List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[stavro#4]

I may have missed it but has anyone credible linked us to Kennedy in the media or here? Or is his name just speculative at the moment.

The age. Peter Ryan & Mark McGowan co authored.

St Kilda, Collingwood and Geelong are being linked to Kennedy, although Western Bulldogs on-baller Jack Macrae has nominated the Saints after requesting a trade last week.

 

[Klaatu]

This again where the free agency thing is hurting clubs like St Kilda.

• Our players are timing their contracts to when their free agency is up then putting themselves on the market and leaving us.
  
  
• We have to take unnecessary risks with longer contracts to get them over the free agency hump.

Hope the AFL come good with a decent compensation model (alternatively a revised or abandoned scheme) or it will be happening year in year out with us.

It happens with all clubs regardless of were you sit on the ladder.


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[Fehring]

His body is struggling with the midfield so far. He seems to get injured when he plays there.

I hope that's not the case. He had 0, 0 and 7% CBAs in the last 3 games he played.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I didn't pick that year to try and prove anything , I just put into footywire same age and that's what it showed me , I didn't fact check it so yes maybe it isn't the best guide but i still stick my view that Max does not have a lot of body strength which others have also said and can be pushed aside easily , lets hope he can find the gym over summer and do something about it.

I now await that troll to come and give me me his customary LOL

I watched a few preseason sessions last summer & Max looked like he’d stacked on considerable muscle.

He actually started the season pretty well (Pies & Tigers).

I reckon the knee might have effected him more than many realise.


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[Saintos The ITK]

Hope we’re looking at Preusst

 

[g_TRAIN]

I watched a few preseason sessions last summer & Max looked like he’d stacked on considerable muscle.

He actually started the season pretty well (Pies & Tigers).

I reckon the knee might have effected him more than many realise.


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That and it looked like he lost his confidence and ability to read the drop of the ball.

When he was losing those 1v1s it was mostly because he was second to react rather than body strength.

He should be able to re-discover that ability with more continuity and confidence in his body.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep. Kennedy is bang average. Don't need another list clogger like that. Just give the minutes to mids that might actually end up being something.

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He's probably above average. Macrae makes the need for another mid go down but he's better than Seb Ross, Hunter Clark, Dow, Windhager (so far), Jones etc. He's probably just below Steele but less consistent but also in and out of position and often injured.

 

[Yawkey way]

We backed him in and he was good but ATM he’s looking like another no damage midfielder and was moved out of there before he got injured. You’re always going to need contest winners so I actually wouldn’t mind seeing him play forward next year.

Wins his own ball and has shut down some of the best players in the game, that’s a handy skill set. If you can take out Neale for example what’s that worth ? No different in my mind to a fullback keeping Cameron goalless. He’s also still developing and hopefully will become an attacking weapon as well.

 

[Max the great]

He's probably above average. Macrae makes the need for another mid go down but he's better than Seb Ross, Hunter Clark, Dow, Windhager (so far), Jones etc. He's probably just below Steele but less consistent but also in and out of position and often injured.

He's not better than Clark and Windy and Dow have the potential to be a s*** ton better than he is

 

[akaifu]

Lots of posts about the speed of our midfield. Ross has made it clear (through his actions) that Liam Henry will be given the chance to cement a spot in the centre square (if he gets a good preseason).

I don't think Henry will ever be a full-time midfielder, he's just too damaging and valuable forward of centre

He might attend 40% cbas but I'd say he'd always push forward with a half forward replacing him in stoppages (maybe a Windy-type). Similar role to Kozzy Pickett or Tom Papley

 

[FootyMaster11]

There's a point, if you increase the salary cap enough, where the lower clubs could amass such a war chest that players would move for money primarily rather than other considerations. Only then would the salary cap start to fully achieve it's objective: a pseudo talent cap. We've seen this happen only a couple of times: Gary Ablett and Tom Scully. The difference in contract offers was so great that the offer was too good to refuse. They left clubs for ones lower on the ladder.

TL;DR: AFL players need to be paid more.

I think they should remove the salary floor that clubs have to pay, whilst increasing the minimum wage.

This allows the clubs to not have to overpay for GOP players to hit the minimum amount, and also ensures that rookies, and other players can get paid well.

There is no way that a team like North should be paying the same total amount for players with the list that they have compared to teams like the Dogs, Carlton, Brisbane etc.

On a side note, I would also look at increasing Free agency compensation for deals that would be categorised as some of the biggest of all time. I have no idea what that looks like, but what comes to mind is Buddy Franklin. Signed a 10 year deal, was the best player in the AFL and they got pick 18 or something like that for him.

If a player is getting paid the highest amount in History, the club should be getting something more than a single first round pick, especially if on the open market they would command 3 first round picks. This would also help lower clubs who don't have to pay a salary floor to throw massive coin at the superstars, and they would be more likely to leave, if the other club was going to be getting more than a first-round pick.

