USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris

[Chief]

Continued in Part 2

USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

Continued from Part 1 - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-us-presidential-election-trump-vs-harris.1383317/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Can we honestly say that the debate really changed anyone's minds? It's very likely Americans are already decided on who they're going to vote, Trumps supporters are going to believe what he says, Democrats are going to vote for Harris anyway, the most it would have is change the midns of like 60,000 people in inconsequencial states who weren't planning to vote that day going "Eh, might as well"

It's all for show, I do think Harris going for the "Trump is insane" card is the right play, because you can't really deny it, some of the shit he says is funny but it's just starting to become tiring.

I heard a US correspondent on ABC radio the other day, forget what news outlet he was from, and he said his organisation used a polling company whose results rarely shifted, as they found this to be the most trustworthy source.

He said Trump and Biden were always neck and neck or Trump ahead by a percentage point or two at max.

When Biden made way for Harris things barely changed.

They were expecting nothing would change after the debate, because historically, debates rarely have any marked effect on polling, specially this poll.

Soon after the debate, Harris was showing a 5% lead.

He stressed that a lot can happen between now and November, and US polling is never much use on the electoral college question, but said it was completely unprecedented.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Trump is the big fascist they tell you. The right are dangerous, they won't accept the result. If he wins democracy is at stake.

All fear, no substance. Trump is the peace candidate.

The Democrats and the left loot when things go their way. Remember CHAZ. BLM. Tearing down statues, rioting and looting.

They cry about democracy then go into a petty rage when results don't go their way.

LOL talk about false equivalence.

Civil unrest, ugly as it may be, is not the same as refusing to accept a democratic result on the basis of zero evidence.

Pulling down a statue is not the same as forcibly invading a nation’s seat of government and threatening to hang the former vice president of that nation.

You have completely lost the plot.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

How can socialism succeed in the US when they’ve mostly been raised on the frontier, rugged individualism ideal & seem to see basic social safety net stuff as evil/communist?

It’s a hard sell.

Hey man, think big!

 

[Gough]

LOL talk about false equivalence.

Civil unrest, ugly as it may be, is not the same as refusing to accept a democratic result on the basis of zero evidence.

Pulling down a statue is not the same as forcibly invading a nation’s seat of government and threatening to hang the former vice president of that nation.

You have completely lost the plot.

False equivalences have been a MAGA mainstay, they don't want to do any of this they've been forced to by the radical left. They're so pathetic they can't even own their own hate, it's always someone else's fault.

 

[Seeds]

Yes the US made Russia declare war on Ukraine, somehow.

Kyle Kulinksi was saying today you get some weird anarchists/far leftists who are basically inverted neo cons.

While the neo cons think US and allies are always good and right, and all others = bad, the inverted neo-cons see all US enemies as good, and US and its allies as always bad.

Both positions are very dense. The correct answer is you take everything on its merits. US is wrong to fund Israel to high heaven no matter whatever atrocities they do, but right to help Ukraine who were invaded by a foreign power.

If you are ideologically consistent, it’s not too hard to have a coherent view.

That response doesnt answer the question. You said the democrats want to escalate the war in ukraine? What do you mean by that and why is that a bad thing?

 

[Nikita Blue]

Yikes, Walz v Vance will be a bloodbath. The attacks on Walz write themselves: repeated instances of stolen valour. Tampons in boys rooms. Lying about his experience with IVF. Lying about carrying weapons of war in a war zone. Lying about being busted driving 40MPH over the speed limit with a BAC of 1.28. Lying about his rank. Having a missus who publicly announced her enjoyment of the smell of burning tires during deadly riots. If you made a person by combining the worst traits of Biden and Trump, Walz is what you get.

Versus Vance, a self made millenial with zero scandals (to the point that one had to be fabricated, the couch thing).

Can someone please explain to me why such a flawed and dishonest candidate (Walz) from a safe state was chosen over J Shapiro - the popular governor of likely the most important state in the election? Go on... you know the reason... say it!!

Yeah no scandals for Vance except for when he deliberately lied about a group of people, riled up his base, and sat back while his own constituents were demonised and threatened.

 

[Gethelred]

View attachment 2120889
Tim Waltz is more popular than Taylor Swift.

Also note ideas about ‘anti-capitalist’ sentiment in the US are not backed by any data. +26 vs -37

Where is that taken from?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

He is putrid.

