List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Silkie]

He has strong business interests off the field after partnering with Callum Wilkie on a freight venture.

A freight venture might be the most Callum Wilkie thing I've ever heard

 

[akaifu]

**** me I do all the heavy lifting in here.

Crouch future in balance as Saints consider another Shiel bid​

11:31 PM · Jul 5, 2024
Dylan Shiel is back on St Kilda’s radar after being the subject of trade interest last year, with the interest coming as Brad Crouch’s AFL future is under a serious cloud.
Crouch, 30, has played only one senior game (in Round 2) and five VFL matches this year due to ongoing knee pain, which kept him off the training track again on Tuesday.

Crouch has bravely tried to play on with heavy strapping around his left knee at times in the VFL this season, gathering 27, 31, 33 and 38 disposals for Sandringham in his appearances across May-June. But he has had trouble training over the past month and may be physically unable to play on at the top level next year, pending more medical checks and discussions with St Kilda officials.

Brad Crouch’s career is in doubt. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images

Crouch, who arrived as a free agent from Adelaide in 2020, has one more year to run on his five-year contract. But the lingering knee issue could force the workhorse to wind up his AFL career early as part of an agreement with the club at season’s end.

It comes as St Kilda weigh-up whether to make another play for Essendon onballer Dylan Shiel ahead of the Saints’ clash against the Bombers at Marvel Stadium on Saturday.

The Saints are expected to continue their aggressive list turnover this year in a bid to bring more top-line talent into the club. In particular, the Saints want to replenish the midfield brigade with some more explosive ball-winners over the next two years.

Dylan Shiel is back on St Kilda’s radar. Picture: Daniel Pockett/Getty Images

Shiel, 31, has made an encouraging return to AFL level averaging 25 disposals over his last three games, and would add another respected leader to the Saints’ core after meeting with him last year about a potential move.
The Bombers are facing a selection squeeze in the midfield with superstar Darcy Parish set to return from his latest soft tissue injury possibly through the VFL this weekend, while first-round picks Ben Hobbs and Elijah Tsatas also wait in the wings.

Shiel, 31, has shown he still has a nice burst despite ankle and foot trouble in recent years, and could help add some speed and power to the Saints’ setup for next year, with one more year remaining on his contract at Essendon.

Paddy Dow is set to return in round 20. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Saints’ midfielder Paddy Dow could make his return to AFL level for the clash against Essendon after a sizzling 32 disposals and 11 clearances in the VFL at the weekend to help replace injured playmaker Liam Henry.

Crouch’s predicament is a tough situation for a man who has become a popular team member and reliable midfielder at the Saints, playing at least 20 games in each of his first three seasons at Moorabbin. He finished fifth, sixth and sixth in St Kilda’s club champion awards in those campaigns after taking out Adelaide’s best and fairest in 2019.

Crouch has been lauded for his consistency and effort in the Saints’ on-ball department after returning home to Victoria in the middle of Covid-19.

This article contains features which are only available in the web versionTake me there
The Saints have thrown their full support behind the Ballarat product in a bid to try and overcome his knee issue following arthroscopic surgery on March 25.

He played his last game in the VFL on June 8 and hobbled from the training track midway through a session the following week in what could have been the final blow for the hard ball-winner. He has strong business interests off the field after partnering with Callum Wilkie on a freight venture.

The Saints are also at risk of losing gun defender Josh Battle to a big-money free agency offer from Hawthorn. Mobile marking forward Tim Membrey is also yet to sign a new deal after a brilliant five-goal haul in a thumping 72-point win over West Coast on Saturday.

Have heard from several people that Crouch won’t play again with the degenerative knee. Makes sense if he retires at the end of this year and we pay him out

 

[Premium]

BUt battle may not want to be part of the fabric. He is a free agent and he cand do what he wants.

It all depends if he is enjoying his surroundings , does he get along with the coach or assist coaches - does he want a change --- no one knows but him and I feel it strange he has not signed yet , considering we just resigned Hill.

 

[Saints4ever]

**** me I do all the heavy lifting in here.

Crouch future in balance as Saints consider another Shiel bid​

11:31 PM · Jul 5, 2024
Dylan Shiel is back on St Kilda’s radar after being the subject of trade interest last year, with the interest coming as Brad Crouch’s AFL future is under a serious cloud.
Crouch, 30, has played only one senior game (in Round 2) and five VFL matches this year due to ongoing knee pain, which kept him off the training track again on Tuesday.

Crouch has bravely tried to play on with heavy strapping around his left knee at times in the VFL this season, gathering 27, 31, 33 and 38 disposals for Sandringham in his appearances across May-June. But he has had trouble training over the past month and may be physically unable to play on at the top level next year, pending more medical checks and discussions with St Kilda officials.