 

[hangdog]

I think he’s definitely a decent footballer.

I’m not sure he’s been treated unfairly by Carlton though. He gets a game every week. His issue is though that the Blues have too many similar types and there are better mids ahead of him so he has to spend time in other positions.

He’d have the same issue with us I’d imagine and probably nearly every other club in the competition.

You need a point of difference in your midfield so unless you are elite as that one paced hall winner you are going to struggle to get a full game in the middle.

Kennedy is a pretty good overhead mark and can kick a goal. I'd have him for sure.

 

[gringo2011]

We could also draft 2 gun mids with out first 2 picks and let them develop instead of doing the classic St Kilda move of recruiting so-so mids from other teams in the hope that they'll magically make us better, but instead end up clogging our list. Kennedy isn't a bad player, but he doesn't add any real quality to our team.

They probably don't impact for 3 to 5 years so realistically we need both. We can't delay improvement for another 5 years. Careers will have come and gone in that time.

 

[hangdog]

You were right anyway about the marks.

45% of Max's marks are contested.
26% of Joe's are.
Max averages 1.96 CMs per game, compared to Joe's 1.5.

Playing devils advocate, we give King terrible service, so he HAS to take more contested marks.

 

[gringo2011]

There's a point, if you increase the salary cap enough, where the lower clubs could amass such a war chest that players would move for money primarily rather than other considerations. Only then would the salary cap start to fully achieve it's objective: a pseudo talent cap. We've seen this happen only a couple of times: Gary Ablett and Tom Scully. The difference in contract offers was so great that the offer was too good to refuse. They left clubs for ones lower on the ladder.

TL;DR: AFL players need to be paid more.

Clubs like North are tempted to gamble too. If they want a competitive bottom 4 they need clubs to stop selling assets for picks.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Question we should be asking around Kennedy is why are the Bluescum happy for him to have a look around?

If he is that good .... why isn't he getting played as a full time mid in a team that barely squeezed into the 8?

Bringing in one extra experienced inside mid to replace Crouch/Ross is enough and Macrae is a better player than Kennedy .... keep in mind that we need to give our young players more opportunities as well to develop

 

[gringo2011]

He's not better than Clark and Windy and Dow have the potential to be a s*** ton better than he is

I think he is. His first year at Carlton he played predominantly inside mid. He looked excellent, borderline A grade. Since being given less minutes he has dropped his numbers right back.

 

[gringo2011]

Question we should be asking around Kennedy is why are the Bluescum happy for him to have a look around?

If he is that good .... why isn't he getting played as a full time mid in a team that barely squeezed into the 8?

Bringing in one extra experienced inside mid to replace Crouch/Ross is enough and Macrae is a better player than Kennedy .... keep in mind that we need to give our young players more opportunities as well to develop

They have a slow inside brigade and no outside speed to off set it.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think Henry will ever be a full-time midfielder, he's just too damaging and valuable forward of centre

He might attend 40% cbas but I'd say he'd always push forward with a half forward replacing him in stoppages (maybe a Windy-type). Similar role to Kozzy Pickett or Tom Papley

I could see him becoming Hill's replacement. Played a good year on the wing last year.

 

[Max the great]

I think he is. His first year at Carlton he played predominantly inside mid. He looked excellent, borderline A grade. Since being given less minutes he has dropped his numbers right back.

Yer he's a low impact high numbers plodder. Definition of a list clogger. We don't need those types. He would hurt us more than help us.

 

[luca77]

Playing devils advocate, we give King terrible service, so he HAS to take more contested marks.

Then he's doing pretty well to be getting 1.92 goals per game, compared to Joe's 1.95!

 

[tomjoad]

I didn't pick that year to try and prove anything , I just put into footywire same age and that's what it showed me , I didn't fact check it so yes maybe it isn't the best guide but i still stick my view that Max does not have a lot of body strength which others have also said and can be pushed aside easily , lets hope he can find the gym over summer and do something about it.

I now await that troll to come and give me me his customary LOL

Just to be cheeky,
LOL

 

[ScrappyDo]

We backed him in and he was good but ATM he’s looking like another no damage midfielder and was moved out of there before he got injured. You’re always going to need contest winners so I actually wouldn’t mind seeing him play forward next year.

Wow.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I didn't pick that year to try and prove anything , I just put into footywire same age and that's what it showed me , I didn't fact check it so yes maybe it isn't the best guide but i still stick my view that Max does not have a lot of body strength which others have also said and can be pushed aside easily , lets hope he can find the gym over summer and do something about it.

I now await that troll to come and give me me his customary LOL

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Already want to delist Macrae with all the misspellings getting around