replaced.

I hope we don't just go Enright because of convenience and do some show interviews to justify taking him. We need to be on a mission to get the absolute best of the best whenever we recruit staff.

 

[gringo2011]

He'll learn work ethic or he'll be gone.

Don't know if that's his bag to be honest. He looks like a burst impact player.