Brad Crouch’s career is in doubt. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images

Crouch, who arrived as a free agent from Adelaide in 2020, has one more year to run on his five-year contract. But the lingering knee issue could force the workhorse to wind up his AFL career early as part of an agreement with the club at season’s end.

It comes as St Kilda weigh-up whether to make another play for Essendon onballer Dylan Shiel ahead of the Saints’ clash against the Bombers at Marvel Stadium on Saturday.

The Saints are expected to continue their aggressive list turnover this year in a bid to bring more top-line talent into the club. In particular, the Saints want to replenish the midfield brigade with some more explosive ball-winners over the next two years.

Dylan Shiel is back on St Kilda’s radar. Picture: Daniel Pockett/Getty Images

Shiel, 31, has made an encouraging return to AFL level averaging 25 disposals over his last three games, and would add another respected leader to the Saints’ core after meeting with him last year about a potential move.
The Bombers are facing a selection squeeze in the midfield with superstar Darcy Parish set to return from his latest soft tissue injury possibly through the VFL this weekend, while first-round picks Ben Hobbs and Elijah Tsatas also wait in the wings.

Shiel, 31, has shown he still has a nice burst despite ankle and foot trouble in recent years, and could help add some speed and power to the Saints’ setup for next year, with one more year remaining on his contract at Essendon.

Paddy Dow is set to return in round 20. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Saints’ midfielder Paddy Dow could make his return to AFL level for the clash against Essendon after a sizzling 32 disposals and 11 clearances in the VFL at the weekend to help replace injured playmaker Liam Henry.

Crouch’s predicament is a tough situation for a man who has become a popular team member and reliable midfielder at the Saints, playing at least 20 games in each of his first three seasons at Moorabbin. He finished fifth, sixth and sixth in St Kilda’s club champion awards in those campaigns after taking out Adelaide’s best and fairest in 2019.

Crouch has been lauded for his consistency and effort in the Saints’ on-ball department after returning home to Victoria in the middle of Covid-19.

This article contains features which are only available in the web versionTake me there
The Saints have thrown their full support behind the Ballarat product in a bid to try and overcome his knee issue following arthroscopic surgery on March 25.

He played his last game in the VFL on June 8 and hobbled from the training track midway through a session the following week in what could have been the final blow for the hard ball-winner. He has strong business interests off the field after partnering with Callum Wilkie on a freight venture.

The Saints are also at risk of losing gun defender Josh Battle to a big-money free agency offer from Hawthorn. Mobile marking forward Tim Membrey is also yet to sign a new deal after a brilliant five-goal haul in a thumping 72-point win over West Coast on Saturday.

Cheers cocko

 

[Gavinmitchell11]

Even on his form this year, Oliver would be in our best midfielders. If he came with Melbourne’s 1st this year I’d take all the salary he’s owed on.
But I’m a gambling man.

Melbourne fans are pretty delusional in what a trade would look like. They think Kane Cornes’ suggestion that he would be packaged along with 1st round picks and some of the salary still paid by Melbourne is ludicrous.

Hard to know the real situation with him outside of football and if he is on the mend in any way, hopefully it all works out.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Even on his form this year, Oliver would be in our best midfielders. If he came with Melbourne’s 1st this year I’d take all the salary he’s owed on.
But I’m a gambling man.

Melbourne fans are pretty delusional in what a trade would look like. They think Kane Cornes’ suggestion that he would be packaged along with 1st round picks and some of the salary still paid by Melbourne is ludicrous.

Hard to know the real situation with him outside of football and if he is on the mend in any way, hopefully it all works out.

Oliver's stats have looked good this year still but he's been a bit of a liability on the spread and defensively.

Couldn't have both him and Clark in the midfield that's for sure.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Wow I was hoping by some miracle Crouch could get going again, but it looks like miracles dont happen at our club. Its sad to see a player going so well have to give the game away with a chronic issues.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Oliver's stats have looked good this year still but he's been a bit of a liability on the spread and defensively.

Couldn't have both him and Clark in the midfield that's for sure.

His stats are ok, sometimes.
Very inconsistent.
In 2022 he had more than 400 contested possessions.
He's looking like he won't make 250 this year.

199 clearances 2022, probably not 100 this year.

We need the 2022 clarry, not this crap.