FMD the testimony from the father of the boy who died in the car accident is heartbreaking.

To suffer the tragic loss of a child, and then see this Vance PoS grotesquely lie about it for political gain.

Sort of behaviour you'd expect from a desperate smack addict.

About the only possible excuse I can find for that slimeball Vance is if he's being debased by the mother of all drug habits.

Because no self-respecting human being would do that sort of thing.

Wow that has ruined my morning.

 

[IlovethePies]

The rise of Hitler in 1933 wasnt about Stalinist Communists not getting out to vote - it was a direct result of the policies of the Allies and the effect reparations had on the German people

The rise in inflation, the disenfranchisement of the people in the Weimar Republic and the rise of a charismatic speaker who blamed the Jews and the current regime - where have I heard this before? - and managed to use peoples disaffection to gain sheeple

I see strong similarities in the Rise of Hitler and the Rise of Trump - even down to the language

 

[Gough]

I'm not sure there's any better explanation for Trump now than he allows people to be the worst versions of themselves and they like that. People who vote for him don't want their own lives to get better, they want other people to suffer.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I'm not sure there's any better explanation for Trump now than he allows people to be the worst versions of themselves and they like that. People who vote for him don't want their own lives to get better, they want other people to suffer.

A wise man once said "Comparison is the thief of joy". Something those very people you reference should contemplate.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I'm not sure there's any better explanation for Trump now than he allows people to be the worst versions of themselves and they like that. People who vote for him don't want their own lives to get better, they want other people to suffer.

Really starting to look like that, isn't it?

 

[IlovethePies]

The rise of Hitler in 1933 wasnt about Stalinist Communists not getting out to vote - it was a direct result of the policies of the Allies and the effect reparations had on the German people

The rise in inflation, the disenfranchisement of the people in the Weimar Republic and the rise of a charismatic speaker who blamed the Jews and the current regime - where have I heard this before? - and managed to use peoples disaffection to gain sheeple

I see strong similarities in the Rise of Hitler and the Rise of Trump - even down to the language

Definitely true that there are strong parallels between Hitler and Trump. Trump is an open admirer of Hitler.
But you are missing a key point in your analysis above. Fascism does not triumph merely because people are stupid/sheep. It triumphs only after the working class suffers a major defeat. Desperate middle class layers ruined by the economic crisis in Germany were searching for radical solutions. If the working class had come forward, led by a revolutionary party of the same kind as the Bolsheviks, with a program to abolish capitalism and place all social wealth under the democratic control of the working class, the desperate layers who ultimately turned to fascism would instead have joined the fight for socialism. Fascism is the politics of despair, and it can only take hold if the working class cannot advance its program. In Germany, it was the cowardice of the leadership of the KPD (German Communist party),acting under the criminal instructions of Stalin, which prevented the working class from confidently advancing a clear program that would have given the bankrupted layers of the middle and lower middle class hope, and convinced them to throw in their lot with the fight for socialism. Instead, the working class was split, -sometines Communist workers were fighting Social Democratic workers- and could offer no clear plan out of the economic crisis. This was the only reason why Hitler could gain traction. The same reasons today account for whatever popularity Trump has. The working class in the US does not have in its leadership a revolutionary party. Instead, the AFL-CIO trade union leadership, in alliance with the Democrats, is still managing to betray working class struggles and politically demobilise the working class. Therefore, the only way to stop Trump is not by voting for Harris, but instead by fighting to build the revolutionary party if the working class.

 

[bourbons]

You missed me saying he had to go after the debate and me wanting him gone before the debate?

Same. Quite a few posters of that mind from memory.

 

[Satan]

nc republicans running for cover

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/24/politics/mark-robinson-republicans-fleeing/index.html

 

[bourbons]

Isnt it funny how these things always favor the left?

Reality has a left wing bias

 

[bourbons]

Yikes, Walz v Vance will be a bloodbath. The attacks on Walz write themselves: repeated instances of stolen valour. Tampons in boys rooms. Lying about his experience with IVF. Lying about carrying weapons of war in a war zone. Lying about being busted driving 40MPH over the speed limit with a BAC of 1.28. Lying about his rank. Having a missus who publicly announced her enjoyment of the smell of burning tires during deadly riots. If you made a person by combining the worst traits of Biden and Trump, Walz is what you get.