 

[akaifu]

I guess the positive side of Crouch’s potential departure is that it means we get to keep Hotton and Van Es a year longer

Hotton’s essentially in his first season after injury cruelled his debut year so too early to give up on him. Honestly he looks like a Brad Crouch

5

Brad Crouch

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.1

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.3

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.6

5star

successor now that I think about it - with a bit more polish and less accumulation

JVE one more year to prove his body can stand up to AFL. Mature body and looks like he could be a capable AFL full back. Otherwise Cole will overtake him in an instant and he’ll be done

 

[JG22]

Do crouch, Ross and Jones all go at years end? I believe Seb wants to stay, but we couldn’t resign him now. There’s definitely room for Shiel. We could well have 2 new top 7 pick midfielders to go with mattaes. They will need support.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I guess the positive side of Crouch’s potential departure is that it means we get to keep Hotton and Van Es a year longer

Hotton’s essentially in his first season after injury cruelled his debut year so too early to give up on him. Honestly he looks like a Brad Crouch successor now that I think about it - with a bit more polish and less accumulation

JVE one more year to prove his body can stand up to AFL. Mature body and looks like he could be a capable AFL full back. Otherwise Cole will overtake him in an instant and he’ll be done

Crouch wins clearances and contested ball, I haven't seen that at all from Hotton yet.
Not sure why they play him as a forward so much at Sandringham.

I'd rather see if we can get someone like Will Brodie, than a broken down stopgap like Shiel.

 

[stfan]

Lets not even talk about how easily Hawthorn got a match winner like Ginnivan.

Collingwood gets: 33, Haw's F2 + Haw's F3
Hawthorn gets: Ginnivan, 39, Coll's F2 + Coll's F4

With it now looking like the Hawks will finish several places above Collingwood that deal is looking to be exceptional trading by the Hawks.

 

[Saint Shags]

Unless you expect Shiel to be best 22 he isn't worth it. The idea would be as of next year the core that is there will be another year older and then potentially whoever we pick up in the draft.

Oliver way too many issues. We aren't talking just Dusty like trouble. He has some serious issues that could see him last 6 years to 1 week in the game. That type of influence around the players not needed. If you could guarantee him getting back on track then yes. But that's a bloody big IF.
The cost for both would be too much.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Do crouch, Ross and Jones all go at years end? I believe Seb wants to stay, but we couldn’t resign him now. There’s definitely room for Shiel. We could well have 2 new top 7 pick midfielders to go with mattaes. They will need support.

If all 3 depart we are seriously going to need some other mature bodies to help out the kids. Crouch will get an arranged pay out but there will be a few $$$ to spend cap wise. If his body is sound getting Sheils in makes sense, but so will chasing other mature midfield types, like Luke Parker & Jack McRae remembering we will have two years drafts picks to play with.

Other possible midfield names who could come cheaply would be - James Peatling GWS, Riley Garcia WB, Alex Davies GCS, Mitch Hardie Geelong all AFL listed or Jacob Dawson or Boyd Woodcock South Port, Dominic Brew Werribee, Kobe Ryan West Adelaide, Dean-Luc Vellissaris Bullants.

 

[akaifu]

Crouch wins clearances and contested ball, I haven't seen that at all from Hotton yet.
Not sure why they play him as a forward so much at Sandringham.

I'd rather see if we can get someone like Will Brodie, than a broken down stopgap like Shiel.

Neither, they need to play him full time mid for him to develop properly

Brodie is just such a liability defensively theres no way we go after him. No surprise since the game became faster, Brodie has lost his spot at Freo

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Unless you expect Shiel to be best 22 he isn't worth it. The idea would be as of next year the core that is there will be another year older and then potentially whoever we pick up in the draft.

Oliver way too many issues. We aren't talking just Dusty like trouble. He has some serious issues that could see him last 6 years to 1 week in the game. That type of influence around the players not needed. If you could guarantee him getting back on track then yes. But that's a bloody big IF.
The cost for both would be too much.

Without speaking out of school, I hope if the club is even considering this, that they have all the relevant medical information. I have genuine sympathy for Clayton. I’m not sure a new environment can/will solve his problems.

And if the saints were even considering it, you wouldn’t do it with getting a 1st round pick. After all this is solving a problem for Melbourne. And the saints would have to be considering the potential he doesn’t get on the park.

Lastly, if the club is looking at it surely they are working out a way to heavily front end the contract to burn 2/3 of the contact in the first couple of years.

 

[BrutThough]

If all 3 depart we are seriously going to need some other mature bodies to help out the kids. Crouch will get an arranged pay out but there will be a few $$$ to spend cap wise. If his body is sound getting Sheils in makes sense, but so will chasing other mature midfield types, like Luke Parker & Jack McRae remembering we will have two years drafts picks to play with.

Other possible midfield names who could come cheaply would be - James Peatling GWS, Riley Garcia WB, Alex Davies GCS, Mitch Hardie Geelong all AFL listed or Jacob Dawson or Boyd Woodcock South Port, Dominic Brew Werribee, Kobe Ryan West Adelaide, Dean-Luc Vellissaris Bullants.

Not just the kids. To help Steele - it's not fair to him to send him out for another season without someone to help share the load.

 

[Longmembrey]

If Battle leaves, whatever we get, we won't be as good in Round 1 2025 as if we still had Battle.

Unless we use the pick and the money saved to trade for an established midfielder of course

 

[Premium]

Not just the kids. To help Steele - it's not fair to him to send him out for another season without someone to help share the load.

Crouch had been one of our best players since he was pick up and not having him this year has really effected our performance - it has to be remembered the last 2 years Steele had been no where near his best - in saying this we hopefully sign or are into a good midfielder who can lead our kids and help Steele out.

I don't want to see a Shiel or Parker recruited because they are finished , it has to be someone who can come in a perform - a LDU or even Oliver would be better than nothing.
I'd even take Petracca knowing he most probably wants out of the club.
But all this guys are on stupid huge contracts and the Demons would have to take some of the wage they are giving them.

People saying we need experience is well and good but they have to be capable of playing still at the top level.

For instance a see in the media all the talk about Dustin Martin - to me he is in the same boat as Membery , he can have a outstanding game but is not seen for the next 6 - we need someone who has a future for the club and gets rolling in the right direction.

With all the talk of the war chest we have and having Sos and Gubby there is no reason we can't pluck someone who can perform in the midfield.

Another Dow type is not going to cut it.

 

[akaifu]

Crouch had been one of our best players since he was pick up and not having him this year has really effected our performance - it has to be remembered the last 2 years Steele had been no where near his best - in saying this we hopefully sign or are into a good midfielder who can lead our kids and help Steele out.

I don't want to see a Shiel or Parker recruited because they are finished , it has to be someone who can come in a perform - a LDU or even Oliver would be better than nothing.
I'd even take Petracca knowing he most probably wants out of the club.
But all this guys are on stupid huge contracts and the Demons would have to take some of the wage they are giving them.

People saying we need experience is well and good but they have to be capable of playing still at the top level.

For instance a see in the media all the talk about Dustin Martin - to me he is in the same boat as Membery , he can have a outstanding game but is not seen for the next 6 - we need someone who has a future for the club and gets rolling in the right direction.

With all the talk of the war chest we have and having Sos and Gubby there is no reason we can't pluck someone who can perform in the midfield.

Another Dow type is not going to cut it.

You act as if we can just pluck an A-grade midfielder out of the clouds. The reality is that no one of that calibre wants to come to St Kilda unless they are pushed by their club or if we pay significant overs

 

[Premium]

If Battle leaves, whatever we get, we won't be as good in Round 1 2025 as if we still had Battle.

Battle can be still playing good football in 5 yrs and he is a player you slot into the team and forget about him because you know he will do the job and he is 3 years younger than Wilkie.
We lose him it will be not imo , if he can draw a good midfielder fair enough but just a draft pick to me is a danger knowing how well we have drafted top picks in the past - Billings , Coffield , Clark , McCartin.

You act as if we can just pluck an A-grade midfielder out of the clouds. The reality is that no one of that calibre wants to come to St Kilda unless they are pushed by their club or if we pay significant overs

they have had enough time to get in the ear of someone , we got Crouch in front of the Cats so there is no reason we can't poach someone.
Also we have the money to do it.

 

[akaifu]

Battle can be still playing good football in 5 yrs and he is a player you slot into the team and forget about him because you know he will do the job and he is 3 years younger than Wilkie.
We lose him it will be not imo , if he can draw a good midfielder fair enough but just a draft pick to me is a danger knowing how well we have drafted top picks in the past - Billings , Coffield , Clark , McCartin.

they have had enough time to get in the ear of someone , we got Crouch in front of the Cats so there is no reason we can't poach someone.
Also we have the money to do it.

They got in the ear of Hugh McCluggage, Tyson Stengle, LDU. Do any of them want to come? No. All of them turned down or will probably turn down bigger offers from us to remain at their clubs. What do you want anyone to do about that?

 

[moirae42]

Collingwood gets: 33, Haw's F2 + Haw's F3
Hawthorn gets: Ginnivan, 39, Coll's F2 + Coll's F4

With it now looking like the Hawks will finish several places above Collingwood that deal is looking to be exceptional trading by the Hawks.

Absolute out thinking themselves by the Filth.

 

[TheJackal]

What am I jesting about?


The fact he has some serious off field issues and that if we woke up tomorrow he could be dead and no one would be surprised?

Or the fact that he is owed 1.1m for each year of his remaining contract and with everything else surrounding Oliver that if we took that on I’d want draft compensation for the risk?

If we were given Melbourne's first and took on Oliver's contract, then the outcome of your second paragraph would be quite the deal.

But really... he didn't have a preseason, he has been cooked (literally) - but a fully fit (free) Oliver with a point to prove is a much better proposition that Dylan bloody Shiel coming to us for a retirement package.

 

[TheJackal]

I'll preface this by saying I've loved Crouch and there were more factors at play at the time (such as draft capital and managers playing funny buggers).

BUT, Crouch vs Caldwell now seems like a bit of a short term fix mistake. Crouch came with an injury history who finally came good, but was always going to give us less years and now Caldwell seems to have come good.