Ahh, the big issues then

Bookmarked.

Can someone please explain to me why such a flawed and dishonest candidate (Walz) from a safe state was chosen over J Shapiro - the popular governor of likely the most important state in the election? Go on... you know the reason... say it!!

Ha, still m8? Already schooled you once on this, I do hope this doesn't turn into drone wars version 2!

I'm guessing a pretty big factor might be that they preferred to avoid a running mate with as many skeletons in the closet as Shapiro appears to have - may have literally been involved in the cover-up of a murder, signing off on a death by 20 stab wounds being ruled a suicide. Even the Clintons would blush at that one lol. But sure, Walz put tampons in bathrooms and drunk drove once

Maybe look to lower the intake of kool aid from the right wing griftosphere m8.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Ahh, the big issues then

Bookmarked.


Ha, still m8? Already schooled you once on this, I do hope this doesn't turn into drone wars version 2!

I'm guessing a pretty big factor might be that they preferred to avoid a running mate with as many skeletons in the closet as Shapiro appears to have - may have literally been involved in the cover-up of a murder, signing off on a death by 20 stab wounds being ruled a suicide. Even the Clintons would blush at that one lol. But sure, Walz put tampons in bathrooms and drunk drove once

Maybe look to lower the intake of kool aid from the right wing griftosphere m8.

All you needed to post in response to the attacks on Walz are:

 

[GreyCrow]

Definitely true that there are strong parallels between Hitler and Trump. Trump is an open admirer of Hitler.
But you are missing a key point in your analysis above. Fascism does not triumph merely because people are stupid/sheep. It triumphs only after the working class suffers a major defeat. Desperate middle class layers ruined by the economic crisis in Germany were searching for radical solutions. If the working class had come forward, led by a revolutionary party of the same kind as the Bolsheviks, with a program to abolish capitalism and place all social wealth under the democratic control of the working class, the desperate layers who ultimately turned to fascism would instead have joined the fight for socialism. Fascism is the politics of despair, and it can only take hold if the working class cannot advance its program. In Germany, it was the cowardice of the leadership of the KPD (German Communist party),acting under the criminal instructions of Stalin, which prevented the working class from confidently advancing a clear program that would have given the bankrupted layers of the middle and lower middle class hope, and convinced them to throw in their lot with the fight for socialism. Instead, the working class was split, -sometines Communist workers were fighting Social Democratic workers- and could offer no clear plan out of the economic crisis. This was the only reason why Hitler could gain traction. The same reasons today account for whatever popularity Trump has. The working class in the US does not have in its leadership a revolutionary party. Instead, the AFL-CIO trade union leadership, in alliance with the Democrats, is still managing to betray working class struggles and politically demobilise the working class. Therefore, the only way to stop Trump is not by voting for Harris, but instead by fighting to build the revolutionary party if the working class.

1. Paragraphs are your friend

2. Germany was not ready for Socialism/Communism. They rejected it because the Red Party was led by Jews - the same Jews Hitler demonised

They were running last in any measure

 

[IlovethePies]

1. Paragraphs are your friend

2. Germany was not ready for Socialism/Communism. They rejected it because the Red Party was led by Jews - the same Jews Hitler demonised

They were running last in any measure

Point 1 - true.
Point 2 - utterly false. You won't get anywhere until you criticise this retrograde belief - because that is all it is.

 

[GreyCrow]

Point 1 - true.
Point 2 - utterly false. You won't get anywhere until you criticise this retrograde belief - because that is all it is.

You can say its false as much as you want. Doesnt make it less true

 

[IlovethePies]

You can say its false as much as you want. Doesnt make it less true

But in this case, it remains false. That is where it ends.
That is where I end this "argument" because, until you address your false beliefs about how fascism develops and how revolution develops, there is no point in continuing the conversation.

 

[Maggie5]

All you needed to post in response to the attacks on Walz are:

View attachment 2121092

View attachment 2121091

Vance wants to be Trump mark 2.

Doubt that Republicans will stick with him if Trump loses.

 

[IlovethePies]

Vance wants to be Trump mark 2.

Doubt that Republicans will stick with him if Trump loses.

...assuming there is another election after this one....

 

[Maggie5]

...assuming there is another election after this one....

Do you now what it takes to change the Constitution?